Hot Stove 2009-2010

[Guest Edgy DC]

Great, we have a bet. You get to spend the season rooting for the Mets to suck.

Let's go, Bets!
Let's go, Bets!

[seawolf17]

Edgy DC wrote: Great, we have a bet. You get to spend the season rooting for the Mets to suck. Let's go, Bets! Let's go, Bets!

Unless they don't suck, in which case the bet is off.

[stevejrogers]

Edgy DC wrote: Great, we have a bet. You get to spend the season rooting for the Mets to suck. Let's go, Bets! Let's go, Bets!

Don't twist my words big guy. It's all about me finding it strange about how you have almost Fran Healy-esque KAHN-fidence in the Mets this season, as they are presently constituted. When 99% of Met fandom (this forum seems to be that 1%), the media and other team's fans are going the other way when it comes to this club

[Guest Edgy DC]

Go against the flow sometimes. It's freeing.

If confidence that the team is going to win at least half of their games plus one makes me strange, well, call out the wierdo police. But you're the one going into this with weak knees.

My money is on the metaphorical table. Anybody else want some of this action? Steve's feeling lucky.

[Centerfield]

Other than the mathematical simplicity of it, I don't see why .500 is something worth betting on. I want a legitimate World Series contender. Whether they finish 3rd or 4th means little to me. I think for the Mets to be a post-season team, they are going to need a hell of a lot of luck.

Edgy DC wrote: There's no such thing, where I come, as successful offseasons. Games are still won on the field.

This is just silly. Of course games are won on the field, but what is done in the offseason has a direct impact on the players taking that field.

Successful offseasons don't result in wins. A successful offseason is one where the ballclub manages its resources by bringing in players that maximize their chances of success. I don't see that this has been done this winter. Hence the disappointment.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Yeah, you don't see it, but it's all just a matter of opininon. It's all abstractions until the games are played.

What did the Mets do in the 1983-84 offseason? It appeared pretty inactive. They dealt Bob Bailor and Carlos Diaz to the Dodgers for Sid Fernandez and Ross Jones. Their big free agent signees were Rafael Santana, Dick Tidrow, and Jerry Martin. They released Dave Kingman and Mark Bradley.

Oh, yeah, they also lost their ace by accident.

Judged at the time, it would be seen as far less impactful than this offseason. Yet the restraint was golden and they had a wonderful turnaround. They did crap-all in winter 1968-1969 also.

[stevejrogers]

Edgy DC wrote: Yeah, you don't see it, but it's all just a matter of opininon. It's all abstractions until the games are played. What did the Mets do in the 1983-84 offseason? It appeared pretty inactive. They dealt Bob Bailor and Carlos Diaz to the Dodgers for Sid Fernandez and Ross Jones. Their big free agent signees were Rafael Santana, Dick Tidrow, and Jerry Martin. They released Dave Kingman and Mark Bradley. Oh, yeah, they also lost their ace by accident. Judged at the time, it would be seen as far less impactful than this offseason. Yet the restraint was golden and they had a wonderful turnaround. They did crap-all in winter 1968-1969 also.

BUT, they still had Keith Hernandez in the fold, they still had great blue chip prospects either on the 25 man roster (Strawberry) or about ready to be called up (Gooden) and the farm was far from as barren as it is today. There was no reason to be an Eeyore about the prospects for the 1984 Mets.

[Guest Edgy DC]

You give me Ketih Hernandez, I'll give you David Wright, Jose Reyes, Carlos Beltran, and Johan Santana.

Steve, if you're an Eeyore, it's because you woke up in the morning and decided to be an Eeyore.

[stevejrogers]

Edgy DC wrote: You give me Ketih Hernandez, I'll give you David Wright, Jose Reyes, Carlos Beltran, and Johan Santana. Steve, if you're an Eeyore, it's because you woke up in the morning and decided to be an Eeyore.

Left his swing in the parking lot
Needs to stay healthy and stop sulking and dancing too much
Needs to stay healthy
Needs to stay healthy and stop making excuses for pitching poorly.

[G-Fafif]

Edgy DC wrote: Yeah, you don't see it, but it's all just a matter of opininon. It's all abstractions until the games are played. What did the Mets do in the 1983-84 offseason? It appeared pretty inactive. They dealt Bob Bailor and Carlos Diaz to the Dodgers for Sid Fernandez and Ross Jones. Their big free agent signees were Rafael Santana, Dick Tidrow, and Jerry Martin. They released Dave Kingman and Mark Bradley. Oh, yeah, they also lost their ace by accident. Judged at the time, it would be seen as far less impactful than this offseason. Yet the restraint was golden and they had a wonderful turnaround. They did crap-all in winter 1968-1969 also.

Was that Pat Misch recast in the role of September callup Ron Darling last year?

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Needs to shut up

[Guest Edgy DC]

Steve what are you drinking right now?

[metirish]

Steve's next podcast will be a riot .

[stevejrogers]

Edgy DC wrote: I'll give you David Wright, Jose Reyes.

Not to mention, it seems like maybe its time everyone realized that these guys aren't the guys that we thought they were going to be after 2006. That they are not going to be the legends that it seemed they were hyped to be in 2007.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Which, true or not, isn't what we're talking about.

You're spinning out of control so rapidly, I imagine you've fallen to the ground and thrown up by now. Just keep the vomit off my hunnit dollas.

[stevejrogers]

Edgy DC wrote: Which, true or not, isn't what we're talking about. You're spinning out of control so rapidly, I imagine you've fallen to the ground and thrown up by now. Just keep the vomit off my hunnit dollas.

It is relevant since you brought it up in comparative to the Mets having Keith Hernandez, who didn't lose any luster in 1983, on their 1984 roster.

[Centerfield]

Edgy DC wrote: Yeah, you don't see it, but it's all just a matter of opininon. It's all abstractions until the games are played. What did the Mets do in the 1983-84 offseason? It appeared pretty inactive. They dealt Bob Bailor and Carlos Diaz to the Dodgers for Sid Fernandez and Ross Jones. Their big free agent signees were Rafael Santana, Dick Tidrow, and Jerry Martin. They released Dave Kingman and Mark Bradley. Oh, yeah, they also lost their ace by accident. Judged at the time, it would be seen as far less impactful than this offseason. Yet the restraint was golden and they had a wonderful turnaround. They did crap-all in winter 1968-1969 also.

I think you are now arguing a different point. Or at least, I am understanding your point to be a different one.

I think it's clear that a team's offseason will have a direct on the games to be played the next year. (How different is 1999 if the Mets don't re-sign Piazza and trade for Leiter?)

But I agree with you that sometimes it's hard to tell whether an off-season has been successful or not until you see how the season plays out. Sometimes the off-season sucks, but the team is good anyway. This is true.

But most of the time, they suck.

[Valadius]

May I ask why we think second base is such a pressing priority, and why so many people think Orlando Hudson has remained in a state of suspended animation since 2005?

[Guest Edgy DC]

Steve, if you're going to dismiss the presence of Johan Santana with "Needs to stay healthy and stop making excuses for pitching poorly" while holding up Keith Hernandez as unblemished, if you're going to dismiss the presence of four guys aged 27, 27, 31, and 33 with 15 total All Star appearances as being somehow incomparable to one 30 year old with two, I don't know what to do. I honor you with logic and you cover me in shit.

Everybody needs to stay healthy.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Rogers, you're a disgrace to yankee fans.

[stevejrogers]

Valadius wrote: May I ask why we think second base is such a pressing priority, and why so many people think Orlando Hudson has remained in a state of suspended animation since 2005?

Because Luis Castillo stinks and the 2010 Orlando Hudson is a more superior player.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Me, I think the biggest neglect of the winter has been the lack of a new starting pitcher.

Second to that, I would have liked them to add somebody to hold down first base until Ike Davis is ready. Delgado would have been nice. Murphy and Tatis might end up doing fine.

I think the Mets will be reasonably okay at second base and catcher and in the bullpen.

I just wish they had added an experienced starting pitcher.

[Guest Edgy DC]

[Guest attgig]

just to throw a little fuel to the fire:
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/fantasy/dc/

basebal prospectus projected mets record:
New York Mets 79 83

[Centerfield]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Me, I think the biggest neglect of the winter has been the lack of a new starting pitcher. Second to that, I would have liked them to add somebody to hold down first base until Ike Davis is ready. Delgado would have been nice. Murphy and Tatis might end up doing fine. I think the Mets will be reasonably okay at second base and catcher and in the bullpen. I just wish they had added an experienced starting pitcher.

It's funny because I thought they needed another bat more than a pitcher. I don't know, something makes me think Fernando Nieve might be something. I think overall I feel better about Nieve, Niese and Figueroa than I do about Murphy, Davis and Franceour.

[Valadius]

SteveJRogers wrote: Valadius wrote: May I ask why we think second base is such a pressing priority, and why so many people think Orlando Hudson has remained in a state of suspended animation since 2005? Because Luis Castillo stinks and the 2010 Orlando Hudson is a more superior player.

Orlando Hudson is only two years younger than Luis Castillo. He's 32. Not only that, but he's only marginally better than Castillo offensively. I'm of the opinion that there are more pressing priorities (namely catcher, first base, and pitching) than second base right now. Lest you forget, Luis Castillo finished fourth this year in Schaefer points. Now why would we give him so many Schaefer points if we all thought he was terrible?

[ashie62]

If 90 percent of making the Mets better is a return to health by many ..then Omar did the other 10 percent to fill er up.

So, you get Santos and Muffy starting, I hope the do great

I only wish an established SP was acquired, or may be.

[duan]

Edgy DC wrote: Steve, if you're going to dismiss the presence of Johan Santana with "Needs to stay healthy and stop making excuses for pitching poorly" while holding up Keith Hernandez as unblemished, if you're going to dismiss the presence of four guys aged 27, 27, 31, and 33 with 15 total All Star appearances as being somehow incomparable to one 30 year old with two, I don't know what to do. I honor you with logic and you cover me in shit. Everybody needs to stay healthy.

what's hilarious about the Keith Hernandez line is that at that time he was DOING LOTS OF THEM
and while I don't particularly care about recreational drug use, it could hardly be considered *the best thing* for an athlete to be engaged in if you're depending (pun not intended) on him, the way Steve Rogers seems to think everyone was.

[stevejrogers]

Valadius wrote: Valadius wrote: May I ask why we think second base is such a pressing priority, and why so many people think Orlando Hudson has remained in a state of suspended animation since 2005? Because Luis Castillo stinks and the 2010 Orlando Hudson is a more superior player. Orlando Hudson is only two years younger than Luis Castillo. He's 32. Not only that, but he's only marginally better than Castillo offensively. I'm of the opinion that there are more pressing priorities (namely catcher, first base, and pitching) than second base right now. Lest you forget, Luis Castillo finished fourth this year in Schaefer points. Now why would we give him so many Schaefer points if we all thought he was terrible?

Seriously Val? You are basing Castillo's performance last year on a message board's PoTG voting?

Another reason why he should have been jettisoned is that it would have been a sign that the Mets are committed to once again changing the culture of the clubhouse, which lets be honest really does need a good shake up. Ala what happened in heading into 2005 when Martinez and Beltran were brought in.

[stevejrogers]

duan wrote: Edgy DC wrote: Steve, if you're going to dismiss the presence of Johan Santana with "Needs to stay healthy and stop making excuses for pitching poorly" while holding up Keith Hernandez as unblemished, if you're going to dismiss the presence of four guys aged 27, 27, 31, and 33 with 15 total All Star appearances as being somehow incomparable to one 30 year old with two, I don't know what to do. I honor you with logic and you cover me in shit. Everybody needs to stay healthy. what's hilarious about the Keith Hernandez line is that at that time he was DOING LOTS OF THEM and while I don't particularly care about recreational drug use, it could hardly be considered *the best thing* for an athlete to be engaged in if you're depending (pun not intended) on him, the way Steve Rogers seems to think everyone was.

Fair enough duan, but was Keith's issues known by the public at large at the time or was that during the 1985 trials?