Carlos Beltran clears waivers.

[batmagadanleadoff]

http://www.sportingnews.com/mlb/article/2010-08-10/mets-beltran-available-for-trade-after-clearing-waivers

[ashie62]

Very Interesting.I doubt antone will take Beltran's salary. Carlos looks pretty retirement like.

[Benjamin Grimm]

To further complicate things, he's ten-and-five, so he'd also have to agree to any trade.

[metirish]

And complicating things even further is that he looks rubbish out there in center , not the elite player he once was.

I'm having a closed door meeting with Jerry today.

[Ceetar]

metirish wrote: And complicating things even further is that he looks rubbish out there in center , not the elite player he once was. I'm having a closed door meeting with Jerry today.

Isn't everyone? i thought that was included in the price of a ticket these days.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

As I said before, I'd have taken a relief pitcher for him just for the salary break. We should also trade K-Rod before it's too late, although it probably was the day we signed him.

I could see Beltran on the MFYs.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Of course he cleared waivers.

[Guest The Second Spitter]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I could see Beltran on the MFYs.

I don't think I could live with that.

[Ceetar]

The Second Spitter wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I could see Beltran on the MFYs. I don't think I could live with that.

Unless he undoubtedly needed to have microfracture, like tomorrow, but I like Carlos and don't actually want him to have to go through that. Or have to deal with those guys. He'd miss David and Jose so much that at the next Subway Series game Michael Kay would be flipping out when Carlos spends too much time socializing across the diamond.

Beltran will play, he'll start hitting. he'll stay a Met through his contract. Don't see him getting traded now.

[Frayed Knot]

"Very Interesting"

- I think the interesting part would have been if he DIDN'T clear waivers




"I doubt anyone will take Beltran's salary."

- That no one took him is pretty much the definition of no one willing to take on the salary.




"To further complicate things, he's ten-and-five, so he'd also have to agree to any trade."

- He already had a full no-trade clause in his contract so that snag always existed.

[Willets Point]

Isn't it a bit early to give up on Beltran when he just came back from a lengthy spell on the DL? Granted he could be in permanent decline, but I think he could still bounce back to being a productive player.

[Ceetar]

Willets Point wrote: Isn't it a bit early to give up on Beltran when he just came back from a lengthy spell on the DL? Granted he could be in permanent decline, but I think he could still bounce back to being a productive player.

Definitely too early, and the brace is an unquantifiable quality. I don't think 20 games back from a long layoff is enough data for any rash decisions. There is, I suppose, hope that the bruise heals in the offseason as well and he doesn't need the brace next year.

[seawolf17]

I wish we could revive George Steinbrenner just long enough to trade him Beltran and Frankie for Curtis Granderson and a few prospects.

[TransMonk]

I like that the Mets are exploring possibilities.

$18.5 Mil is a lot of dough in 2011, even if we get 2006 Beltran...which is unlikely.

[Gwreck]

$18.5 is a fair price (if not a bargain) for 2006 Beltran.

The thing about Beltran is that he managed to put up a .915 OPS in his 357 plate appearances (81 games) last year, while his knee was bothering him so much that it required extensive DL time and then surgery.

I get that he's been crap at the plate so far but he also has only been back a month after being out a year. I find it very strange how quickly everybody is to give up on him.

If somebody really wants to take the salary, fine. But do we think that clearing the $18.5 M from the 2011 payroll (only) will open the Mets up to signing a free agent in the offseason? If so -- who would be better?

[smg58]

We have lots of reasons to root for Beltran to return to some semblance of form, and only some of them have to do with next year. That being said, I think the Mets need Angel Pagan to be their starting centerfielder in 2011.

[TransMonk]

This team is a mess. The talent is suspect, the game management is laughable and I'm much closer to believing the Wilpon's financial woes are more true than false. Factoring in some of the horrible contracts that are on the books, things may have to get worse before they get better.

Earlier this season, I thought this season could be the prelude to bigger things. I now believe it may be the epilogue to the disasters of 2007, 2008 and 2009. It is not all doom and gloom, however. I feel the farm system is deep and that the performances of some of the youngsters will provide youthful and cheap talent for the next few years.

For the first time in a long time (maybe ever), I am actively rooting for the Mets to clear some payroll and NOT sign a free agent. I am not giving up on Beltran, as I believe given time to get up to game speed over a full season that he still has the talent to produce. I have given up on this team, though. For a team like the Mets that is filled with bloated contracts, $18.5 million and "bargain" cannot be shared in the same sentence.

IMO, it's time to cut and run. Take what we can get by moving the heavy contracts and go forward. I like Beltran, but if another team wants to give us a young part or take on some salary, I'd have to consider it.

[Gwreck]

TransMonk wrote: For the first time in a long time (maybe ever), I am actively rooting for the Mets to clear some payroll and NOT sign a free agent.

I have a hard time understanding this. The reason one dumps salary is to clear budget room to get other players instead, right?

I get that Beltran is overpaid at this point. But why the need to dump his salary if the money isn't being used elsewhere? The concern is the Wilpon's checkbook? That ticket prices might go down if the Mets don't have to spend $18.5 M on Beltran?

[Guest Edgy DC]

TransMonk wrote: This team is a mess. The talent is suspect, the game management is laughable and I'm much closer to believing the Wilpon's financial woes are more true than false. Factoring in some of the horrible contracts that are on the books, things may have to get worse before they get better. Earlier this season, I thought this season could be the prelude to bigger things. I now believe it may be the epilogue to the disasters of 2007, 2008 and 2009. It is not all doom and gloom, however. I feel the farm system is deep and that the performances of some of the youngsters will provide youthful and cheap talent for the next few years. For the first time in a long time (maybe ever), I am actively rooting for the Mets to clear some payroll and NOT sign a free agent. I am not giving up on Beltran, as I believe given time to get up to game speed over a full season that he still has the talent to produce. I have given up on this team, though. For a team like the Mets that is filled with bloated contracts, $18.5 million and "bargain" cannot be shared in the same sentence. IMO, it's time to cut and run. Take what we can get by moving the heavy contracts and go forward. I like Beltran, but if another team wants to give us a young part or take on some salary, I'd have to consider it.

I agree that the game management is bad. Oh, I believe. But all talent is suspect, and the Mets' talent is less suspect han most. The team payroll remains among the highest in MLB.

I also don't think 2007, 2008, 1nd 2009 can be fairly characterized as disasters. Two stretch-run failures and an injury-filled third year don't indicate a system-wide problem.

I think a good manager and a re-assessment of the offensive approach can go a long way.

[TransMonk]

I guess "cut salary" was a poor choice of words. I only mean to trim the fat. Beltran may or may not be worth his 2011 salary. Castillo and Ollie most certainly won't. That's 3 players making a total of about 35 million dollars, or over a quarter of the total payroll. I don't envision the payroll growing anytime soon.

I believe whatever financial plan this team has is flawed. Either ownership has their head in the sand about it or they are trying to keep it as a secret. Before I see an offensive approach or a good manager, I would be happy with ownership just admitting there is a problem.

[batmagadanleadoff]

smg58 wrote: ... That being said, I think the Mets need Angel Pagan to be their starting centerfielder in 2011.

I hope not. Angel Pagan should be platooned. He sucks as a right handed batter. Sucks.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Well, Beltran, Perez, and Castillo all come off the books after the 2011 season. That should afford quite a bit of flexibility, if not sooner then later.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Just a thought: I wonder if Mets management would be quite as willing to trade him if he hadn't implicitly questioned their handling of his knee situation.

That said, even if Carlos Beltran were to suddenly reachieve 2006 batting form, make catches while scaling walls and climbing Tal's Hill (even on days when the Mets aren't playing Houston), and study accounting in November, subsequently figuring out how to adjust the Mets' finances so as to allow the team to sign Cliff Lee AND Darrelle Revis next offseason... they're not going to be able to move him for anything but a C or D prospect unless they eat most/all of his remaining contract. It's a different game than it useta be.

Me, I'm simply rooting for glimpses of the old 'Los, because they make me smile, and I don't think it's terribly realistic to expect much more.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Let's be fair here. Virtually all players signed to big long-term contracts aren't "worth it" by the end of the contract. You hope you get as much value as possible in the front end, stave off decline as long as possible, and know that eventually you'll be getting a fraction of the value of the money you're paying him --- knowing full well that he'll be getting increasingly hard to unload without sending cash with him. Why would a team take on the back end of a contract when they didn't enjoy the benefits of the front end? You just hope for (and work for) a few quarters on the dollar or come to accept the nickles on the dollar that you'll get in a trade, once money is exchanged, and no-trade clauses are worked around.

I think perspective would take a lot further than a rush to dump.

[ashie62]

Edgy DC wrote: TransMonk wrote: This team is a mess. The talent is suspect, the game management is laughable and I'm much closer to believing the Wilpon's financial woes are more true than false. Factoring in some of the horrible contracts that are on the books, things may have to get worse before they get better. Earlier this season, I thought this season could be the prelude to bigger things. I now believe it may be the epilogue to the disasters of 2007, 2008 and 2009. It is not all doom and gloom, however. I feel the farm system is deep and that the performances of some of the youngsters will provide youthful and cheap talent for the next few years. For the first time in a long time (maybe ever), I am actively rooting for the Mets to clear some payroll and NOT sign a free agent. I am not giving up on Beltran, as I believe given time to get up to game speed over a full season that he still has the talent to produce. I have given up on this team, though. For a team like the Mets that is filled with bloated contracts, $18.5 million and "bargain" cannot be shared in the same sentence. IMO, it's time to cut and run. Take what we can get by moving the heavy contracts and go forward. I like Beltran, but if another team wants to give us a young part or take on some salary, I'd have to consider it. I agree that the game management is bad. Oh, I believe. But all talent is suspect, and the Mets' talent is less suspect han most. The team payroll remains among the highest in MLB. I also don't think 2007, 2008, 1nd 2009 can be fairly characterized as disasters. Two stretch-run failures and an injury-filled third year don't indicate a system-wide problem. I think a good manager and a re-assessment of the offensive approach can go a long way.

If the 2007 & 2008 collapses are not disasters what would you call them? just curious.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Ashie62 wrote: Edgy DC wrote: TransMonk wrote: This team is a mess. The talent is suspect, the game management is laughable and I'm much closer to believing the Wilpon's financial woes are more true than false. Factoring in some of the horrible contracts that are on the books, things may have to get worse before they get better. Earlier this season, I thought this season could be the prelude to bigger things. I now believe it may be the epilogue to the disasters of 2007, 2008 and 2009. It is not all doom and gloom, however. I feel the farm system is deep and that the performances of some of the youngsters will provide youthful and cheap talent for the next few years. For the first time in a long time (maybe ever), I am actively rooting for the Mets to clear some payroll and NOT sign a free agent. I am not giving up on Beltran, as I believe given time to get up to game speed over a full season that he still has the talent to produce. I have given up on this team, though. For a team like the Mets that is filled with bloated contracts, $18.5 million and "bargain" cannot be shared in the same sentence. IMO, it's time to cut and run. Take what we can get by moving the heavy contracts and go forward. I like Beltran, but if another team wants to give us a young part or take on some salary, I'd have to consider it. I agree that the game management is bad. Oh, I believe. But all talent is suspect, and the Mets' talent is less suspect han most. The team payroll remains among the highest in MLB. I also don't think 2007, 2008, 1nd 2009 can be fairly characterized as disasters. Two stretch-run failures and an injury-filled third year don't indicate a system-wide problem. I think a good manager and a re-assessment of the offensive approach can go a long way. If the 2007 & 2008 collapses are not disasters what would you call them? just curious.

I'd call it bad luck. I do call it bad luck. No one's ever convinced me that the 2007 and 2008 Phillies were any better than their Mets rivals.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I call it two stretch-run failures. You can call the last month or so of each season a disaster, but the neither season is correctly charactarized as a whole that way.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Edgy DC wrote: I call it two stretch-run failures. You can call the last month or so of each season a disaster, but the neither season is correctly charactarized as a whole that way.

The Mets failed in September. But the Mets and Phils were separated by four games in the standings over two seasons combined. So the Phils had to have failed somewhere else. Those two teams were very evenly matched. And that's my point.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Well, I was responding the prior post, which was directed at me, and not disputing you at all.

[Frayed Knot]

... I only mean to trim the fat. Beltran may or may not be worth his 2011 salary. Castillo and Ollie most certainly won't. That's 3 players making a total of about 35 million dollars, or over a quarter of the total payroll.

But there's a difference between players who don't play as well as their contracts suggest they should and ones who aren't contributing to the team at all (Ollie) or just barely are (Catillo).
I'm willing to bet that Beltran has some baseball still left in him and that 20 games or so off a lengthy DL stint has yet settled the outcome (and if it did we should have dumped Reyes in May). If he shows he can't hnadle CF anymore (again, I don't think that's settled yet) then I'm all for moving him to a corner, and if he plays like a $5mil player then he's being overpaid; I think we/they can deal with that.

The thing is, if he doesn't snap out of it and is done for good then he's not tradable for anything anyway, and if he's not totally shot then I'm not really anxious to trade him.