Oliver Perez is an asshole

[ashie62]

Waiter, Check please!

[smg58]

G-Fafif wrote: Rockin' Doc wrote: Perez is quickly becoming one of my alltime least favorite Mets. Though, even he has a ways to go to catch Vince Coleman for the crown of biggest jerk I wish wasn't on the Mets. Ollie's saving grace is that if he tossed firecrackers at fans in the parking lot, he wouldn't come close to blowing them up.

He'd blow up his own car.

[smg58]

The options are to give him a serious opportunity to make a role for himself in the pen and then drop him if he fails, or just cut the crap and drop him now. Keeping him in limbo is a luxury the Mets can't afford.

[batmagadanleadoff]

I hope that in the end, Ollie reconsiders and accepts some other assignment within the Mets organization -- and very soon. The shame of it is that Ollie's averaging 7.25 strikeouts per nine innings this season. Anyone that can strikeout major league hitters at that rate has the stuff to be a very effective pitcher at the highest level. Someone needs to fix Ollie, and test him against live batters in game situations, just not NY Mets games.

[ashie62]

Sell Ollie to the Japan Swallows. He should fit right in.

[Guest Vince Coleman Firecracker]

Ashie62 wrote: Sell Ollie to the Japan Swallows. He should fit right in.

But how much money should the Japan Swallows send to the America Mets?

[Guest Swan Swan H]

Edgy DC wrote: Swan Swan H wrote: We have learned that teammates are as sick of this saga as many fans are. As for fans, you're not speaking for me. As for teammates, anonymous critics don't strike me as the ones I want to pin my hopes to either

Batmags has made all of the points I would have wished to, so I'm not going to rehash this mess, but for the love of Jesus Alou how does the phrase "as many fans are" constitute me putting words in your mouth? I didn't say "all" or even "most." It was a statement, not a roll call.

If you don't think many fans are sick of Perez and his selfish act take a look at this thread, or the comments on Metsblog regarding the Perez saga. Many fans are indeed sick of this, and now we know that some of his teammates are as well. That was the point CF made by linking the article, and I haven't read anything here that disproves or, other than Ceetar reflexively blaming the whole mess on Manuel as expected, really disagrees.

Perez squatting in a roster spot and refusing to go to the minors is the critical issue here; the only important issue, to my mind. You think the quotes themselves are a problem; I think they are a way to help alleviate the problem.

If your issue is with the civility of discourse on this board regarding Perez, fair enough. Twenty-four guys are working pretty damned hard to win games, and one is, in my opinion, actively undermining them. I will repeat myself here - sucking is no sin, and guys who give maximum effort without results deserve support. Oliver Perez, until he refused to go to the minors and work out his issues, deserved my support. Once he made his decision that he would stay wherever he damn well felt like, he no longer did.

[Guest Vince Coleman Firecracker]

Swan Swan H wrote: ...take a look at this thread, or the comments on Metsblog...

Looking at the comments on Metsblog is never a good idea, no matter the context.

[Guest Swan Swan H]

I'm not looking for quotes, just the feelings of many Mets fans.

[Guest Edgy DC]

It was a statement, not a roll call.

Well, I spoke for myself anyhow. I certainly don't mean to suggest that anybody is sticking words in my mouth. Only telling you where I'm at, nausea wise.

I don't think the quotes are "the" problem. I think the players' choice to behave like two huge childish weenies is a problem, and not one that Oliver Perez created.

I'm not going to rehash this mess

I don't think there's a mess.

[Fman99]

Ashie62 wrote: Sell Ollie to the Japan Swallows. He should fit right in.

Would the Swallows accept a guy who Sucks?

[Guest Swan Swan H]

Edgy DC wrote: It was a statement, not a roll call.

Well, I spoke for myself anyhow. I certainly don't mean to suggest that anybody is sticking words in my mouth. Only telling you where I'm at, nausea wise.

I don't think the quotes are "the" problem. I think the players' choice to behave like two huge childish weenies is a problem, and not one that Oliver Perez created.

Would you be less disapproving if there were names attached to the quotes? Is the anonymity the sticking point here, or the fact that players are unhappy that they have to play, effectively, a man short for the foreseeable future, and are expressing that unhappiness?

[Guest Edgy DC]

Yes, I'd be less unhappy. Your second question presents me with a false choice however.

Many Met fans were furious back in Al Leiter's and John Franco's day about the notion that players might be conducting back-channel campaigns to effect personnel decisions. I don't think it should then be celebrated if we find the decisions they lobby for to be agreeable.

[batmagadanleadoff]

I wonder if it even matters what the anonymous Mets think? Is it even an issue as far as Perez is concerned? Isn't it enough that management wants to re-assign Perez? If you're questioning Ollie's anonymous teammates and also defending Ollie, then it seems to me (correct me if I'm mistaken) that you're saying that Ollie gets to decide his fate. But irrespective, what's the difference between Ollie's situation and a hypothetical scenario where some backup Met (who, let's suppose, can also block a re-assignment) refuses to come off the bench to pinch-hit because he's not starting enough games?

This is out and out insubordination.

[Fman99]

[Guest OlerudOwned]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: I wonder if it even matters what the anonymous Mets think? Is it even an issue as far as Perez is concerned? Isn't it enough that management wants to re-assign Perez? If you're questioning Ollie's anonymous teammates and also defending Ollie, then it seems to me (correct me if I'm mistaken) that you're saying that Ollie gets to decide his fate. But irrespective, what's the difference between Ollie's situation and a hypothetical scenario where some backup Met (who, let's suppose, can also block a re-assignment) refuses to come off the bench to pinch-hit because he's not starting enough games? This is out and out insubordination.

Eh, that doesn't seem like the same kind of scenario. As I understand it, Perez isn't refusing to pitch out of the bullpen, he's refusing to accept assignment to AAA. Which, while as seemingly silly and selfish and detrimental to the team as it may be, is still his right, contractually.

[Fman99]

Oops wrong thread, drunk.

[Guest Edgy DC]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: IIf you're questioning Ollie's anonymous teammates and also defending Ollie, then it seems to me (correct me if I'm mistaken) that you're saying that Ollie gets to decide his fate.

Of course that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is clear.

[duan]

thing is, someone needs to go to Oliver Perez' agent and present to him a cohesive plan that involves a net gain to his client. The person who needs to do that is Omar Minaya as he's the one who's signed him. If Omar can't come up with something that's going to end with a positive for Perez then we're at a dead end.

You say Perez is being selfish by not going to the minors. He says, hang on a second, I signed a deal to be on a Major League roster, that's the promise I was given, I you don't want me on yours, there's people who'll have me on theirs (hey there would be if he only cost 450k) who'll believe in me and let me start and find my groove - the self same groove you were so f'ing thrilled about 2007.

Am I better off having the indignity of staying in the Minor Leagues for the rest of the season or going to (lets just say) the Royals and strating 20 more games?

Oliver just signed the contract he didn't force the mets to offer it, he's just forcing them to honour it.

(FWIW - I can't believe that someone isn't able to work through the process with him in a convincing manner that'll allow him to retain dignity the obvious parallel is Traschel but lets not forget Roy Halladay went back to have a mechanical tune up earlier in his career too.)

[seawolf17]

I agree with duan. Good Ollie is so damn good when he's on. He just needs to find a way to harness that. I'm not ready to give up on him yet either; it just seems right now like all the Mets are doing is setting him up to fail.

[metirish]

Agreed , Boras needs to be part of the solution on this.

[Ceetar]

seawolf17 wrote: I agree with duan. Good Ollie is so damn good when he's on. He just needs to find a way to harness that. I'm not ready to give up on him yet either; it just seems right now like all the Mets are doing is setting him up to fail.

I suspect this as well, but I don't really know. none of us do. Could the not having one decision maker be causing half the problem here? As Duan said, Omar needs to present a plan that benefits both parties, as win-win. One that involves a set date of recall so it's more a rehab versus demotion situation. But Omar doesn't apparently have final authority on this.

As for the anon players, if they really said those things that way, that's bad, mainly because they didn't say it to Perez first. It's just whiny and pathetic really. Stop snitching to the media. So much for this 'awesome' clubhouse they had right?

[Centerfield]

Wow, I had no idea this would be such a controversial topic. It seems pretty straightforward to me.

*Oliver Perez sucks. That's not his fault. That alone, doesn't make him an asshole.
*Oliver Perez refuses to accept an assignment to the minor leagues, despite the fact that the team has asked him to do so. In doing so, he takes up a roster spot and renders it useless. He also undermines the best chance they have to get him to stop sucking, meaning the suck is likely to continue. This makes him a selfish asshole.
*Oliver Perez has every right to decide his fate. This is obvious. But when he chooses the one that is self-serving, that makes him an asshole.
*Some of his teammates have seen this and think he's an asshole. There is nothing wrong with this. In fact, I agree with them.
*Some of his teammates have seen this, think he's an asshole, and have expressed their feelings to the media anonymously. This is an asshole move too. They should either keep to themselves, or fess up and and take responsibility for their words. However, keep in mind that these teammates are being assholes in response to an asshole. And while these anonymous guys are assholes, they seem to have the team's interest in mind, while Perez is an asshole with only Perez in mind. To me, that makes the anonymous assholes much less of a problem than Oliver Asshole.
*It makes much more sense to retain Oliver Asshole and hopes he works out his issues since he is so talented. That's what makes his refusal to accept a stint at the minors much more frustrating.
*Releasing him does not send any message or hurt him in any way. In fact, you play right into Oliver Asshole and Boras's hands.

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

What CF said.

[Guest attgig]

i wonder if he's afraid that he'll just suck that bad in the minors, and thus, gets cut and nobody wants to touch him except the long island ducks...

Everyone knows he can pitch as long as he doesn't lose control of himself... he's his own worst enemy and will continue to be so wherever he's pitching.

[duan]

put aside that the money is telephone numbers.
you're contract with your employers states that you are going to be employed to do one thing.
They say, we're not happy with how you're going and we're going to send you to Middle of Nowhere, New York State to see if you're still good enough.
You say, I'm good enough, I just need time to work through it.
They say, you're not.
You say - you don't want me pay me what I'm owed and let me go.

In some jobs they'd call it constructive dismissal.

I'll give you an example, a journalist in an Irish national daily was their "showbiz" correspondent. It was a job he liked a lot, and he was on very good money. Things were going well- so well that rather then have him jumps ship, the Newspaper offered him a fixed term contract. Editor changed and he thought said 'showbiz' correspondent wasn't performing. Showbiz Corr tried to change his style, Editor still didn't like. What could editor do - he was paying this guy over 100k and his gig was that.

I'll tell you what Editor could do. He could send him to do court reports in rural ireland, because the contract didn't specify the role. He knew that by doing this the Showbiz guy would have two options. Have himself demeaned and his career undermined or walk away. He walked away.

Oliver Perez' union has negotiated a situation where you can't do what that Editor did when you sign a certain type of contract and to be honest, in the context of what those union members go through when they don't control their own labour situation I think it's more then fair.

[Fman99]

I just think he'd rather live the major league lifestyle than ride on buses and stay at the Best Western in Scranton. Just a hunch.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Fman99 wrote: I just think he'd rather live the major league lifestyle than ride on buses and stay at the Best Western in Scranton. Just a hunch.

You might be right. Though I'd bet that the Mets offered Ollie a cushie Florida gig where he's based in one city, doesn't travel outside of that locale and pitches against incoming teams. Or the same idea, but substitute Brooklyn for Florida. He wouldn't have to leave the city, and would pitch against Cyclone opponents.

Here's a question for the forum: Some think that Ollie's agent, Scott Boras is behind Ollie's unwillingness to be re-assigned. If so, then why? What does Boras gain from the tactic? Or Ollie, for that matter?

[Guest attgig]

so, going by the showbiz correspondent analogy of demeaning and underminding ollie's career, can ollie say... be put in as the catcher and have him catch dickey one batter, and then catch some fastballer?

or if it's the major league lifestyle, if he's not promised nice hotel rooms in his contract, can they make his room be the best western across the street? or the locker room attendants maybe not do his laundry or accidently change the back of his jersey from perez to isuck? or how about the guys who think he's a ahole for not accepting a aaa assignment maybe screw with him?
or heck, throw him out every single day, blow out his arm and then get insurance for his contract... i know, that's just mean...but...

Edited June 1, 2010 by Guest

[duan]

well this has already come up in Mr Rubin's chat.

"Brian (NY, NY)

Adam, Ollie Perez is a capitalist in a capitalist society acting in his own best interest, just like Fred Wilpon, Omar Minaya, and Derek Jeter. Going to the minors is not in his own best interest. Any capitalist who argues otherwise is a completely hypocrite, yes?

Adam Rubin (11:57 AM)

Fair point. Shame on the Mets for signing Oliver Perez to a three-year, $36 million contract. He has a CBA-bargained right not to go to the minors -- and if he doesn't want to, the Mets have the choice to release him or carry him on the roster. I will say Steve Trachsel a decade ago had success rediscovering himself in the minors. And based on some nuanced reporting, you can almost assume Scott Boras, Perez's agent, feels like Ollie might be better served in the minors for a little bit."