Making a Case for Halladay

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Hey, man. It would be fresh.

[metirish]

Your not literally making a case are you?


The way I see it is like this.......how many teams out there can give Halladay the big fat contract extension he will command . I would think that JP would not trade him within the division despite what Harper and the other fools say.

So that leaves the Mets ......done and dusted...

[TransMonk]

I'd take him, but I don't think it will happen.

I'd love to see Milwaukee get in the mix for him. I think he would push them over the edge this year and next.

But, he'll probably either stay in Toronto or go to Philly.

[smg58]

I'm for it.

[Centerfield]

I'll send them Jonathan Niese and Nick Evans.

They start asking for Argenis Reyes, I hang up the phone.

[Guest Edgy DC]

You're for it at what price?

[Guest Edgy DC]

="Centerfield":21dzpnxl]I'll send them Jonathan Niese and Nick Evans. They start asking for Argenis Reyes, I hang up the phone.[/quote:21dzpnxl] Assuming that brings him, what kind of extension do you offer?

metirish Jul 15 2009 11:29 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 15 2009 11:37 AM

Harry Leroy Halladay lll (Doc) would get $100 million for five years

attgig Jul 15 2009 11:30 AM

I'm less concerned about actually trying to get Halladay, as I am worried that the Phils will land Halladay.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 15 2009 11:35 AM

I wouldn't necessarily balk at including Fernando Martinez.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 15 2009 11:38 AM

Right? I mean could you live with "Santana., 4 other guys and a bottom-half farm system" or "Santana, Halladay, 3 other dudes and the worst farm system ever" I'd always prefer developing our own Halladays in a matter of taste, but this scenario is fun to think about too.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 15 2009 11:42 AM

$100-110 mil over five years sounds like the ballpark (think about the per-annum/contract length for Burnett-- who's the same age, if much less accomplished-- and Lowe). Any package that gets him now has to include Fernando Martinez and Niese, as well as a system-stripping number of throw-ins (one of Mejia and Holt, Gee, Flores), doesn't it?

Edgy DC Jul 15 2009 11:47 AM

They have developed their own Halladay and his name is Bobby Parnell. If the SHaMs start Parnell, by August, the notion that we were once interested in selling the farm for Halladay (and giving him $100 mills+ over five years) will seem quaint.

Frayed Knot Jul 15 2009 12:31 PM

Biggest difference between the Halladay and Santana situations is that Johan was more than 3 years younger when he got to the Mets as compared to what RH is now (just turned 29 vs 32 + change). Halladay comes with a contract for the remainder of this year plus next. Who knows if and what he'd want beyond that - and he has a full no-trade clause to help make it happen - but whatever it is would start at age 34.

smg58 Jul 15 2009 03:07 PM

="Edgy DC":1w8w744z]You're for it at what price?[/quote:1w8w744z] I'm guessing the magic number is four, based on the Johan deal. So I'll offer Wil Flores, Daniel Murphy, Brad Holt and a PTBNL -- John Maine if he passes a postseason physical, Jon Niese otherwise. Willets Point Jul 15 2009 07:25 PM All I need is a Halladay. Fman99 Jul 15 2009 07:56 PM ="Edgy DC":1wweomsw]They have developed their own Halladay and his name is Bobby Parnell. If the SHaMs start Parnell, by August, the notion that we were once interested in selling the farm for Halladay (and giving him $100 mills+ over five years) will seem quaint.[/quote:1wweomsw] Wow, I've been drinking for a few hours now, but this seems euphoric even to me. I love it. metirish Jul 15 2009 08:16 PM You crack me up fman Ashie62 Jul 15 2009 08:22 PM ="Edgy DC":1tcz4d67]They have developed their own Halladay and his name is Bobby Parnell. If the SHaMs start Parnell, by August, the notion that we were once interested in selling the farm for Halladay (and giving him $100 mills+ over five years) will seem quaint.[/quote:1tcz4d67] Son, is this some sort of a sick joke? Edgy DC Jul 15 2009 10:42 PM Call my bluff and start him. MFS62 Jul 16 2009 08:00 AM I agree with Edgy - let's see what Parnell can do as a starter. Also Halliday, Holliday, Shmaliday, Shmoliday, Joel Sherman put his two cents in intimating Minata hasn't been trying: http://www.nypost.com/seven/07162009/sports/mets/holliday_slumber_shows_omars_failures_179579.htm?&page=0 Later Ashie62 Jul 16 2009 08:11 AM ="Edgy DC":3f7k326p]Call my bluff and start him.[/quote:3f7k326p] Edgy. I was actually joking..Earlier in the year I posted giving Parnell a shot as a starter but the common response was he couldn't bring heat for more than an inning or 2 and he didn't have enough pitches. If the season gets uglier come late August I'm all for starting him for a 5 or 6 start sample. Edgy DC Jul 16 2009 08:26 AM I don't recall that exchange. I understand steering guys with a limited array of pitches toward the pen, but there are plenty of guys who've succeeded as starters with only two pitches. There are plenty more who throw their third or fourth pitch only five times a game. Centerfield Jul 16 2009 09:31 AM If you're a two pitch starter, but pitches are plus pitches. Parnell has a good fastball, ok slider. I see him in middle relief. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 16 2009 10:07 AM Parnell's slider is just okay. Iffy command, middling movement. Also, he didn't throw nearly as hard when starting (91-92 rather than 95-96). Since his slider is 86-87, that would make his speed differential just about 5 mph... meaning that hitters wouldn't have to adjust their timing significantly to hit his "off-speed" stuff. Unless he does some serious workshopping on the slider and/or a third pitch, and that work proves successful, there are significantly better options in Niese and/or Holt for late-season show-me starts.

[metirish]

Harry Leroy Halladay lll (Doc) would get $100 million for five years

[Guest attgig]

I'm less concerned about actually trying to get Halladay, as I am worried that the Phils will land Halladay.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I wouldn't necessarily balk at including Fernando Martinez.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Right?

I mean could you live with "Santana., 4 other guys and a bottom-half farm system" or "Santana, Halladay, 3 other dudes and the worst farm system ever"

I'd always prefer developing our own Halladays in a matter of taste, but this scenario is fun to think about too.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

$100-110 mil over five years sounds like the ballpark (think about the per-annum/contract length for Burnett-- who's the same age, if much less accomplished-- and Lowe).

Any package that gets him now has to include Fernando Martinez and Niese, as well as a system-stripping number of throw-ins (one of Mejia and Holt, Gee, Flores), doesn't it?

[Guest Edgy DC]

They have developed their own Halladay and his name is Bobby Parnell.

If the SHaMs start Parnell, by August, the notion that we were once interested in selling the farm for Halladay (and giving him $100 mills+ over five years) will seem quaint.

[Frayed Knot]

Biggest difference between the Halladay and Santana situations is that Johan was more than 3 years younger when he got to the Mets as compared to what RH is now (just turned 29 vs 32 + change).

Halladay comes with a contract for the remainder of this year plus next. Who knows if and what he'd want beyond that - and he has a full no-trade clause to help make it happen - but whatever it is would start at age 34.

[smg58]

="Edgy DC":1w8w744z]You're for it at what price?[/quote:1w8w744z] I'm guessing the magic number is four, based on the Johan deal. So I'll offer Wil Flores, Daniel Murphy, Brad Holt and a PTBNL -- John Maine if he passes a postseason physical, Jon Niese otherwise.

Willets Point Jul 15 2009 07:25 PM

All I need is a Halladay.

Fman99 Jul 15 2009 07:56 PM

="Edgy DC":1wweomsw]They have developed their own Halladay and his name is Bobby Parnell. If the SHaMs start Parnell, by August, the notion that we were once interested in selling the farm for Halladay (and giving him $100 mills+ over five years) will seem quaint.[/quote:1wweomsw] Wow, I've been drinking for a few hours now, but this seems euphoric even to me. I love it. metirish Jul 15 2009 08:16 PM You crack me up fman Ashie62 Jul 15 2009 08:22 PM ="Edgy DC":1tcz4d67]They have developed their own Halladay and his name is Bobby Parnell. If the SHaMs start Parnell, by August, the notion that we were once interested in selling the farm for Halladay (and giving him $100 mills+ over five years) will seem quaint.[/quote:1tcz4d67] Son, is this some sort of a sick joke? Edgy DC Jul 15 2009 10:42 PM Call my bluff and start him. MFS62 Jul 16 2009 08:00 AM I agree with Edgy - let's see what Parnell can do as a starter. Also Halliday, Holliday, Shmaliday, Shmoliday, Joel Sherman put his two cents in intimating Minata hasn't been trying: http://www.nypost.com/seven/07162009/sports/mets/holliday_slumber_shows_omars_failures_179579.htm?&page=0 Later Ashie62 Jul 16 2009 08:11 AM ="Edgy DC":3f7k326p]Call my bluff and start him.[/quote:3f7k326p] Edgy. I was actually joking..Earlier in the year I posted giving Parnell a shot as a starter but the common response was he couldn't bring heat for more than an inning or 2 and he didn't have enough pitches. If the season gets uglier come late August I'm all for starting him for a 5 or 6 start sample. Edgy DC Jul 16 2009 08:26 AM I don't recall that exchange. I understand steering guys with a limited array of pitches toward the pen, but there are plenty of guys who've succeeded as starters with only two pitches. There are plenty more who throw their third or fourth pitch only five times a game. Centerfield Jul 16 2009 09:31 AM If you're a two pitch starter, but pitches are plus pitches. Parnell has a good fastball, ok slider. I see him in middle relief. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 16 2009 10:07 AM Parnell's slider is just okay. Iffy command, middling movement. Also, he didn't throw nearly as hard when starting (91-92 rather than 95-96). Since his slider is 86-87, that would make his speed differential just about 5 mph... meaning that hitters wouldn't have to adjust their timing significantly to hit his "off-speed" stuff. Unless he does some serious workshopping on the slider and/or a third pitch, and that work proves successful, there are significantly better options in Niese and/or Holt for late-season show-me starts.

[Willets Point]

All I need is a Halladay.

[Fman99]

="Edgy DC":1wweomsw]They have developed their own Halladay and his name is Bobby Parnell. If the SHaMs start Parnell, by August, the notion that we were once interested in selling the farm for Halladay (and giving him $100 mills+ over five years) will seem quaint.[/quote:1wweomsw] Wow, I've been drinking for a few hours now, but this seems euphoric even to me. I love it.

metirish Jul 15 2009 08:16 PM

You crack me up fman

Ashie62 Jul 15 2009 08:22 PM

="Edgy DC":1tcz4d67]They have developed their own Halladay and his name is Bobby Parnell. If the SHaMs start Parnell, by August, the notion that we were once interested in selling the farm for Halladay (and giving him $100 mills+ over five years) will seem quaint.[/quote:1tcz4d67] Son, is this some sort of a sick joke? Edgy DC Jul 15 2009 10:42 PM Call my bluff and start him. MFS62 Jul 16 2009 08:00 AM I agree with Edgy - let's see what Parnell can do as a starter. Also Halliday, Holliday, Shmaliday, Shmoliday, Joel Sherman put his two cents in intimating Minata hasn't been trying: http://www.nypost.com/seven/07162009/sports/mets/holliday_slumber_shows_omars_failures_179579.htm?&page=0 Later Ashie62 Jul 16 2009 08:11 AM ="Edgy DC":3f7k326p]Call my bluff and start him.[/quote:3f7k326p] Edgy. I was actually joking..Earlier in the year I posted giving Parnell a shot as a starter but the common response was he couldn't bring heat for more than an inning or 2 and he didn't have enough pitches. If the season gets uglier come late August I'm all for starting him for a 5 or 6 start sample. Edgy DC Jul 16 2009 08:26 AM I don't recall that exchange. I understand steering guys with a limited array of pitches toward the pen, but there are plenty of guys who've succeeded as starters with only two pitches. There are plenty more who throw their third or fourth pitch only five times a game. Centerfield Jul 16 2009 09:31 AM If you're a two pitch starter, but pitches are plus pitches. Parnell has a good fastball, ok slider. I see him in middle relief. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 16 2009 10:07 AM Parnell's slider is just okay. Iffy command, middling movement. Also, he didn't throw nearly as hard when starting (91-92 rather than 95-96). Since his slider is 86-87, that would make his speed differential just about 5 mph... meaning that hitters wouldn't have to adjust their timing significantly to hit his "off-speed" stuff. Unless he does some serious workshopping on the slider and/or a third pitch, and that work proves successful, there are significantly better options in Niese and/or Holt for late-season show-me starts.

[metirish]

You crack me up fman

[ashie62]

="Edgy DC":1tcz4d67]They have developed their own Halladay and his name is Bobby Parnell. If the SHaMs start Parnell, by August, the notion that we were once interested in selling the farm for Halladay (and giving him $100 mills+ over five years) will seem quaint.[/quote:1tcz4d67] Son, is this some sort of a sick joke?

Edgy DC Jul 15 2009 10:42 PM

Call my bluff and start him.

MFS62 Jul 16 2009 08:00 AM

I agree with Edgy - let's see what Parnell can do as a starter. Also Halliday, Holliday, Shmaliday, Shmoliday, Joel Sherman put his two cents in intimating Minata hasn't been trying: http://www.nypost.com/seven/07162009/sports/mets/holliday_slumber_shows_omars_failures_179579.htm?&page=0 Later

Ashie62 Jul 16 2009 08:11 AM

="Edgy DC":3f7k326p]Call my bluff and start him.[/quote:3f7k326p] Edgy. I was actually joking..Earlier in the year I posted giving Parnell a shot as a starter but the common response was he couldn't bring heat for more than an inning or 2 and he didn't have enough pitches. If the season gets uglier come late August I'm all for starting him for a 5 or 6 start sample. Edgy DC Jul 16 2009 08:26 AM I don't recall that exchange. I understand steering guys with a limited array of pitches toward the pen, but there are plenty of guys who've succeeded as starters with only two pitches. There are plenty more who throw their third or fourth pitch only five times a game. Centerfield Jul 16 2009 09:31 AM If you're a two pitch starter, but pitches are plus pitches. Parnell has a good fastball, ok slider. I see him in middle relief. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 16 2009 10:07 AM Parnell's slider is just okay. Iffy command, middling movement. Also, he didn't throw nearly as hard when starting (91-92 rather than 95-96). Since his slider is 86-87, that would make his speed differential just about 5 mph... meaning that hitters wouldn't have to adjust their timing significantly to hit his "off-speed" stuff. Unless he does some serious workshopping on the slider and/or a third pitch, and that work proves successful, there are significantly better options in Niese and/or Holt for late-season show-me starts.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Call my bluff and start him.

[MFS62]

I agree with Edgy - let's see what Parnell can do as a starter.

Also Halliday, Holliday, Shmaliday, Shmoliday, Joel Sherman put his two cents in intimating Minata hasn't been trying:

http://www.nypost.com/seven/07162009/sports/mets/holliday_slumber_shows_omars_failures_179579.htm?&page=0

Later

[ashie62]

="Edgy DC":3f7k326p]Call my bluff and start him.[/quote:3f7k326p] Edgy. I was actually joking..Earlier in the year I posted giving Parnell a shot as a starter but the common response was he couldn't bring heat for more than an inning or 2 and he didn't have enough pitches. If the season gets uglier come late August I'm all for starting him for a 5 or 6 start sample.

Edgy DC Jul 16 2009 08:26 AM

I don't recall that exchange. I understand steering guys with a limited array of pitches toward the pen, but there are plenty of guys who've succeeded as starters with only two pitches. There are plenty more who throw their third or fourth pitch only five times a game.

Centerfield Jul 16 2009 09:31 AM

If you're a two pitch starter, but pitches are plus pitches. Parnell has a good fastball, ok slider. I see him in middle relief.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jul 16 2009 10:07 AM

Parnell's slider is just okay. Iffy command, middling movement. Also, he didn't throw nearly as hard when starting (91-92 rather than 95-96). Since his slider is 86-87, that would make his speed differential just about 5 mph... meaning that hitters wouldn't have to adjust their timing significantly to hit his "off-speed" stuff. Unless he does some serious workshopping on the slider and/or a third pitch, and that work proves successful, there are significantly better options in Niese and/or Holt for late-season show-me starts.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I don't recall that exchange.

I understand steering guys with a limited array of pitches toward the pen, but there are plenty of guys who've succeeded as starters with only two pitches. There are plenty more who throw their third or fourth pitch only five times a game.

[Centerfield]

If you're a two pitch starter, but pitches are plus pitches. Parnell has a good fastball, ok slider. I see him in middle relief.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Parnell's slider is just okay. Iffy command, middling movement.

Also, he didn't throw nearly as hard when starting (91-92 rather than 95-96). Since his slider is 86-87, that would make his speed differential just about 5 mph... meaning that hitters wouldn't have to adjust their timing significantly to hit his "off-speed" stuff.

Unless he does some serious workshopping on the slider and/or a third pitch, and that work proves successful, there are significantly better options in Niese and/or Holt for late-season show-me starts.