Go Get Mark Texiera

[Vic Sage]

If you've got Santana, Maine, and a decent #3 for Delgado, you can sign a retread as a #4 (like a Randy Wolf), and have open tryouts amongst all hands for the 5th slot. I think the Mets have enough AAAA players and prospects-on-the-cusp to find a servicable 5th starter.

[metsmarathon]

psst... pelfrey...

[Guest AG/DC]

I know, right?

I think he's just trying to motivate Pelfrey.

And, honestly, he's like the third would-be GM to look like a misinformed jerkface in this thread. Line starts after me.

[Vic Sage]

DOH!!

geez. Grimm's comment threw me.

1. Santana
2. Pelfrey
3. Maine
4. ___ (via Delgado trade)
5. ___ (via system or FA)

[DocTee]

WATP: Jose Reyes for Jake Peavy and Khalil Greene

[Guest AG/DC]

Greene is not my cup at all.

[Gwreck]

Vic Sage wrote: 4. ___ (via Delgado trade)

Any thoughts as to who?

]5. ___ (via system or FA)

Via system? Not an option.

Via FA? Tons of options.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Gwreck wrote: 5. ___ (via system or FA)

Via system? Not an option.

[Guest AG/DC]

Niese, Vargas, Parnell are your prime contenders. Dark horses are Sal Aguilar, Tobi Stoner (of your Peoria Saguaros), and Jose Sanchez. Michael Antonini is kicking his way up the food chain and so is Dylan Gee, but neither will get a serious lookie.

How viable opening up the fifth slot to a rookie is may depend on how excellent the new guy is.

Edited October 16, 2008 by Guest

[Gwreck]

Niese struck me as needing a half season at Norfolk in '08. I suppose we can find some veterans to eat the innings while we wait for him but I don't particularly like that plan. I guess Vargas or Parnell could step up but counting on them from the start seems like a bad idea.

[Centerfield]

We also have Jason Vargas returning from surgery. I'd throw Heilman into the mix too. See if he can start and get himself out of this rut.

[Guest AG/DC]

I totally said Vargas.

[Centerfield]

You did. We're tied.

[Vic Sage]

Gwreck wrote: ="Vic Sage"]4. ___ (via Delgado trade) Any thoughts as to who? ]5. ___ (via system or FA) Via system? Not an option. Via FA? Tons of options.

as for Delgado, you would think there are some AL teams that need his potential sock. Oakland's got nothig going on at 1b, nor does Cleveland, and both have some pitching to spare. Toronto, too, for that matter. But if Billy Beane has lost confidence in Street to close, or if they don't think Ziegler's the answer either, i'd take either one as part of a deal.

And i think the kind of FA you look to get to fill a 5th slot in the rotation is alot different than pursuing a Sabatha, or somebody like that, so i'm not overly concerned as to whether you go after a bottom of the order inning eater thru FA or thru the system. I'm ok with Santana-Pelfrey-Maine as our top 3 guys. I'd rather invest money in an everyday player under age 30, who is more likely to stay healthy and be productive, then tie up even MORE money (above what we're giving to Santana) in fragile arms.

I think Delgado made himself a commodity thru a strong 2nd half. Lets capitalize on it now, rather than risk him repeating that trick.

[smg58]

The A's aren't in a position where trading for one year of a player in his late thirties would be prudent. The Indians might be moving V-Mart to first, so I wouldn't assume they're looking at first base just yet. (Ironically, Ryan Garko was moved off of catcher because Martinez was in his way, and now he's likely to lose first base to him as well. Given how he finished the season, I think Garko's a good buy low candidate -- provided he's willing/able to catch again.)

You would need to find a genuine contender who has Delgado's equivalent major league worth at a position or positions where they can spare it, along with a need for a 1B or DH. That might not be so easy.

I suppose you could deal him for prospects, but that would mean taking on a significant payroll increase at a position you already had covered without addressing a need.

And while we're on the subject of prospects, we have two first basemen in our system coming off solid years at AA, one of whom also spent a significant amount of time at the big-league level. I don't think it's unreasonable to think that one of them could replace Delgado in 2010.

[Benjamin Grimm]

That's what could make this tricky.

If Carp and/or Evans are legit, then the Mets can save that Texieria money, have Delgado keep the spot warm in 2009 and then give way to one of the young guys in 2010.

But if neither of them works out, then the Mets have passed on a chance to lock up the position for a number of years with a proven player like Texieria. The odds are probably very much against either Evans or Carp producing like Texieria, especially in 2010.

The way I would play this is I'd renew Delgado, and then see if signing Texieria is possible. If he's signed, then you deal Delgado. If not, then you at least have a guy in place for 2009, and 2010 (and beyond) can be addressed later.

[Guest AG/DC]

smg58 wrote: The A's aren't in a position where trading for one year of a player in his late thirties would be prudent.

Dont they go for short-term vet sluggger types often enough to suggest otherwise --- Piazza, Thomas (twice), Sweeney, even Shannon Stewart. Daric Barton gave them nothing at first last year. Delgado costs $12 mills. How much of that do the Mets have to assume before the Oaks are willing to bite?

[smg58]

AG/DC wrote: ="smg58"]The A's aren't in a position where trading for one year of a player in his late thirties would be prudent. Dont they go for short-term vet sluggger types often enough to suggest otherwise --- Piazza, Thomas (twice), Sweeney, even Shannon Stewart. Daric Barton gave them nothing at first last year. Delgado costs $12 mills. How much of that do the Mets have to assume before the Oaks are willing to bite?

Thomas was signed twice on the very cheap. Piazza was a free agent. Sweeney got a minor league deal. Stewart cost them a million. They were all free agents, and outside of Piazza, very highly discounted.

[Centerfield]

Talent like Texiera's doesn't come around every year. Using free-agent money wisely means recognizing these opportunities and taking advantage of them. Teams who fail to do this can end up giving big money contracts to incomplete players simply because they are the best free agents available that year. This is why Carlos Lee got the money he got. Same with Barry Zito, to a lesser extent Johnny Damon. You don't want your organization to be in a position where they have to get better when the free-agent pool is lukewarm.

On the other hand, guys like Beltran or Vlad Guerrero are superstars with complete games. When they come free, you have to jump at them because you don't know what will be available in years to come.

Passing on Texiera this year means hoping, I would say unrealistically, that Delgado/Evans/Carp give you middle of the order production. Or having to find that production somewhere else, say leftfield. None of the leftfield options are as good as Texiera. We have no idea what will be available next year...meaning we could end up in a spot where we don't have the luxury of signing a great player entering his prime.

If Delgado hadn't bounced back, the Mets would have paid him $4 million to walk away and pursued Texiera. They would have been foolish not to. Delgado's resurgence is an unexpected benefit to them. Pick up his option, if you have to eat $4 million to get something back for him, consider it found money and make the best of it.

[Guest AG/DC]

Centerfield wrote: Talent like Texiera's doesn't come around every year.

I think it almost always does these days.

[metsmarathon]

who was the big free agent last year? i cant remember... was there one?

oe. right.... arod...

i don't think he proves edgy's point tho, due to his age and the wackiness of his brief free agency.

[Benjamin Grimm]

There may be one or two big free agents each year, but there's no guarantee that they'll play the position your team most needs to fill.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Last year's free agents, as selected by metsmarathon:

http://cranepoolforum.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=7745&start=0

[Guest AG/DC]

Yeah, last year wasn't a great crop. I'll still stick with my guns.

While I understand the vulnerability at first, I think the position our team most needs to fill are second and corner outfield and the bullpen and back of the rotation.

[smg58]

Centerfield wrote: Passing on Texiera this year means hoping, I would say unrealistically, that Delgado/Evans/Carp give you middle of the order production. Or having to find that production somewhere else, say leftfield. None of the leftfield options are as good as Texiera.

That's absolutely true, but you won't need a superstar to upgrade the outfield from last year. I'd like a good righthanded bat or two in the outfield for security, but it's also possible that a healthy Ryan Church and a full year of Daniel Murphy will suffice.

Nor will you need an elite hitter to upgrade second base; the difference in OPS+ this year between Orlando Hudson and Luis Castillo, for example, was bigger than the difference between Teixeira and Delgado. And the defensive upgrade would be bigger as well.

Also keep in mind that the Mets tied for second in the NL in runs. They scored as many runs as the Phillies, despite the much less generous home park. Offense didn't beat them. You could upgrade the offense a little bit by adding Teixeira, but you could upgrade the pitching a lot with the same money.

[Benjamin Grimm]

The way I see it, getting Texiera would give us a jump on our 2010 shopping, which is fine. But to address 2009, we need two starting pitchers, a bunch of relievers, and answers to second base and left field.

[Vic Sage]

you could fill all those holes, and it won't matter if Delgado reverts to his 1st half form next season. We were a .500 team with his bat in the middle of the lineup, and it wasn't until he started hitting that it got turned around.

I think that his hot 2nd half is just the thing we need to SELL HIGH on him, and fill the slot with an all-star under 30. Then, you fill the lf/2b/#5 starter/bullpen holes, with the delgado trade, other trades, FAs, and the system.

but i don't want to go into next season NEEDING carlos to repeat his 2nd half for a full season for the offense to work. Certainly the BP was primarily to blame for coming up short, but BPs are always a crap shoot and generally a bad place to spend money, whereas if Carlos had a full season, instead of only 1/2 of one, we may have had a much bigger cushion going into that final week. Maybe we'd still blow it and maybe we wouldn't have.

Carlos has given us an asset that is dealable, and i'd rather deal him than count on him. If Carp and/or Evans prove they can hit AAA pitching (which i don't think they've done yet), that gives us more assets, and Evans can play LF. But counting on Delgado next year, and a prospect 2 years from now, while Texiera is currently on the market for nothing more than $$, is, IMO, completely nutsy.

[Gwreck]

I think Delgado's trade value is being generally overestimated.

He'll only have 1 year on the contract;
He'll be 37 next year;
His up-and-down 2007 and crappy first half of 2008 are not secrets.

I don't think we can count on getting anything special for him. It's not necessarily an argument against Texieria, but worth considering. Especially if $$$ is no object, or presumed to be.

[Vic Sage]

Gwreck wrote: I think Delgado's trade value is being generally overestimated. He'll only have 1 year on the contract; He'll be 37 next year; His up-and-down 2007 and crappy first half of 2008 are not secrets. I don't think we can count on getting anything special for him. It's not necessarily an argument against Texieria, but worth considering. Especially if $$$ is no object, or presumed to be.

first of all, $$$ is always an object.

secondly, we don't need to get anything special for him, just a competent 4th starter. If we can move his $12m contract for a guy who can give us league average numbers and around 200 IP, we can pursue Texiera, play Murphy at either LF or 2b, patch the other slot and pursue BP help (ie, Fuentes).

[Frayed Knot]

The fact that Delgado's only on a 1-year contract makes him more attractive to a number of teams (or at least attractive to more teams) since the risk is less.