Jeff Francoeur

[Centerfield]

Is killing this team. He has an OPS of .346 in May (.635 overall).

How much longer do you run him out there?

[metirish]

He's great in the clubhouse , I saw a line of his recently of what he's doing since sometime in April...it was horrid.

[nymr83]

Centerfield wrote: Is killing this team. He has an OPS of .346 in May (.635 overall). How much longer do you run him out there?

i guess until Beltran returns and Pagan plays RF? Is Fernando Martinez demonstrating himself to be more ready than last year? Can Carter play out there every day?

[Ceetar]

I figure he needs to sit and get some days off and work on discipline. let Carter start for a day or two.

He's still overall done well as a Met, but clock is ticking. Hopefully we get some news on Beltran in the next week or so. Hopefully that news is positive, in which case you probably ride Francoeur out, if not, you look for a replacement sooner rather than later. see if they can throw in a SP while you're at it.

Maybe swapping out the hitting couch will give Francoeur another boost of productivity?

Carter probably can't play everyday and didn't F-Mart get hurt? again?

[metirish]

I think Fernando is on the DL...or was recently

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

As it stands, he's a $5 million dollar outfield arm. And his plate approach seems to be devolving before our eyes.

I like Carter in there to spell him for now, at least for Pelfrey/groundball-y starts and particularly tough righties.

[Gwreck]

The money is irrelevant at this point: we're stuck paying, he's so bad nobody's going to take him and he's a FA at the end of the year.

I say whoever hits (especially given our problems there) and Francoeur can always come in as a defensive replacement late in the game. I'd even try Murphy in RF if need be.

Edited May 24, 2010 by Guest

[Centerfield]

Really? You guys would wait until Beltran comes back? Last two wins notwithstanding, this team needs an offensive jolt. If I'm Jerry Manuel and I need to win now, Carter is my starting rightfielder.

I also slot in Daniel Murphy as soon as he's back.

1. Reyes
2. Pagan
3. Wright
4. Davis
5. Bay
6. Murphy
7. Carter
8. Barajas

Against a lefty, I slot in Tatis at second

[Gwreck]

You think Murphy can play second? I think we could probably hide him in RF but I have my doubts about second.

[Ceetar]

Centerfield wrote: Really? You guys would wait until Beltran comes back? Last two wins notwithstanding, this team needs an offensive jolt. If I'm Jerry Manuel and I need to win now, Carter is my starting rightfielder. I also slot in Daniel Murphy as soon as he's back. 1. Reyes 2. Pagan 3. Wright 4. Davis 5. Bay 6. Murphy 7. Carter 8. Barajas Against a lefty, I slot in Tatis at second

I think if Reyes and Bay are going to start hitting, Frenchy won't be such an eyesore, and if we know Beltran actively playing rehab games towards coming back, then we live with it, but only if Beltran is making that progress. The bigger a ? Beltran is, the more you look to replace Frenchy immediately. Preferably with lots of platooning of Carter and Murphy and what not. (Murphy will/can spark a completely different debate about whether he can play the outfield and blah blah blah. He's not great out there, but I think he'd be fine)


Murphy at second? (probably need another thread for this) I think he'd be okay. Hits more than Cora, and probably much more than Tejada.

[Centerfield]

Gwreck wrote: You think Murphy can play second? I think we could probably hide him in RF but I have my doubts about second.

I have no idea. But this team needs offense really bad (13th out 16 NL teams in OPS). I hear Murphy was passable in the AFL. I'd at least give it a try.

All I know is, if my job were on the line, I'd hate to go down with Cora and Francoeur.

[metirish]

But bad defense can cost you games , throwing Murphy out there because his bat should be better is flawed......and as a Lawyer you should know that.

[Guest Swan Swan H]

Why not give Carter a shot against some, if not all righthanders? Stick him in the seven hole and see what he can do for a couple of weeks. Francoeur is so lost right now that it can't be worse offensively, and Carter should get the chance to prove whether his bad defensive rep is warranted. If he's that bad out there he loses the odd start against, for example, the Phils with their lefty pull-hitting lineup, but I'd give him a chance.

[metirish]

Why not have "The Animal" play second.....let him go berserk out there.

[Guest attgig]

Swan Swan H wrote: Why not give Carter a shot against some, if not all righthanders? Stick him in the seven hole and see what he can do for a couple of weeks. Francoeur is so lost right now that it can't be worse offensively, and Carter should get the chance to prove whether his bad defensive rep is warranted. If he's that bad out there he loses the odd start against, for example, the Phils with their lefty pull-hitting lineup, but I'd give him a chance.

agreed. leave 2b as it is, until Murph is actually playing games in AAA at 2b, and doing well - not just passable. And anyone who wants murph in rf, do you remember how he was in LF?!??? No way I want him in my OF. And as that experiment showed, I do NOT want him LEARNING a position in flushing.... no way.
Put Carter in RF. Let him play against all RHP.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I don't know why I should think that Carter "can't" play every day. If there's such a think as "can't" regarding everydayness, Francoeur is demonstrating it.

Right now, I don't think it's a question of everydayness, but Carter stealing PT from French as the performance indicates. But I think Jerry is going to be more prone to looking to pull Carter for Francoeur to get a late-game matchup rather than pull Francoeur for Carter as (1) he has more of a professional interest in getting Francoeur going, and (2) French provides that late game defense that makes him feel good.

He was .400 / .454 / .700 // 1.154 in his first three games after sitting two in a row in Florida and Atlanta, but then went 0-10 against the Yankees while Carter only got to the plate once. I suspect Jerry hoped he had gotten him going and hadn't.

And, hey, we have a Frenchy thread.

[Fman99]

attgig wrote: agreed. leave 2b as it is, until Murph is actually playing games in AAA at 2b, and doing well - not just passable. And anyone who wants murph in rf, do you remember how he was in LF?!??? No way I want him in my OF. And as that experiment showed, I do NOT want him LEARNING a position in flushing.... no way. Put Carter in RF. Let him play against all RHP.

I agree on all points. Murphy was cringeworthy in the outfield last year. I would love to see Carter get a bigger chunk of playing time in the 7th/8th hole in RF.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Also, about Carter... he has a minimal platoon split. If you were to sit him against lefties, it shouldn't be because he couldn't hit 'em.

Also, about Francoeur... though he's likely nowhere near as good as he was starting the season, and he's likely nowhere near as bad as he has been since, he's probably much closer to the guy we've seen recently than the league-MVP-after-two-weeks mirage.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Francoeur is devolving, like Leiter wrote a few posts ago. Either that, or he was just plain lucky at the beginning of this season. He's back to swinging at pitches as high as his adam's apple and barely higher than his ankles. During this Subway Series, Francoeur would've drawn a walk almost every time up if he never swung at a single pitch.

I'm not hot on the idea of giving him more starts because Reyes is supposed to get hot soon and thus, compensate for Frenchy. The goal isn't to take one step forward and one step back and tread at or near .500.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Edgy DC wrote: I don't know why I should think that Carter "can't" play every day. If there's such a think as "can't" regarding everydayness, Francoeur is demonstrating it.

Great point. And we might get to see Carter taking some of Frenchy's PT soon enough. Manuel seems to be managing for his life right now and desperate circumstances can bring about positive results. We saw it on Saturday when K-Rod was called in to pitch the 8th inning with the bases loaded and one out. On the other hand, Manuel, I think, would be less inclined now to do the unconventional and bat Reyes anywhere other than the leadoff spot. Even though a .210 hitter has as much business leading off as batting third.

Edited May 24, 2010 by Guest

[metirish]

I think Jerry is the type that firmly believes that a player can play his way out of a funk and thus Franoeur will play everyday.

[Centerfield]

Everything I've read suggests that differences in defensive ability are far less significant than differences in offensive ability.

So, given the choice between Cora (bad offense, ok defense) and Murphy (ok offense, passable defense) I would go with Murphy.

If, however, the choice becomes Corah (bad offense, ok defense) and Murphy (ok offense, awful defense) then I guess I would reconsider.

[Ceetar]

Centerfield wrote: Everything I've read suggests that differences in defensive ability are far less significant than differences in offensive ability. So, given the choice between Cora (bad offense, ok defense) and Murphy (ok offense, passable defense) I would go with Murphy. If, however, the choice becomes Corah (bad offense, ok defense) and Murphy (ok offense, awful defense) then I guess I would reconsider.

You have to factor in the idea that this could mean Cora's bad offense in 2011 as well.

But Murphy as ok offense and passable defense (something I think will happen in the infield at least) is also probably better than bad-passable offense and good defense in what Tejada probably gives us.

This all predicated on Castillo's foot not magically healing on it's own with him sitting with it up for 2 weeks.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Centerfield wrote: So, given the choice between Cora (bad offense, ok defense) and Murphy (ok offense, passable defense) I would go with Murphy.

Replace "Alex Cora" and "Daniel Murphy" with "Brian Giles" and "Wally Backman" and you have the decision that Davey Johnson made in 1984.

Davey always opted for offense over defense, and it generally worked out. I'd like to see Murphy play a lot of second base at Buffalo for a while, and see what we've got.

[Ceetar]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Centerfield wrote: So, given the choice between Cora (bad offense, ok defense) and Murphy (ok offense, passable defense) I would go with Murphy. Replace "Alex Cora" and "Daniel Murphy" with "Brian Giles" and "Wally Backman" and you have the decision that Davey Johnson made in 1984. Davey always opted for offense over defense, and it generally worked out. I'd like to see Murphy play a lot of second base at Buffalo for a while, and see what we've got.

Except presumably the need for 2B is now, not in a month.

[Guest Swan Swan H]

I haven't seen anything from Daniel Murphy that makes him look at all like a second baseman, but I'm glad they're giving him a chance to try it.

So far he has been unable to play the second-easiest position on the defensive spectrum worth a lick, and was about adequate at the easiest, and now he's being asked to move to the second-hardest (non-battery) position. There's no doubt he'll bust his ass to improve, and I'm pulling for him to succeed because he's a good hitter and a likable guy, but this is a bit of a hill to climb.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Centerfield wrote: So, given the choice between Cora (bad offense, ok defense) and Murphy (ok offense, passable defense) I would go with Murphy. Replace "Alex Cora" and "Daniel Murphy" with "Brian Giles" and "Wally Backman" and you have the decision that Davey Johnson made in 1984. Davey always opted for offense over defense, and it generally worked out. I'd like to see Murphy play a lot of second base at Buffalo for a while, and see what we've got.

I'm certain that (1) Brian Giles was better than Alex Cora, and (2) Wally Backman was markedly better than anything we can expect from Murphy any time soon.

I think it's a little premature to fill the Francoeur thread with posts about the making Murphy the full-time segundo when he has yet to get a part-time job at the position at high-A.

[metirish]

I tend to agree with you edgy bit I think it speaks to how awful Francoeur has been though.

[Ceetar]

Well, let's see where they play Murphy in Buffalo.

Looking at their roster, the Bisons have 5 OF, two on the DL, 2 LF and a CF. Val pascucci (listed as 1B) and Feliciano (who's the CF and the Mets have shown no inclination to promote) are the guys who played RF this weekend. Russ Adams, Alex Cintron, and Jon Malo listed as 2B.

Oh, and Bump took the loss for Lehigh Valley yesterday. BUMP!

[Guest attgig]

Val Pascucci. good to know he's still around. though i doubt he'll ever see flushing, he tore up new orleans a few years ago.