Hot Stove 2009-2010

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

bmfc1 wrote: You're baiting me, counselor. No, he didn't do squat. There are/were 2 players that could have helped the team that wanted to play for the Mets but he didn't sign them: Hudson and Marquis. Piniero was ready to sign but Omar crapped around. Getting 2 of those 3 would have constituted an improvement. Bay is a great addition but it's nullified by the Beltran injury . So my point still stands: Omar did not improve the Mets. The "5th starter" will be Nieve, Neise, Misch or Figueroa. Is that an improvement? At best, they are a .500 team. Do you, JCL, think that the Mets are improved--other than by health (hopefully)?

Sorry, I knew I was being a dick when I hit submit.

Yes, I think they'll be better, and I don't necessarily care whether the GM sees to that by adding guys or not adding guys. And I like Nieve and Niese.

[bmfc1]

"Come on you Mets"

Agreed.

Less than one month until the first ST game. No matter how bad things look, I can't wait for a Mets game.

[bmfc1]

Thanks JCL. To fine-line it, and this is where I was going with my "snarky" message, I don't think that Omar has improved the team but that doesn't mean that they won't have a better record.

[Guest Edgy DC]

metirish wrote: They may well suck and they may well not be much better than last season but I just can't go into the season thinking that my team is done for already. Come on you Mets

You need the comma of direct address in there. Else you're committing the Critical Cosby Confusion.

[seawolf17]

Hey, what Bill Cosby does in his personal time is his business.

[Benjamin Grimm]

As long as the "People" fully consent.

[metirish]

Edgy is giddy after being allowed to keep his editor's cap.

[metirish]

Heyman

Yorvit Torrealba is closing in on a one-year deal with the San Diego Padres that is believed to be worth less than $2 million, SI.com has confirmed.

[stevejrogers]

it's not that they don't have the money, it's that they're not offering the money. Good.

You know, at what point do the Wilpons wake up and realize there is a difference between a smart big market team and making dumb big splashes (see 1990s Orioles, and Rangers for those examples along with past Met forays into big FA spending sprees).

Say what you will about lazy journalists and self-loathing fans, but the patterns that form over the years do show that the Mets really do have a small market mentality when it comes to improving the team.

Go for the gusto one year, uh-oh that was an epic fail alright lets do nothing the next off-season. Vicious cycle over and over again.

Also, didn't the Mets promise that this off-season would be an aggressive one?

From MetBlog back in October:

In October, just one day after the season ended, Mets GM Omar Minaya and COO Jeff Wilpon spent one hour in studio talking with WFAN�s Mike Francesa. �What happens this year between free-agents and trades, and whatever Omar wants to do to get us back to being a Championship-caliber team, will be up to Omar,� Wilpon said in October, acknowledging that his team will continue to have one of the highest payrolls in baseball. �We�re going to be aggressive, we have to be, whether it�s in trades or free agents,� Wilpon added. �We are in a results town, in a results business.� In addition, he said, Minaya and his staff will always work to build a team around �pitching, speed and defense,� and so Ownership built a ballpark with that in mind; because, as Minaya pointed out, it is easier to win when playing �National League baseball,� and when pitching strong. In terms of acquisitions, Minaya said he intended on looking at the trade market this off season, �to see how we can change it up,� because they could not just limit themselves to the free-agent market. Similarly, Wilpon said he felt the team had �two or three holes,� all which Minaya could fill through a combination of free-agent signings and trades. In the end, Wilpon said the team would not make a big-ticket acquisition just for marketing purposes, or in an effort to sell tickets, concluding, �The team will be as aggressive as it has been in the past.�

Funny how all those statements I put in bold did not come to fruition.

It's going to be another frustrating, sub-.500 season, I really don't see where any optimism iis coming from, nor do I see why you'd say that it was "good" that the Mets didn't spend money, except for Bay but you can easily swap Delgado out and put him in, this year.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Say what you will about lazy journalists and self-loathing fans, but the patterns that form over the years do show that the Mets really do have a small market mentality when it comes to improving the team.

Yeah, I will say what I will.

Go for the gusto one year, uh-oh that was an epic fail alright lets do nothing the next off-season. Vicious cycle over and over again.

They haven't done nothing.

Also, didn't the Mets promise that this off-season would be an aggressive one?

Maybe, but dont' folks insist that they don't want the Wilpons running the club?

Two or three holes. The team arguably filled two of them with signings and the offseason continues. Whatever. I hope they don't trade anybody.

[stevejrogers]

Edgy DC wrote: Two or three holes. The team arguably filled two of them with signings and the offseason continues. Whatever. I hope they don't trade anybody.

Yeah, Jason Bay wasn't a signing done to shut up "Mets aren't signing anyone/No one wants to come here" peeps and to give a nice shiny thing to market and sell tickets.

Where else do you think the Mets improved? Sarge Jr.? More "Proven Crap" for the bullpen corps? You're going to call THAT filling holes?

2nd base and catcher are still major question marks, Reyes' health and Wright's mental state are also major question marks as well. To say nothing about the fact that the rotation is Santana, three question marks and who knows what as well as another go-round of a bullpen corps cobbled together with hope and prayers as a bridge to Rodriguez.

How does this team look like anything resembling an over-.500 squad?

[stevejrogers]

Maybe, but dont' folks insist that they don't want the Wilpons running the club?

Of course THEY do, but folks insist they don't want (insert politician's name here) as their (insert office here), doesn't mean they can't continue to call them out when they make statements that turn out completely and utterly false.

[Benjamin Grimm]

SteveJRogers wrote: Yeah, Jason Bay wasn't a signing done to shut up "Mets aren't signing anyone/No one wants to come here" peeps and to give a nice shiny thing to market and sell tickets.

I think it was primarily done to get a slugging left fielder.

SteveJRogers wrote: Reyes' health and Wright's mental state are also major question marks as well.

So what should they have done about that this winter? Get replacements for both players?

SteveJRogers wrote: To say nothing about the fact that the rotation is Santana, three question marks and who knows what... How does this team look like anything resembling an over-.500 squad?

I'm with you on that. They needed to address their pitching and they haven't, and they don't appear like they're going to. They do look like around a .500 team to me.

[metirish]

What's wrong with Wright and mental issuses?

[stevejrogers]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: SteveJRogers wrote: Reyes' health and Wright's mental state are also major question marks as well. So what should they have done about that this winter? Get replacements for both players?

No, I was just listing all the problems facing the Mets in October, obviously there doesn't seem, well in Reyes' case anyway, to be any cause to do anything about those particular problems.

[Benjamin Grimm]

metirish wrote: What's wrong with Wright and mental issuses?

He thinks he's Marlene Dietrich. Sad, really.

[stevejrogers]

metirish wrote: What's wrong with Wright and mental issuses?

Did you see Wright all year? The guy changed his swing heading into Citi Field and never got whatever it was that made him an MVP candidate back. Alright, its hyperbole, but the whole "messing with a swing" does sound more like a mental problem than messing with a pitcher's mechanics which could, and does, lead to actual physical issues.

[MFS62]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: metirish wrote: What's wrong with Wright and mental issuses? He thinks he's Marlene Dietrich. Sad, really.

Nahhh.
Marlene said she "vanted to be alone".
David doesn't mind the cameras and reporters.
I believe he thinks he's Kim Kardashian.

Later

[stevejrogers]

Look, the point is that I really don't see how anyone can sit there and say that this off-season was a successful one, and that the Mets will be an improved team in 2010. The of-fseason has been an epic fail, and the Mets as presently constituted look like a team that will struggle to get to 70 wins, much less 81.

[DocTee]

I, too, would have liked to see the Mets address their rotation, but it is what it is. 2009 was a perfect storm of injuries and bad play. A healthy team this year (with last year's roster) gets 80 wins...adding Bay and the other pieces should up that a few too.

I doubt if the Mets will be in the playoffs, but not as mush as I doubt SJR's prognostication of 70 wins.

[Guest Edgy DC]

SteveJRogers wrote: Edgy DC wrote: Two or three holes. The team arguably filled two of them with signings and the offseason continues. Whatever. I hope they don't trade anybody. Yeah, Jason Bay wasn't a signing done to shut up "Mets aren't signing anyone/No one wants to come here" peeps and to give a nice shiny thing to market and sell tickets. Where else do you think the Mets improved? Sarge Jr.? More "Proven Crap" for the bullpen corps? You're going to call THAT filling holes? 2nd base and catcher are still major question marks, Reyes' health and Wright's mental state are also major question marks as well. To say nothing about the fact that the rotation is Santana, three question marks and who knows what as well as another go-round of a bullpen corps cobbled together with hope and prayers as a bridge to Rodriguez. How does this team look like anything resembling an over-.500 squad?

Steve, I'm really not into indulging your sarcasm, but if you want to throw a hundred bucks on the line regarding the team exceeding (or not) .500, I'm all about that. Name your charity.

There's no such thing, where I come, as successful offseasons. Games are still won on the field.

[batmagadanleadoff]

I'm also a sport. I'll take the Mets winning more than 70 games. My favorite charity is me.

[stevejrogers]

Edgy DC wrote: Edgy DC wrote: Two or three holes. The team arguably filled two of them with signings and the offseason continues. Whatever. I hope they don't trade anybody. Yeah, Jason Bay wasn't a signing done to shut up "Mets aren't signing anyone/No one wants to come here" peeps and to give a nice shiny thing to market and sell tickets. Where else do you think the Mets improved? Sarge Jr.? More "Proven Crap" for the bullpen corps? You're going to call THAT filling holes? 2nd base and catcher are still major question marks, Reyes' health and Wright's mental state are also major question marks as well. To say nothing about the fact that the rotation is Santana, three question marks and who knows what as well as another go-round of a bullpen corps cobbled together with hope and prayers as a bridge to Rodriguez. How does this team look like anything resembling an over-.500 squad? Steve, I'm really not into indulging your sarcasm, but if you want to throw a hundred bucks on the line regarding the team exceeding (or not) .500, I'm all about that. Name your charity. There's no such thing, where I come, as successful offseasons. Games are still won on the field.

Deal. We'll work out the details when it becomes mathematically impossible.

[Guest Vince Coleman Firecracker]

Two or three holes. The team arguably filled two of them with signings and the offseason continues.

?

I assume one of the holes filled (that's what she said) was left field. What other hole do you think the team had that was filled?

My list of team holes (and by "hole" I mean area the team needed to improve by at least a win or so if it is going to take the division) going into the offseason looked like this:

LF- filled
SP
C
SP
2B
RF
1B

And, of course, the always-necessary bullpen additions (which, I add, I don't think Omar's getting enough credit for. The bullpen looks pretty strong and the additions didn't cost much.)

What did/does your list look like? Not being snarky, Edge, just curious.

Oh, and I suspect the Mets will win over 81 games, but I'm not so sure that'd I'd bet a hundred on it.

[stevejrogers]

SteveJRogers wrote: SteveJRogers wrote: Two or three holes. The team arguably filled two of them with signings and the offseason continues. Whatever. I hope they don't trade anybody. Yeah, Jason Bay wasn't a signing done to shut up "Mets aren't signing anyone/No one wants to come here" peeps and to give a nice shiny thing to market and sell tickets. Where else do you think the Mets improved? Sarge Jr.? More "Proven Crap" for the bullpen corps? You're going to call THAT filling holes? 2nd base and catcher are still major question marks, Reyes' health and Wright's mental state are also major question marks as well. To say nothing about the fact that the rotation is Santana, three question marks and who knows what as well as another go-round of a bullpen corps cobbled together with hope and prayers as a bridge to Rodriguez. How does this team look like anything resembling an over-.500 squad? Steve, I'm really not into indulging your sarcasm, but if you want to throw a hundred bucks on the line regarding the team exceeding (or not) .500, I'm all about that. Name your charity. There's no such thing, where I come, as successful offseasons. Games are still won on the field. Deal. We'll work out the details when it becomes mathematically impossible.

Of course, you have to add in the caveat that the roster remain for the most part unchanged. Orlando Hudson and a stud starter walk into the PSL clubhouse, or Citi Field in June, or something like that, changes the parameters of the bet.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Vince Coleman Firecracker wrote: My list of team holes (and by "hole" I mean area the team needed to improve by at least a win or so if it is going to take the division) going into the offseason looked like this ... What did/does your list look like? Not being snarky, Edge, just curious.

Well, that's one way of definiing filling a hole, but many positions are likely going to improve by a half a win just by doing nothing (probably schort, left, center, an a slot or two in the rotation). Nothing, of course, has been actually "filled" until the wins are counted. But I consider the adding of Kelvim Excobar and Ryota Igarashi to have been a smart way to add depth to the bullpen.

[Guest Edgy DC]

SteveJRogers wrote: Of course, you have to add in the caveat that the roster remain for the most part unchanged. Orlando Hudson and a stud starter walk into the PSL clubhouse, or Citi Field in June, or something like that, changes the parameters of the bet.

Steve, you weasel.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Boo, Rogers, you suck. You should give $100 to charity just for wasting our time with these convictions of yours you can't even stand behind.

[Guest Vince Coleman Firecracker]

Edgy DC wrote: Vince Coleman Firecracker wrote: My list of team holes (and by "hole" I mean area the team needed to improve by at least a win or so if it is going to take the division) going into the offseason looked like this ... What did/does your list look like? Not being snarky, Edge, just curious. Well, that's one way of definiing filling a hole, but many positions are likely going to improve by a half a win just by doing nothing (probably schort, left, center, an a slot or two in the rotation). Nothing, of course, has been actually "filled" until the wins are counted. But I consider the adding of Kelvim Excobar and Ryota Igarashi to have been a smart way to add depth to the bullpen.

OK. Cool. The work Omar did for the bullpen and LF looks pretty good to me, too. And while I do think the team will get a half win better by doing nothing at some of the positions I listed (1B and the two SP slots seem like good candidates for that), I think they can easily be a half win (or more) worse at 2B, C and RF.

For me, this offseason hasn't been a disaster at all, but I'd be lying if I said I'm not disappointed with how many useful free agents wound up on other teams so far.

[stevejrogers]

Edgy DC wrote: SteveJRogers wrote: Of course, you have to add in the caveat that the roster remain for the most part unchanged. Orlando Hudson and a stud starter walk into the PSL clubhouse, or Citi Field in June, or something like that, changes the parameters of the bet. Steve, you weasel.

Not saying that Hudson would be akin to a Mike Piazza, but you'd have to admit that reeling in a big fish as opposed to plugging in Proven Crap or making a sideways trade like Church for Francouer is a game changer when it comes to a season's outlook.

Even if the season turns out as expected (1983).

Alright fine then, forget the caveat. I don't expect Omar to do any game changing moves anyway, he hasn't proven that he can do that so far in his Met tenure.