Predict the Day That Jerry Gets Fired

[seawolf17]

Jeff just can't get enough of that chant.

[Centerfield]

Jeff just swung by to do a little Terry Cashman, according to Adam Rubin. Q: Did you express confidence? JW: "I came to talk baseball with them and hear what they want to do and how they want to get this moving in the right direction." whew. I saw this thread pop up and I thought "yikes, they fired him during the game!"

How funny would that be?

"Oh my goodness John, is that Bobby Valentine in the owner's box? OH MY GOODNESS GRACIOUS!!!!! OF ALL THE DRAMATIC THINGS!!!!!!!!"

[Guest Edgy DC]

"And here comes Jerry Manuel out to talk with Pelfrey. I guess he's gonna try to settle... no, I'm wrong. He's signaling to the pen. I'm not sure I agree with that call. And... wait... here comes Omar Minaya out to the mound, and he's signaling to somebody in the press box. Somebody from the box is climbing down toward the Met dugout. I can't see who it is, but Jerry Manuel is not happy. I've seen a lot of things but... Wait a minute... here comes Jeff Wilpon, and he's signaling! Keith, what do you make of this?"

"Stop beggin', Jerry. Stop beggin'."

[metirish]

Funny stuff people

Ever notice that Jeff squints and his nose wiggles when he talks, I couldn't help[ but notice it yesterday .

[nymr83]

Next time an owner flies in after a five-game winning streak, it will take on a new and more positive meaning.

Actually, it won't get reported!

[ashie62]

Please God, give Jeff the strength to hatchet Jerry

[MFS62]

There have been a lot of negatives mentioned in this and other threads about Jerry.
So, I have to ask, what positives does Jerry bring to the table as manager?
I'll start with:
-History of being a winning manager. (ChiSox and here)
-Media relations, and some quick quips.
-Since I don't know what goes on behind closed doors, a calm clubhouse, with everyone on the same page and getting along well. (There have been no Hanleyesque comments by players.)

What else?
And do you feel those positives are enough so you would want to retain him as manager?

Later

[Benjamin Grimm]

MFS62 wrote: And do you feel those positives are enough so you would want to retain him as manager?

No.

The Wilpons evidently do, at least for the moment.

[Zvon]

MFS62 wrote: There have been a lot of negatives mentioned in this and other threads about Jerry. So, I have to ask, what positives does Jerry bring to the table as manager?

I like Jerrys patience.
And his hutzpah.

Like battin Reyes 3rd...

I did not like it, I did not agree with it, but he did it in the face of adversity.
And even when being pressured to stop doing it by media and fans,
he felt he needed a certain amount of time to see if it would work.

He believed in something and he went with it.
And he stuck with it until he decided it wasn't going to work.
Until HE decided.
No knee jerk reaction to the pressures.

Also his even keel.
I like that in some managers and not in others.Some become bland.
(I like the opposite in some managers but not in others.)

I like it in Jerry.

He has a good mix of calmness and humor.

Most of all I like his patience.
It's a long season and it suits the game.

MFS62 wrote: And do you feel those positives are enough so you would want to retain him as manager?

Yes, in my opinion.

Lets face it.
The way things are right now we have a third place team here.
I pretty much felt that way coming out of spring training.
This is not Jerrys fault.

Yea, he should stay, at least until the All Star break if the team can keep its head, hey, even just its nose, above water.
Many won't agree but I also am a very patient man.

[Guest themetfairy]

I'm going to guess July 12th - the beginning of the All Star break.

They can make the announcement when nobody is around to cover the team.

[metirish]

"History of being a winning manager"?

Overall he has a winning % of .511.....with the Mets it's .488....career .509....regardless of those numbers he's never won anything as a manager. His 2000 WS finished first and went 0-3 in the ALDS.

probably better to say he has complied a winning record as a manager.

[Ceetar]

MFS62 wrote: There have been a lot of negatives mentioned in this and other threads about Jerry. So, I have to ask, what positives does Jerry bring to the table as manager? I'll start with: -History of being a winning manager. (ChiSox and here) -Media relations, and some quick quips. -Since I don't know what goes on behind closed doors, a calm clubhouse, with everyone on the same page and getting along well. (There have been no Hanleyesque comments by players.) What else? And do you feel those positives are enough so you would want to retain him as manager? Later

Winning managers are really a factor of their players, not their own ability. And he's not a winning manager with the Mets.

I've heard some (Rich Coutino) say they've grown tired of Manuel's constant say one thing, do another, but in general, I agree that he gives good quotes and talks to the media, but that's not a reason to keep him for the Mets (for the Post maybe..)

I actually think he's a negative in the clubhouse. I think he's too calm, too chatty, and not focused or disciplined enough to control what needs to be controled. It helps when you get guys you dislike out (Castro, Church) but I can't see how guys like Murphy and Pagan can like him. Reyes, while maybe respecting him, still disagrees with him quite a bit and isn't afraid to show it (sacrificing for a hit instead of just sacrificing, way back in the first game when he tried torefuse to come out)

I find very little redeemable about Jerry. Maybe the willingness to do things a little differently, but often time his different is just stupid.

[ashie62]

For better of worse Jerry has become the poster boy for the laughingstock Mets

Goodbye Jerry, Warthen, Hojo, and Omar

[Guest Swan Swan H]

I can't see how guys like Murphy and Pagan can like him.

What does that mean? Why those two guys? And what insight are you using to make such a determination?

[nymr83]

Valdes on to pitch the 7th, leadoff double...

[batmagadanleadoff]

Swan Swan H wrote: I can't see how guys like Murphy and Pagan can like him. What does that mean? Why those two guys? And what insight are you using to make such a determination?

Because Murphy's injury is Jerry's fault. Because it's Jerry's fault that Ike Davis has developed into one great baseball story. I also blame Jerry for the avatars not working. What? I gotta explain it to you?

[Guest Edgy DC]

Valentine criticizes management.

Albany T-U: Manuel must be on his way out.

Newark S-L: Manuel running out of lineups (which I read as "Manuel running out of time").

[ashie62]

Aw, Bobby you had to open your mouth? My money is on Chip Hale for nrxt mgr.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Influential alternative media outlet Mets by the Numbers is now calling for Jerry's ouster.

Sha-na-na, na-na-na, na-na-na.

http://mbtn.net/when-its-time-change-then-its-time-change

[metirish]

Is that a classic 70's shot of you?

[Guest Edgy DC]

I can barely watch anymore, yet we see it almost every night: The Mets get a leadoff runner and in an effort to choke dead whatever rally might come of it, Jerry foolishly orders someone to make an out on purpose, frequently removing an effective pitcher while doing so, reducing the number of shots to drive the guy in and asking the following batter, no matter how bad he's struggling, to make something happen or bring real pressure on the guy following him. Once he's turned the game inside-out to get that single run (if that), they've barely inched closer to victory since it's now a question of whether the beleaguered bullpen, the same two guys whether they're winning, losing or tied, can be nothing less than perfect or risk a humiliating fate. And since the bulletproof bullpen Jerry quixotically pursues exists mostly in theory and rarely in practice, the games are always too close and failures continue to pile up: They're barely playing .250 ball on the road, and it's a disgrace.

Call the Pulitzer folks. The year has ended in May.

[G-Fafif]

Per LBJ on Walter Cronkite and Vietnam, if Jerry has lost MBTN, he's lost the country.

[Ceetar]

Swan Swan H wrote: I can't see how guys like Murphy and Pagan can like him. What does that mean? Why those two guys? And what insight are you using to make such a determination?

I'm going back the entire history of Jerry's tenure, but Murphy seemed so jerked around to me by the Manuel (and the Mets, who knows who was really responsible) but asked a (Basically) rookie to go to winterball and play 2B (after calling up the mainly 3Bman to play LF in the majors) before bringing him to Spring Training to play LF and then as he's learning that have him start learning 1B, and before he even gets 20 minutes at that, actually put him at 1B while criticizing his LF skills openly. Toss him between regular play and platoon play seemingly at whim, sit him after a couple of good games, and bat him in a different place in the order every day.

That's the things I look at when I feel that Manuel makes decisions based on personal preference rather than what's best for the team.

My thing with Pagan is that here's a guy that's played great for the Mets, played hard, batted .300 with the Mets in his careeer (just shy of a full seasons worth of games) and Manuel still decided to give Gary Matthews Jr a shot for the first week of the season. And it was only because Matthews was (and is) so mindnumblingly awful that got him to change his mind.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Let's be fair here. Even to Jerry.

Playing second in the offseason isn't Jerry's call.

He didn't play it in winter ball. He played it in the fall, at the Arizona Fall League.

The plan was for him then to continue his season by playing the outfield in a winter Latin American assignment, but he got hurt.

Manuel gave him a vote of confidence (un-neccessarily, I think) by declaring that Tatis would be more likely to take PT from Ryan Church than Murphy, who was "better" than a platoon player.

He actually lobbied Manuel for a chance to play first. If Manuel deserves any heat there, it's that he had so lost faith in Murphy's glove from his outfield misadventures that he held off giving him a chance for two weeks, tryiing even the likes of Jeromy Reed first.

[Guest Swan Swan H]

OK, a dozen points to pick on there, but:

who knows who was really responsible

Clearly you don't, and you state as much, but that doesn't stop you from using your opinion of this stuff you post.

Re: Murphy's position, I would think that he would welcome the chance to prove himself in the majors at a position other than his natural position, considering that that position (3B) is likely occupied for years to come. At the time Delgado was the 1B, so LF was really the only place for him. When that didn't work out he wasn't buried, he was given a chance to play almost every day at a new position.

So, the guy flamed out at a position he had played the year before, yet was still given 556 plate appearances in 2009. Hard to pile that up when you're being "Toss(ed)... between regular play and platoon play seemingly at whim, (and sat) after a couple of good games."

Re: Pagan, he did not play great last year, he played pretty well when he wasn't throwing to the wrong bases and running the Mets out of innings. Manuel was stuck with Matthews, and 41 games into the season Pagan has started 34 and Matthews has started 10. Pagan has played quite well this year, making virtually none of the mistakes he made last year, and has earned the starting job. Yet, you surmise that you can't see how Pagan "'can like" Manuel when he did what young players have done since the ball was filled with feathers, played better than a veteran and won the job. At this point I'd think he'd be quite happy with the way Jerry is treating him.

The bit about 'personal preference' is just silly. That's a manager's job, to decide who he prefers playing a position based on his experience and opinion. I get that you disagree with the decision, and I very often do as well, but to imply that this is different from what Bobby Cox, John McGraw or Walter Alston did is ridiculous, or at best semantics. Wrong, perhaps, but he's doing what he's supposed to do.

We get it, you hate Manuel. You have used words like stupid and idiot to describe the man. I think that the Mets would be better off with a different manager, but I don't see a need for character assassination or flights of fantasy regarding his relationship with players based on heaven knows what you cook up in your blog.

[ashie62]

You all have solid cogent points. MY O is that if a business isn't running properly at some point enough is enough. It may not be fair, but that's just me.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Jerry isn't the sole reason the Mets are doing badly, but he's definitely part of the problem. He's not part of the solution.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

He didn't mistreat Murphy.

And previous Pagan managers have had him so far in their respective doghouses that he sat behind an old John Mabry and a putrid Felix Pie (a free-swinging, .sub-.300 OBPing 54 OPS+) in the bench pecking order, each for the better part of a year; one actually started middling defensive leftfielder Jacque Jones-- OPSing .735 the bad way (low OBP/middling SLG)-- in center field over him*. He may have done so belatedly, but he has trusted Pagan's talent with playing time, rewarded Pagan's performance with a regular starting job (as he had last year before the injury), and seems to have consistently tried to work through the brainfarts as opposed to red-assing him for them.

Also, dude, none of us here-- unless JoePet has even more access than UniWatch lets on-- has any idea what he's like behind closed doors with the players, so let's leave that part out, K?

*When you look back at it, Lou Pinella's first Cubs outfield-- Soriano, Jones, dessicated husk of Uncle Cliffy, left to right-- was, like, historically terrible.

Edited May 20, 2010 by Guest

[Frayed Knot]

Yeah, Jerry has enough problems without blaming him for things not under his control.

- Murphy played 2nd base in the AFL because that's where a spot were open (teams apply for limited spots for their players) and because if you want to find out if the guy has any defensive versatility that's the best place to do it.
- he got stuck in LF during his early stint in the majors because that's where there were ABs to be found. It was either that or sit on the bench because there was certainly no case to be made for starting him over Wright or Delgado. Sounds to me like Jerry was doing the guy a favor.
- Pagan's biggest problem over the last few years have been his bad fundamentals and his inability to stay off the DL while other injuries were opening up opportunities all over the field

[ashie62]

The Mets are moribund. make the move. If not now when??? Are we waiting for 24-38 or 38-24?