Top Buc Winners (Split from 2009 Draft Order)

[metirish]

Thanks for that FK , apparently Pittsburgh have a decent front office now so hopefully things will get better for them. Don't know why but I like them .

[Guest AG/DC]

I do also. I know why.

• Classic uniforms.


• Ralph Kiner.


• An interesting town that spawned a few of my friends.


• Honus Wagner.


• Donn Clendenon.


• Frank Thomas.


• The Lumber Co.


• First team to field an all African-American/Afro-Latin lineup.


• Killed by self-destructive heart-over-head maneuvers like rewarding local All-Stars with long-term deals that hamstring them long-term.


• Bob Friend.


• The notion that they've historically been the batting version of the Mets, in that they can build a team Hall of Fame comprised 100% of batters.

Go ahead. Name the top ten winningest pitchers for the Pirates. I dare you.

[metirish]

That's really good Edgy, and I like them for some of those reasons too. One of the coolest tings I ever saw in my short baseball following life was the Wagner Card at a traveling HOF road show. I was in awe.

[Benjamin Grimm]

When I was 8, my favorite non-Mets were Roberto Clemente and Willie Stargell.

The Pirates also won the first World Series I ever watched, in 1971 vs. Baltimore.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Hmmm. Great Pirate pitchers...

uh...

hmmm... top of head...

John Candelaria
Rick Rhoden
Bert Blyleven
Vic Willis
John Smiley
Grant Jackson
John Tudor
Doug Drabek
Bob Walk
Don Robinson
Vern Law
Alejando Pena
Kent Tekulve

[Guest AG/DC]

Alejandro Peña? He played one year for the Bucs and won three games?

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7. [u:3bc0489d59]Vernon Law (JC Bucket)_[/u:3bc0489d59]


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[DocTee]

Elroy Face

Harvey Haddix

Jim Bibby

[seawolf17]

Rhoden wasn't right? I'm surprised.

Steve Blass?

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I wasn't specifically guessing winningest pitchers, just rattling off the pitchers I associate with the Pirates.

Burleigh Grimes.

[Guest AG/DC]

No luck.

Harvey Haddix is a good answer --- long associated with the team as a coach, but he didn't join them as a player until 33.

See how hard this is.

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7. [u:47e323c42c]Vernon Law (1950-1967): 162 (JC Bucket)_[/u:47e323c42c]


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[Fman99]

="AG/DC"]I do also. I know why. Classic uniforms. Ralph Kiner. An interesting town that spawned a few of my friends. Honus Wagner. Donn Clendenon. Frank Thomas. The Lumber Co. First team to field an all African-American/Afro-Latin lineup. Killed by self-destructive heart-over-head maneuvers like rewarding local All-Stars with long-term deals that hamstring them long-term. Bob Friend. The notion that they've historically been the batting version of the Mets, in that they can build a team Hall of Fame comprised 100% of batters. Go ahead. Name the top ten winningest pitchers for the Pirates. I dare you.

Don't forget the 1970's pillbox hats. Funky.

[Fman99]

Bob Friend's gotta be on that list -- he pitched almost his whole career in Pittsburgh.

I can't for the life of me think of another one.

[Guest AG/DC]

By trading Bob to the lousy Yankees, the Pirates inadvertantly rewarded his 16 years of service by denying him a chance at 200 wins.

The Yankees, moving him to the Mets, didn't help him either.

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4. [u:99f462dd71]Bob Friend (1951-1965): 191 (Fman 99)___[/u:99f462dd71]


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7. [u:99f462dd71]Vernon Law (1950-1967): 162 (JC Bucket)_[/u:99f462dd71]


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[seawolf17]

I bet the rest are old-timey Pirates and that's why we don't know them... guys like Harry "Three-Toed" Vaughan, Fred "Big Pussy" Delahanty, and Ducky "Dead Legs" Cronin.

[metirish]

See guys today just don't have great nick names like those one.

Take note Val.

[Guest AG/DC]

You're pretty dead on. Keep in mind that it's a franchise that goes back to the days when "Pittsburgh" was spelled "Pittsburg" and "Pirates" was spelled "Alleghenys."

[u:3f3e48e452]_______________(1912-1924): 202_____[/u:3f3e48e452] [u:3f3e48e452]___________(1907-1926): 194_________[/u:3f3e48e452] [u:3f3e48e452]__________(1898-1910): 194__________[/u:3f3e48e452] [u:3f3e48e452]Bob Friend (1951-1965): 191 (Fman 99)[/u:3f3e48e452] [u:3f3e48e452]________ (1885-1889): 171____________[/u:3f3e48e452] [u:3f3e48e452]________________ (1900-1911): 168____[/u:3f3e48e452] [u:3f3e48e452]Vern Law (1950-1967): 162 (JC Bucket)[/u:3f3e48e452] [u:3f3e48e452]__________ (1924-1933): 143__________[/u:3f3e48e452] [u:3f3e48e452]__________ (1938-1949): 143__________[/u:3f3e48e452] [u:3f3e48e452]__________ (1885-1889, 1891-1892): 137[/u:3f3e48e452]

[Benjamin Grimm]

Wow. I have a feeling that Zane Smith won't be one of the names on that list.

I wonder if, once that chart is filled in, I'll even recognize most of the names.

[Guest Vince Coleman Firecracker]

Pud Galvin? Or do the Alleghenys not count?

[Frayed Knot]

Looks like some of those guys might have pitched for the team when it was called Fort Duquesne

[Guest AG/DC]

VC Firecracker pulls out his Pud and invokes the holder of perhaps the most remarkable pitching season of all time.

Pud falls short of his colleagues by spending 1890 in the Players League.

[u:08ce4a117d]_______________(1912-1924): 202_____[/u:08ce4a117d] [u:08ce4a117d]___________(1907-1926): 194_________[/u:08ce4a117d] [u:08ce4a117d]__________(1898-1910): 194__________[/u:08ce4a117d] [u:08ce4a117d]Bob Friend (1951-1965): 191 (Fman 99)[/u:08ce4a117d] [u:08ce4a117d]________ (1885-1889): 171____________[/u:08ce4a117d] [u:08ce4a117d]________________ (1900-1911): 168____[/u:08ce4a117d] [u:08ce4a117d]Vern Law (1950-1967): 162 (JC Bucket)[/u:08ce4a117d] [u:08ce4a117d]__________ (1924-1933): 143__________[/u:08ce4a117d] [u:08ce4a117d]__________ (1938-1949): 143__________[/u:08ce4a117d] [u:08ce4a117d]Pud Galvin (1885-1889, 1891-1892): 137 (VC Firecracker)[/u:08ce4a117d]

[batmagadanleadoff]

I knew it was gonna be tough to complete this list when Candelaria isn't on it.

Bob Veale? Babe Adams?

Speaking of great Pirate pitchers that pitched in our lifetimes, Rick Reuschel had one great unhittable year in 1985, the Year of Our Doc. And before the Year of Our Doc, Dock Ellis was their ace for a few years.

Willie Stargell was the first Met opponent I truly feared --- but did not hate. I saw the 1971 eventual World Champ Pirates in the first Met game I ever went to, twice. It was a doubleheader.

[Guest AG/DC]

[u:291d733b7e]_______________(1912-1924): 202_____[/u:291d733b7e] [u:291d733b7e]Babe Adams_(1907-1926): 194______ (batmags)[/u:291d733b7e] [u:291d733b7e]__________(1898-1910): 194__________[/u:291d733b7e] [u:291d733b7e]Bob Friend (1951-1965): 191 (Fman 99)[/u:291d733b7e] [u:291d733b7e]________ (1885-1889): 171____________[/u:291d733b7e] [u:291d733b7e]________________ (1900-1911): 168____[/u:291d733b7e] [u:291d733b7e]Vern Law (1950-1967): 162 (JC Bucket)[/u:291d733b7e] [u:291d733b7e]__________ (1924-1933): 143__________[/u:291d733b7e] [u:291d733b7e]__________ (1938-1949): 143__________[/u:291d733b7e] [u:291d733b7e]Pud Galvin (1885-1889, 1891-1892): 137 (VC Firecracker)[/u:291d733b7e]

Bob Veale was done (with the Bucs and pretty much with winning) at 34 and finished with 116 Pitwins.

[batmagadanleadoff]

I didn't notice till just now that you were providing the years in which the pitchers in question pitched for Pittsburgh, as a hint. Otherwise I wouldn't have suggested Veale. It's interesting that it's been over 40 years since any of those top-10 pitchers actually pitched for the Pirates (Law in '67).

[Guest AG/DC]

I think Candeleria may be the best pitcher I ever saw who neither had a Hall of Fame career nor even a great year.

(OE: 1977 was pretty great for him)

[Benjamin Grimm]

It's also pretty hard to get into the Mets top ten, and they're a much younger franchise. Wins are harder to come by now since starters are pitching fewer innings. And players are less likely to stay with a single team long enough to run up big totals.

I wonder if guys like John Maine and Mike Pelfrey will have much of a chance of becoming the fourth Mets pitcher to win 100 games. Santana might. He needs to average about 17 wins per year over the next five guaranteed years of his contract.

1. Tom Seaver 198
2. Dwight Gooden 157
3. Jerry Koosman 140
4. Ron Darling 99
5. Sid Fernandez 98
6. Al Leiter 95
7. Jon Matlack 82
8. David Cone 81
9. Bobby Jones 74
10. Steve Trachsel 66


(Tom Glavine almost made this list. He ended up 5 wins short of Steve Trachsel's total.)

[Guest AG/DC]

I remember the shock when Ed Lynch cracked the top ten.

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

The first names that came to my mind was Steve Blass. Unfortunately, his sudden and mysterious inability to throw the ball over the plate shortened his career and likely kept him from compiling enough wins to make the list. Candelaria was another name that came to mind, but he has alreaady been guessed and fell short of the mark.

I'll take a guess with Doug Drabek and Rip Sewell.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Of the missing guys, the most recent one last pitched for the Pirates in 1949.

[Guest AG/DC]

Drabek came along too late to fit any of those dates. He left the team before he turned 30, with 92 of his 155 career victories in the gold and blac. Not enough to qualify for this list, but enough maybe to make the Yankees regret trading him, Logan Easley and Brian Fisher for Rick Rhoden, Cecilio Guante, and Pat Clements.

Good job coming up with Vanderbilt University's own Truett Banks "Rip" Sewell.

[u:26e408d020]_______________(1912-1924): 202_____[/u:26e408d020] [u:26e408d020]Babe Adams_(1907-1926): 194______ (batmags)[/u:26e408d020] [u:26e408d020]__________(1898-1910): 194__________[/u:26e408d020] [u:26e408d020]Bob Friend (1951-1965): 191 (Fman 99)[/u:26e408d020] [u:26e408d020]________ (1885-1889): 171____________[/u:26e408d020] [u:26e408d020]________________ (1900-1911): 168____[/u:26e408d020] [u:26e408d020]Vern Law (1950-1967): 162 (JC Bucket)[/u:26e408d020] [u:26e408d020]__________ (1924-1933): 143__________[/u:26e408d020] [u:26e408d020]Rip Sewell (1938-1949): 143 (Rockin__ Doc)[/u:26e408d020] [u:26e408d020]Pud Galvin (1885-1889, 1891-1892):__ 137 (VC Firecracker)[/u:26e408d020]

[Gwreck]

AG/DC wrote: I do also. I know why.

Also the nicest ballpark in MLB.