How did we suck tonight? ... let us count the ways

[Frayed Knot]

As I said in the IGT, this was the worst and most frustrating game of the year

- THREE runners erased off basepaths, including two of them at home

- score early and then take the rest of the night off (I've seen that movie before and I know how it ends)

- bad defense by Castillo/Delgado on the potential DP ball at 1st (yeah it was a bad call but still)

- bad night by Murphy all around but especilly brutal in the field. The fall down was bad enough but even early on he air-mailed a throw to 3rd he had no business making allowing the batter to turn a single into a double

- too many walks (Duh!)

- and the usual lack of timely hits, especially later on




Feel free to add more

[batmagadanleadoff]

That pratfall was straight out of the 1962 playbook. Throw in the Beltran non-slide and whaddya expect on a night when some other Met named Casey makes his debut. Fossum is the first -- and only -- Met player in team history named Casey.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Jerry left Ollie out too long.

Jerry had Church bunt a guy to second with no out. Leave yourself no margin for error and get screwed when a guy makes an error.

Getting thrown out at home? Sure, whatever, but slide. Murphy, Beltran, slide.

Castillo, help Beltran out. I'm not of the belief that he play was all in front of Beltran. the ball came from the left side of the mound.

Bench Murphy, Beltran, and Castillo tomorrow. Start Racienello if you have to.

[Frayed Knot]

Jerry left Ollie out too long

Maybe, but I'm not going to kill him for that



Jerry had Church bunt a guy to second with no out. Leave yourself no margin for error and get screwed when a guy makes an error.

I didn't like that either. I guess he was thinking lefty/lefty and trying to not set Castro up for the GiDP



Getting thrown out at home? Sure, whatever, but slide. Murphy, Beltran, slide.

He simply assumed he was going to be safe just like Delgado simply assumed he was going to get the call and therefore didn't feel the need to tag Pujols going by.




Castillo, help Beltran out. I'm not of the belief that he play was all in front of Beltran. the ball came from the left side of the mound.

Probably true, I didn't see where LC was.



Bench Murphy, Beltran, and Castillo tomorrow. Start Racienello if you have to.

Murphy for sure. Would also be interesting to know how many that are/will be complaining how his defense is killing us in LF were demanding over the winter that he be installed at 2B

[Guest Edgy DC]

He may be better at second.

I want him benched for not sliding (even though he was a dead duck) and throwing to the wrong bag, more than for falling down (which he did twice during the game).

As for "not going to kill him," I'm not killing him. I'm counting the ways we sucked.

[seawolf17]

I was pissed at Looie on the Beltran play too, but realistically, I don't know. By all rights, Beltran's at third on that play. There's no real reason for Castillo to race to home plate, because they play didn't develop until after the ball bounced off Thurston... and even then, it was Carlos's call to run, not Razor's. Razor was pointing him back to the bag, but Carlos figured (correctly) that he could make it. Castillo wouldn't have had enough time to race over there and help. Beltran's gotta know to either slide or take out Molina on that play.

I think he left Ollie out there too long also, and I thought Fossum was a bad choice.

And yes, Murphy's dreadful in left field, but he's an infielder; he came up as a third baseman. I'm not saying third and second are the same, but it's certainly less ground to cover than he has now in left field. Plus, at second base, his arm isn't as exposed.

I don't think Murphy's the answer, but it's just too soon to say. Maybe he's more Gregg Jefferies than we think.

[Guest Edgy DC]

On deck batter has to get in position the moment the ball is in play.

[seawolf17]

="Edgy DC":1thpo759]On deck batter has to get in position the moment the ball is in play.[/quote:1thpo759] True. And since so many of the mistakes were fundamentals today, that's part of the equation. But Beltran was at second base when the play started; it was a routine sac fly. Should Luis have been there? Probably, but it's more on Carlos than it is on Luis.

Gwreck Apr 21 2009 09:47 PM

I'm down with the benching of Murphy and Beltran tonight. Just really bad baserunning to go with Murphy's really bad fielding. Jeremy Reed could use a start.

mario25 Apr 22 2009 05:02 AM

I think it is time to make a switch in LF for awhile. Murphy is killing this team out there and he could use some time in Buffalo to learn the position. I think having Sheff out there with Tatis spelling him would be better right now and probably not to big of a dropoff in offense. The Mets cant continue to lose games like this after the last 2 summers. Murphy looks awful out there and throws the baseball to the wrong base alot. He needs some time to learn the position and the Mets cant afford him to learn on the fly and cost games.

Nymr83 Apr 22 2009 06:16 AM

="mario25":2t0ajh2w]I think it is time to make a switch in LF for awhile. Murphy is killing this team out there and he could use some time in Buffalo to learn the position. I think having Sheff out there with Tatis spelling him would be better right now and probably not to big of a dropoff in offense. The Mets cant continue to lose games like this after the last 2 summers. Murphy looks awful out there and throws the baseball to the wrong base alot. He needs some time to learn the position and the Mets cant afford him to learn on the fly and cost games.[/quote:2t0ajh2w] Murphy is hitting pretty well right now, I'd keep him on the big club as long as that continued, but if he goes into a slump i wouldnt be against taking the opportunity to let him learn the position better in buffalo. meanwhile, let sheffield steal his ABs not Church's!! Edgy DC Apr 22 2009 07:03 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 22 2009 07:30 AM It's not like he didn't already get 32 games in the outfield last season (and aquit himself, let's remember, better than he has so far this year). Best candidates for a callup right now are Fernando (7 doubles) Martinez --- if you're ready for further controversy --- and Bobby Kielty, but he's hitting .231 and can't be slotted against lefties with Gary Sheffield and Fernando Tatis. Suddenly, the Mets bench is righty heavy. Benjamin Grimm Apr 22 2009 07:08 AM Kielty, according to the Daily News this morning, has a bruised knee and will be out for a few weeks. Fman99 Apr 22 2009 07:08 AM Sloppy and frustrating to watch. Gave me the brain pain. soupcan Apr 22 2009 07:14 AM Ugh. Murphy and Beltran. G-Fafif Apr 22 2009 07:56 AM And those 80-pitch drills obviously didn't come with men in scoring position. Vic Sage Apr 22 2009 09:25 AM ]Jerry left Ollie out too long. listening on the radio, you could tell that Howie was practically begging Manuel to lift Perez before he imploded. Why is it everybody can see it coming but our manager? ]Jerry had Church bunt a guy to second with no out. Leave yourself no margin for error and get screwed when a guy makes an error. the other day, Jerry got killed for NOT BUNTING with Tatis. I think he overreacted to that criticism. Hey, Jerr... BIFL! ]Getting thrown out at home? Sure, whatever, but slide. Murphy, Beltran, slide. I heard Beltran explain the lack of a slide with "i looked up and was too close to home to slide." say what? First of all, you knew when you took off from 3rd that you were heading to the plate, right Carlos? So you were caught unaware when you got there? And even if your mind wandered and your arrival at home came as such a surprise, then why aren't you barreling the catcher over? Beltran, you are as soft as custard in August. ]Castillo, help Beltran out. I'm not of the belief that he play was all in front of Beltran. the ball came from the left side of the mound. Castillo has nothing to do with this. Slide or Collide, Carlos. Man up, you donkey. ]Bench Murphy, Beltran, and Castillo tomorrow. Start Racienello if you have to. How about Wright, and his 4rbi? Is he off the hook? Edgy DC Apr 22 2009 09:40 AM ="Vic Sage"] ]Jerry left Ollie out too long. listening on the radio, you could tell that Howie was practically begging Manuel to lift Perez before he imploded. Why is it everybody can see it coming but our manager? Gary Cohen was commenting on this at the time. He pointed at Jerry's remarkably candid statement about bullpen usage a few weeks back, saying that he has to remind himself that he's managing for a win, rather than to get a guy credited with a save. Similarly, sometimes managers have to remind themselves that they are managing for a win, rather than to get a guy credited with a win. Joe Torre in the 2000 series pulled Denny Neagle with two out in the fourth so David Cone and Laredo could get Mike Piazza in a tight spot. It was the world series and there was no time for futzing around to pad stats. Well, I'd say that in the big leagues, mostly all the time is no time for futzing around to pad stats. Edgy DC Apr 22 2009 09:43 AM ="Vic Sage":nfsqwiqm]How about Wright, and his 4rbi? Is he off the hook?[/quote:nfsqwiqm] I'm not sure what you mean here. Wright had one RBI. Frayed Knot Apr 22 2009 10:56 AM I thinking he means his 4 for the season Between that and Ryan Church's Two! Rib-eyes pretty much sums up things so far. Both have a decent amount of hits leading to far less damage then one would expect. ]I heard Beltran explain the lack of a slide with "i looked up and was too close to home to slide." say what? First of all, you knew when you took off from 3rd that you were heading to the plate, right Carlos? So you were caught unaware when you got there? And even if your mind wandered and your arrival at home came as such a surprise, then why aren't you barreling the catcher over? I think he simply assumed he was going to be safe until the speed with which the StL 3rd baseman retrieved the ball surprised him. By then he resorted to the long final stride in order to get in but landed on Molina's foot instead.

[Gwreck]

I'm down with the benching of Murphy and Beltran tonight. Just really bad baserunning to go with Murphy's really bad fielding. Jeremy Reed could use a start.

[Guest mario25]

I think it is time to make a switch in LF for awhile. Murphy is killing this team out there and he could use some time in Buffalo to learn the position. I think having Sheff out there with Tatis spelling him would be better right now and probably not to big of a dropoff in offense. The Mets cant continue to lose games like this after the last 2 summers. Murphy looks awful out there and throws the baseball to the wrong base alot. He needs some time to learn the position and the Mets cant afford him to learn on the fly and cost games.

[nymr83]

="mario25":2t0ajh2w]I think it is time to make a switch in LF for awhile. Murphy is killing this team out there and he could use some time in Buffalo to learn the position. I think having Sheff out there with Tatis spelling him would be better right now and probably not to big of a dropoff in offense. The Mets cant continue to lose games like this after the last 2 summers. Murphy looks awful out there and throws the baseball to the wrong base alot. He needs some time to learn the position and the Mets cant afford him to learn on the fly and cost games.[/quote:2t0ajh2w] Murphy is hitting pretty well right now, I'd keep him on the big club as long as that continued, but if he goes into a slump i wouldnt be against taking the opportunity to let him learn the position better in buffalo. meanwhile, let sheffield steal his ABs not Church's!!

Edgy DC Apr 22 2009 07:03 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 22 2009 07:30 AM

It's not like he didn't already get 32 games in the outfield last season (and aquit himself, let's remember, better than he has so far this year). Best candidates for a callup right now are Fernando (7 doubles) Martinez --- if you're ready for further controversy --- and Bobby Kielty, but he's hitting .231 and can't be slotted against lefties with Gary Sheffield and Fernando Tatis. Suddenly, the Mets bench is righty heavy.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 22 2009 07:08 AM

Kielty, according to the Daily News this morning, has a bruised knee and will be out for a few weeks.

Fman99 Apr 22 2009 07:08 AM

Sloppy and frustrating to watch. Gave me the brain pain.

soupcan Apr 22 2009 07:14 AM

Ugh. Murphy and Beltran.

G-Fafif Apr 22 2009 07:56 AM

And those 80-pitch drills obviously didn't come with men in scoring position.

Vic Sage Apr 22 2009 09:25 AM

]Jerry left Ollie out too long. listening on the radio, you could tell that Howie was practically begging Manuel to lift Perez before he imploded. Why is it everybody can see it coming but our manager? ]Jerry had Church bunt a guy to second with no out. Leave yourself no margin for error and get screwed when a guy makes an error. the other day, Jerry got killed for NOT BUNTING with Tatis. I think he overreacted to that criticism. Hey, Jerr... BIFL! ]Getting thrown out at home? Sure, whatever, but slide. Murphy, Beltran, slide. I heard Beltran explain the lack of a slide with "i looked up and was too close to home to slide." say what? First of all, you knew when you took off from 3rd that you were heading to the plate, right Carlos? So you were caught unaware when you got there? And even if your mind wandered and your arrival at home came as such a surprise, then why aren't you barreling the catcher over? Beltran, you are as soft as custard in August. ]Castillo, help Beltran out. I'm not of the belief that he play was all in front of Beltran. the ball came from the left side of the mound. Castillo has nothing to do with this. Slide or Collide, Carlos. Man up, you donkey. ]Bench Murphy, Beltran, and Castillo tomorrow. Start Racienello if you have to. How about Wright, and his 4rbi? Is he off the hook?

Edgy DC Apr 22 2009 09:40 AM

="Vic Sage"] ]Jerry left Ollie out too long. listening on the radio, you could tell that Howie was practically begging Manuel to lift Perez before he imploded. Why is it everybody can see it coming but our manager? Gary Cohen was commenting on this at the time. He pointed at Jerry's remarkably candid statement about bullpen usage a few weeks back, saying that he has to remind himself that he's managing for a win, rather than to get a guy credited with a save. Similarly, sometimes managers have to remind themselves that they are managing for a win, rather than to get a guy credited with a win. Joe Torre in the 2000 series pulled Denny Neagle with two out in the fourth so David Cone and Laredo could get Mike Piazza in a tight spot. It was the world series and there was no time for futzing around to pad stats. Well, I'd say that in the big leagues, mostly all the time is no time for futzing around to pad stats.

Edgy DC Apr 22 2009 09:43 AM

="Vic Sage":nfsqwiqm]How about Wright, and his 4rbi? Is he off the hook?[/quote:nfsqwiqm] I'm not sure what you mean here. Wright had one RBI. Frayed Knot Apr 22 2009 10:56 AM I thinking he means his 4 for the season Between that and Ryan Church's Two! Rib-eyes pretty much sums up things so far. Both have a decent amount of hits leading to far less damage then one would expect. ]I heard Beltran explain the lack of a slide with "i looked up and was too close to home to slide." say what? First of all, you knew when you took off from 3rd that you were heading to the plate, right Carlos? So you were caught unaware when you got there? And even if your mind wandered and your arrival at home came as such a surprise, then why aren't you barreling the catcher over? I think he simply assumed he was going to be safe until the speed with which the StL 3rd baseman retrieved the ball surprised him. By then he resorted to the long final stride in order to get in but landed on Molina's foot instead.

[Guest Edgy DC]

It's not like he didn't already get 32 games in the outfield last season (and aquit himself, let's remember, better than he has so far this year).

Best candidates for a callup right now are Fernando (7 doubles) Martinez --- if you're ready for further controversy --- and Bobby Kielty, but he's hitting .231 and can't be slotted against lefties with Gary Sheffield and Fernando Tatis. Suddenly, the Mets bench is righty heavy.

Edited April 22, 2009 by Guest

[Benjamin Grimm]

Kielty, according to the Daily News this morning, has a bruised knee and will be out for a few weeks.

[Fman99]

Sloppy and frustrating to watch. Gave me the brain pain.

[soupcan]

Ugh.

Murphy and Beltran.

[G-Fafif]

And those 80-pitch drills obviously didn't come with men in scoring position.

[Vic Sage]

]Jerry left Ollie out too long.

listening on the radio, you could tell that Howie was practically begging Manuel to lift Perez before he imploded. Why is it everybody can see it coming but our manager?

]Jerry had Church bunt a guy to second with no out. Leave yourself no margin for error and get screwed when a guy makes an error.

the other day, Jerry got killed for NOT BUNTING with Tatis. I think he overreacted to that criticism. Hey, Jerr... BIFL!

]Getting thrown out at home? Sure, whatever, but slide. Murphy, Beltran, slide.

I heard Beltran explain the lack of a slide with "i looked up and was too close to home to slide." say what? First of all, you knew when you took off from 3rd that you were heading to the plate, right Carlos? So you were caught unaware when you got there? And even if your mind wandered and your arrival at home came as such a surprise, then why aren't you barreling the catcher over? Beltran, you are as soft as custard in August.

]Castillo, help Beltran out. I'm not of the belief that he play was all in front of Beltran. the ball came from the left side of the mound.

Castillo has nothing to do with this. Slide or Collide, Carlos. Man up, you donkey.

]Bench Murphy, Beltran, and Castillo tomorrow. Start Racienello if you have to.

How about Wright, and his 4rbi? Is he off the hook?

[Guest Edgy DC]

="Vic Sage"] ]Jerry left Ollie out too long. listening on the radio, you could tell that Howie was practically begging Manuel to lift Perez before he imploded. Why is it everybody can see it coming but our manager?

Gary Cohen was commenting on this at the time. He pointed at Jerry's remarkably candid statement about bullpen usage a few weeks back, saying that he has to remind himself that he's managing for a win, rather than to get a guy credited with a save. Similarly, sometimes managers have to remind themselves that they are managing for a win, rather than to get a guy credited with a win.

Joe Torre in the 2000 series pulled Denny Neagle with two out in the fourth so David Cone and Laredo could get Mike Piazza in a tight spot. It was the world series and there was no time for futzing around to pad stats.

Well, I'd say that in the big leagues, mostly all the time is no time for futzing around to pad stats.

[Guest Edgy DC]

="Vic Sage":nfsqwiqm]How about Wright, and his 4rbi? Is he off the hook?[/quote:nfsqwiqm] I'm not sure what you mean here. Wright had one RBI.

Frayed Knot Apr 22 2009 10:56 AM

I thinking he means his 4 for the season Between that and Ryan Church's Two! Rib-eyes pretty much sums up things so far. Both have a decent amount of hits leading to far less damage then one would expect. ]I heard Beltran explain the lack of a slide with "i looked up and was too close to home to slide." say what? First of all, you knew when you took off from 3rd that you were heading to the plate, right Carlos? So you were caught unaware when you got there? And even if your mind wandered and your arrival at home came as such a surprise, then why aren't you barreling the catcher over? I think he simply assumed he was going to be safe until the speed with which the StL 3rd baseman retrieved the ball surprised him. By then he resorted to the long final stride in order to get in but landed on Molina's foot instead.

[Frayed Knot]

I thinking he means his 4 for the season
Between that and Ryan Church's Two! Rib-eyes pretty much sums up things so far. Both have a decent amount of hits leading to far less damage then one would expect.

]I heard Beltran explain the lack of a slide with "i looked up and was too close to home to slide." say what? First of all, you knew when you took off from 3rd that you were heading to the plate, right Carlos? So you were caught unaware when you got there? And even if your mind wandered and your arrival at home came as such a surprise, then why aren't you barreling the catcher over?

I think he simply assumed he was going to be safe until the speed with which the StL 3rd baseman retrieved the ball surprised him. By then he resorted to the long final stride in order to get in but landed on Molina's foot instead.