The Mets Make Offers

[metirish]

You're definitely probably correct Val

[metirish]

Mets' talks with Bay, Molina affect each other

The Mets hope to resolve their pursuit of Jason Bay very shortly - this week, ideally - but think their negotiations with Bengie Molina will drag on longer. That reflects how far apart they are in their talks with Molina, and it also reflects a strategy - and the notion that in the Mets' minds, the fates and salaries of Bay and Molina are tied together. On Dec. 10, the Mets made offers of four years for about $65 million to Bay and two years for about $10 million to Molina. According to a Mets official, if the team fails to secure Bay, it will strongly consider raising its offer to Molina. But if Bay signs, the Mets will hold a harder line with Molina. The thinking ties back into the Mets' desire to improve their team's offense. Club decision-makers opted to go for Bay and Molina with the thought that the duo would raise the offensive production from two positions that gave the Mets little in 2009. Bay, 31, wants a fifth guaranteed year, and the Mets have indicated a willingness to offer a fifth year at a lower annual salary. Bay has established himself as one of the better-hitting corner outfielders in the game. In 2009 with the Red Sox, he had a .384 on-base percentage and .537 slugging percentage, hitting a career-high 36 homers. Molina, 35, doesn't have as impressive a resume. He does hit for power; he slammed a career-high 20 homers for the Giants in 2009. But his on-base percentage has been below .300 two of the past three seasons. This past year, he recorded a woeful .285 OBP, which means he'll be in line to kill many a rally for the Mets or whichever team signs him. If Bay signs with another team - at the moment, he doesn't appear to have any comparable offers from other teams - the Yankees will have to reassess the market for outfielders. The Angels are looking to trade Juan Rivera, whom Omar Minaya acquired from the Yankees when he was the Expos' general manager in 2003. The Mets have maintained contact with agent Scott Boras regarding Matt Holliday, but the communication hasn't been steady. The Mets think Bay's tendency to pull the ball will make him a better hitter at Citi Field than Holliday, who is thought of as more of a gap hitter.

I can easily see us getting neither of them....

[Frayed Knot]

According to a Mets official, if the team fails to secure Bay, it will strongly consider raising its offer to Molina. But if Bay signs, the Mets will hold a harder line with Molina.

Regardless of whether you agree with the strategy to persue either of these guys - who the hell thinks it's a good idea to publicize this stuff?

[smg58]

I agree. I wonder if there's one Mets source doing all the talking, or whether the whole damn front office has diarrhea of the mouth.

[Benjamin Grimm]

A CPF member gets a shout-out in the headline to this New York Post article.

Mets edgy as Bengie & Bay stall
By BART HUBBUCH

Last Updated: 10:43 AM, December 21, 2009

Radio silence from Jason Bay and Bengie Molina continued for the Mets over the weekend, leading some within the club to wonder if either player is truly interested in coming to Queens.

The Mets remained at a negotiating standstill with Bay and Molina after offering both free agents contracts on the final day of the Winter Meetings almost two weeks ago.

Mets GM Omar Minaya has indicated a willingness to wait on both players, telling The Post late last week, "It is a long offseason."

But a team source said yesterday that Minaya might soon consider other options in left field and at catcher if Bay and Molina continue to leave the Mets dangling despite appearing to have no serious offers anywhere close to what Minaya has tendered.

The holdup in both cases continues to be an extra year -- the 31-year-old Bay wants a fifth year added to the Mets' four-year, roughly $65 million offer, while the 35-year-old Molina wants a guaranteed third year tacked on to Minaya's two-year, roughly $12 million proposal.

While Minaya hasn't ruled out adding a year to each offer, the Mets refuse to budge for the moment because they are increasingly convinced they are all but bidding against themselves for both players.

Unfortunately for the Mets, their options in left field aren't all that promising beyond Bay.

Matt Holliday is considered too expensive by the Mets in light of his roughly $100 million offer from the Cardinals. Meanwhile, sentiment within the organization is not strong to pursue free agent Johnny Damon, because the Mets are looking to add power and they wonder if Damon's 24 home runs last season were largely a product of new Yankee Stadium's bandbox dimensions.

If Bay goes elsewhere, the Mets might look instead to the trade market or the list of non-tendered players, with former Red Jonny Gomes (20 HRs in 98 games last year) a possibility.

[Centerfield]

I don't understand why they haven't at least make an offer to Holliday.

The Cardinals have either offered 5 years or 8 years, but since Holliday hasn't signed, you'd have to think it was a 5 year deal. They should put that offer out there right now.

As for Molina, I think the offer should be for one year less, for less than half the annual salary.

[MFS62]

I agree. I wonder if there's one Mets source doing all the talking, or whether the whole damn front office has diarrhea of the mouth.[/quote:3tbe59ty]

And they're blabbing to writers who have constipation of ideas.

Later

[Fman99]

I like the delay, actually. The alternative is throwing more money and years at both of these guys than they deserve (see Perez, Oliver).

I wonder who blinks first, Omar or Bay/Molina.

[ashie62]

Jonny Gomes is being talked about for the Metsies 280 AB 20 HR platoon type

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

I like the delay, actually. The alternative is throwing more money and years at both of these guys than they deserve (see Perez, Oliver).

I wonder who blinks first, Omar or Bay/Molina.[/quote:32v0nr67]

I'm with you in principle. Bad example, though-- Ollie came as a panic reaction to dawdling on-- and getting diddled on-- Lowe.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Um... whatsthatnow, Davidoff?*

According to a Mets official, if the team fails to secure Bay, it will strongly consider raising its offer to Molina. But if Bay signs, the Mets will hold a harder line with Molina.

OE:
*Subscription required-- here's a summary of sorts from Metsblog.

[ashie62]

Jesus Christmas, this chessmatch amongst idiots is annoying.

Note to Bay, Holliday, Molina, "those extra years and cash you want, not gonna happen"

[Benjamin Grimm]

I'm not familiar with Howard Megdal, but he seems quite rational. How did he manage to get an Internet column??

All Mets want for Christmas is nothing Patience could serve club well in long term

By Howard Megdal / SNY.tv

So far this winter, the Mets have missed out on five years of John Lackey. They've seen Roy Halladay traded to the Phillies, with whom he will remain until at least 2013. Free agents from Chone Figgins to Randy Wolf have signed long-term deals elsewhere, and, with each passing day, there's every indication that the Mets won't stretch beyond four years for Jason Bay or two years form Bengie Molina.

So far, this has been the best possible winter for the Mets.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that the Mets don't have holes, or that I don't want to see the club improve them as soon as possible. Rather, it is that this winter's free agent class is filled with what look to be trap contracts. And I don't want the Mets to marginally improve for 2010 while crippling the organization long-term.

Long-term contracts are like marriage. Even if every indicator is good, they still require good planning and some luck to succeed. Go into either with a myriad of red flags, and you end up like Barry Zito Dennis Rodman and whoever.

John Lackey at five years, $85 million, at age 31, with elbow injuries and a declining strikeout rate the past two seasons? You really want the Mets to sign up for that?

Randy Wolf at three years, $30 million? Chone Figgins, to change positions, for four years, $36 million?

It's as if those calling for immediate gratification don't have trap contracts in their minds when they do. Never mind that the Mets can't improve second base as long as Luis Castillo and his two years, $12 million are on the books -- or that only because Milton Bradley's ridiculous deal was equivalent to Carlos Silva's ridiculous deal in terms of toxicity were the Cubs and Mariners able to deal each of them.

Some are calling on the Mets to do whatever it takes to win now.

It is even reasonable to think that it is in Omar Minaya's best interest to do this. A difficult 2010 could spell the end of Minaya's tenure in New York, and what a shame that would be -- for Minaya to act in the best medium-term and long-term interest of the team at the expense of his job.

So far, however, he hasn't done this, and Mets fans should be grateful. The free-agent options are largely unpalatable. Even Jason Bay at four years is problematic -- his defense, already terrible, is unlikely to get better as he ages, and the plan is for first base to be occupied by Ike Davis by 2011.

And for all the hype around Matt Holliday, he is a corner outfielder with a career OPS on the road of .808. Sure doesn't sound like he's worth Carlos Beltran money to me.

Fans should be grateful for this restraint, but not as grateful as they should be to the Mets for failing to take up suggestions from columnists that the team deal Jose Reyes, Carlos Beltran and, yes, even Johan Santana.

I suppose it is the only logical way to proceed. If you are determined to re-shuffle the team in 2010 and you've decided the free-agent and trade markets are dead ends, then dealing the stars under reasonable contracts, coming off of injuries and with trade value at an all-time low is the way to go.

Of course, the 2010 Mets simply don't have the capability to control their own fortunes through player moves. Instead, they are in the not-terrible position of needing bounceback seasons from Jose Reyes, David Wright, Carlos Beltran, Johan Santana and Francisco Rodriguez. When all five of them are in what should be the prime of their careers, none has anything considered career-threatening injuries, and each of the five plays critical positions, this speaks to a potential renaissance season for New York.

But that is precisely the point. Should they recover their peak form, the Mets will be a terrific team, and without saddling the future Mets with bad contracts. Should they fail to recover, the Mets could have signed Bay, Holliday and Lackey, and still finished a distant third or fourth in the National League East.

And what may be the best news of all for the Mets is Bengie Molina's insistence on a three-year contract. In essence, Molina has taken the Mets' irrational fascination with bringing Molina to New York and raised it a ludicrous contractual demand. He's saying, in effect, "I'll see your statement that the earth is flat, and raise you that the moon is made of cheese."

(Incidentally, I have to mention Ken Davidoff's reporting that should the Mets fail to sign Bay, Molina becomes even more important, and three years is possible. There is no baseball reason to sign Molina for one year, let alone two or three. I can only assume -- and this may seem silly-that the Mets have equated "Big Acquisition" to refer to player mass. This is not what the fans have in mind, Omar. Please don't go out and sign Molina and the late Dom DeLuise.)

Ideally for the Mets, Bay and Molina are out of reach due to their demands, and the team has to settle for one-year deals to players like Jonny Gomes and Miguel Olivo, who will provide production in 2010 without saddling the team with bad contracts for years to come.

For anyone who thinks the Mets will somehow be irrelevant if they fail to make a huge splash, or that fans will revolt, think again. The Mets, if their star players recover, will be relevant for years to come -- David Wright turned 27 Sunday, and Jose Reyes won't be 27 until June 2010.

And fans will be far happier when the true contracts worth signing up for hit the market. Be it Carl Crawford or Felix Hernandez, or someone not even on the radar, fans will be far happier if the team can go out and compete for that star, in-prime player, instead of trying to sell fans on Year 2 of the Bengie Molina Era.

[Centerfield]

Wow. That was completely undouchebaggery.

Bravo Howard Megdal. I may not agree whole-heartedly with everything, he makes good points and good sense.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

I'm not familiar with Howard Megdal, but he seems quite rational. How did he manage to get an Internet column??

[Farmer Ted]

Eff 'em both. Omar needs to give them a deadline or both offers are toast. Grow some balls, Omar. No one else wants them and you're already willing to overpay.

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

Megdal provides a refreshingly different viewpoint. Contrary to the doomsaying diatribes that are so often written by his colleagues, Megdal offers a balanced and well thought out plan for the Mets offseason. I do think the Mets need for Bay (or a similar player for left field) is greater than Megdal believes, but I agree wholeheartedly that there is no need to panic and overpay to get him.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I think Howard Medgal was cribbing from my brain.

So far, however, he hasn't done this, and Mets fans should be grateful.

I wanted to clap.

[metirish]

Rosenthal with what seems to be a prevailing sentiment.....

Don�t get me wrong -- the Mets are in serious discussions with Bay, and remain the leading contender to sign him. But Bay almost certainly would take less to sign with a less dysfunctional outfit. The longer these negotiations drag on, the greater the chances that other teams will jump into the bidding.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Rosenthal with what seems to be a prevailing sentiment.....

the Mets ... remain the leading contender to sign [bay, who] almost certainly would take less to sign with a less dysfunctional outfit.

[smg58]

Bay's not taking less from anybody. He has the right to see if somebody jumps into the bidding, and in the meantime he's working under the assumption that the Mets believe they need him at least as much as he thinks he needs them.

Last year Yankee fans spent a month complaining about Sabathia taking his time to respond to a far more generous offer than what Bay's getting. People questioned whether he really wanted to play for them, and whether he was worth the trouble. CC wound up signing for even more than what the Yankees initially offered. Presumably Yankee fans are no longer complaining.

And they're presumably not complaining about the eight years and $180M given to a slightly above average (assuming UZR and +/- have some merit) defensive first baseman capable of an OPS+ close to 150. A more consistently (at least over the last three years) above average defensive left fielder capable of an OPS+ close to 140 is waiting for a better offer than 5 years and $75M, and people think he's going to be overpaid. Am I missing something?

[Guest attgig]

Bay's not taking less from anybody. He has the right to see if somebody jumps into the bidding, and in the meantime he's working under the assumption that the Mets believe they need him at least as much as he thinks he needs them.
[/quote:23pvwltf]

the way the media's portraying it, it seems like the Mets need him hellavalot more than Bay needs (or wants) the Mets....