Payroll

[Centerfield]

I wanted to follow up on gwreck's post from the other thread with the numbers. Here are the figures per ESPN.com:

1. Carlos Beltran 18,622,809
2. Johan Santana 16,984,216
3. Carlos Delgado 16,000,000
4. Pedro Martinez 11,813,351
5. Billy Wagner 10,500,000
6. Moises Alou 7,500,000
7. Orlando Hernandez 7,000,000
8. Oliver Perez 6,500,000
9. Luis Castillo 6,250,000
10. David Wright 5,250,000
11. Brian Schneider 4,900,000
12. Jose Reyes 4,375,000
13. Scott Schoeneweis 3,600,000
14. Ryan Church 2,000,000
15. Mike Pelfrey 1,987,500
16. Ramon Castro 1,975,000
17. Endy Chavez 1,800,000
18. Luis Ayala 1,700,000
19 a. Matt Wise 1,200,000
19 b. Aaron Heilman 1,200,000
21. Marlon Anderson 1,050,000
22. Pedro Feliciano 1,025,000
23. Damion Easley 950,000
24. Duaner Sanchez 850,000
25. John Maine 450,000
26. Ambiorix Burgos 415,000
27. Angel Pagan 401,500
28. Joe Smith 398,000
29. Jason Vargas 394,000

Total Team Salary: 137,391,376

We're cutting ties with four of our top 10, and another is due to take a $4 pay cut (Delgado) for a total savings of about $37 million. Rubin says about 5.25 will be eaten up by raises to Reyes, Wright and Santana. If you figure 3-5 million for other raises/arbitration, you have $27 million or so to play with. That $27 million has to buy two starting pitchers, a leftfielder, and re-construct the bullpen.

Looking at these figures illustrates just how bad the Castillo and Schoeneweis contracts are. Brian Schneider is also on the high side considering his production.

(By the way, if anyone wants to format my numbers in a nice clean chart, feel free.)

[Guest Vince Coleman Firecracker]

Will the Wilpons be collecting any insurance money from the Wagner contract? Or is 09 an uninsured year?

[Benjamin Grimm]

I don't think so. That kind of insurance, I think, has become harder to get. The insurers took a big hit on a bunch of contracts and have made it too expensive to insure athletes against injury.

[metirish]

I think it was reported here when he went out that there will be no insurance payout.

Fred is Fucked.

[Guest Vince Coleman Firecracker]

10 million for nothing. Ouch.
Also, I think Maine's arbitration-eligible; but I think he, unlike Perez, wants a long-term deal.

[Guest OlerudOwned]

http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2004/12/new-york-mets.html

Raises:
Santana- $1 Million
Wright- $2.5 Million
Reyes- $1.75 Million
Castro- $650,000
Chavez- $205,000

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

"We're cutting ties with four of our top 10, and another is due to take a $4 pay cut (Delgado) for a total savings of about $37 million. Rubin says about 5.25 will be eaten up by raises to Reyes, Wright and Santana. If you figure 3-5 million for other raises/arbitration, you have $27 million or so to play with. That $27 million has to buy two starting pitchers, a leftfielder, and re-construct the bullpen. "

Now, that's $27 million to play with if they keep payroll flat. But consider that they're moving into Citi Field. Fred's gonna be rolling in dough, even with the Wagner issue.

[TransMonk]

metsguyinmichigan wrote: But consider that they're moving into Citi Field. Fred's gonna be rolling in dough, even with the Wagner issue.

Delgado's making a run at 500 next year. If we keep him, it should put fannies in seats as well.

[Guest AG/DC]

I'm always unhappy --- and I deliberately avoided this with the Bellmore Boys at Buffalo Billiards --- with the angle of "Mets have unlimited resources now that they have a stadium and a network." Other teams have as much and continue to compete with the Mets. Heck, they beat 'em.

Working smart is still as important as working rich.

Edited September 30, 2008 by Guest

[Benjamin Grimm]

I think they'll have plenty of fannies.

Delgado isn't only making a run at 500; he's making a run at Cooperstown.

If his year had continued the way it was going in May, this would probably have been his last season, at least as a regular, and he wouldn't be in the Hall of Fame conversation.

Now, if he continues this year's success he'll get to 500 homers, and will play again somewhere in 2010. If his home run total ends up around 530 to 540, he'll have to get serious consideration from the voters.

I care far more about pennants than I do about plaques, but if Carlos gets some extra motivation from such things, then all the better.

[Guest attgig]

]That $27 million has to buy two starting pitchers, a leftfielder, and re-construct the bullpen.

I think left fielder would be taken over by murphy, unless they're serious about moving him down to 2b (in which case, something could be had for castillo)

I would think one good SP is going to be acquired, while the 5th will be a cheaper option.

leaving the pen for.... hopefully not k-rod, but. every internal option has been used this year, so, there will definitely be a search for at least 3 guys to give the pen something solid to go to. if you estimate 3-5 mil each on those. 12 for a sp... you're near your limit.

but i agree, payroll won't be an object. but it doesn't give minaya free reign to just get the most expensive players out there...

[Benjamin Grimm]

My off-the-cuff prescription for the offseason:

Sign Sabathia, Dunn, and Fuentes and establish Murphy at second.

[metsmarathon]

23+15+8, is my guess.

i don't think blue cross blue shield will cover it...

[Guest Vince Coleman Firecracker]

I'll take K-Rod. I know his peripherals may be down a bit, but he's a really good relief pitcher; and while closers are over-priced, the Mets are one of the few teams in baseball that can reasonably afford to overpay for a luxury like an elite closer at market price. With all the farm talent we might be looking at in left and at first over the next two years or so, I think the Mets might try to save money by playing Murphy, Evans, Martinez, et al at first and left while signing Rodriguez.

To me, there are only three guys in baseball I'd feel completely confident giving the ball to in the ninth:
one is having shoulder surgery this offseason
one was signed to an extension last year
the third is a free agent at the end of the year.

I want him on my team, and I don't particularly care if he costs 18 million a year or whatever he'll be asking for. Watching the bullpen piss away two consecutive seasons, I want it completely rebuilt; and there's no better place to start than by adding the best available arm.

That doesn't leave much money for the rotation, but I'm not a huge believer in any of the SP FAs anyway. Sabathia has been a monster, but he's also been treated like a rented mule by Milwaukee. I wouldn't want to owe him 60 million dollars for his 2012-2014 seasons.

[smg58]

Ayala, Wise, and Easley are another $4 million or so we don't have on the books for next year.

We'll lose the contracts of Wagner, Delgado, and Schoeneweis next season. Assuming either Evans or Carp will be ready to take over at first base in 2010, a healthy amount of money will come off the payroll without needing to be put into replacements. So a little bit of backloading on the free agent deals we make this offseason might prove beneficial.

[metirish]

Do people here really care if the payroll is $100 million or if it's $150 million or somewhere in between , to be honest I don't care .

[smg58]

Vince Coleman Firecracker wrote: I want him on my team, and I don't particularly care if he costs 18 million a year or whatever he'll be asking for. Watching the bullpen piss away two consecutive seasons, I want it completely rebuilt; and there's no better place to start than by adding the best available arm.

The bullpen absolutely does need to be rebuilt, but you can probably get Fuentes and Jeremy Affeldt for less total than K-Rod will cost. And you have multiple needs to fill.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I don't care either. But even as fans, we need to understand the payroll because it impacts what the Mets may or may not do.

If it was up to me, I'd let them stretch the payroll by leaps and bounds. I know, as Edgy said, that a high payroll doesn't guarantee a pennant, but I'd rather see them import top talent than scrounge among the scrap heaps.

It's really not my money. As infrequently as I go to Shea*, they're not getting all that much from me.


*It will take me a long time to stop thinking of a Mets home game as "Shea"

[Guest AG/DC]

The problem is that sometimes a lot of money makes you intellectually lazy.

A case in point is, well, the whole economic world today.

[smg58]

metirish wrote: Do people here really care if the payroll is $100 million or if it's $150 million or somewhere in between , to be honest I don't care .

It's not my money, so I don't really care either. But you have to look at this under the assumption that there's a number above which the ownership won't willingly go.

[Gwreck]

I suppose if you've got a payroll that's way out of alignment with what everybody else spends (see Yankees, New York) you can look kind of stupid.

But you do have a fair point. Unless a lower payroll is going to mean lower ticket prices or lower cable bills (to watch SNY) -- or if higher payroll means higher seat prices, etc. -- then no, I guess I don't care.

[metirish]

I agree that the yankees payroll makes them look like proper dicks , it's not even money spent well.

I think five plus years ago I would worry about the Wilpons and payroll but now with SNY and a new stadium there shouldn't be any such issues.

[Guest AG/DC]

I'll disagree.

Payroll will always have a ceiling somewhere and it's always possible to do something foolsih and counterproductive underneath the ceiling.

[metirish]

Who are you disagreeing with , or what?

[Guest AG/DC]

I think a payroll ceiling will create issues and challenges.

[Vic Sage]

Based on my research, the Mets have about $96M due to 13 players under contract for 2009:

2009 salaries:
1) Johan Santana - $20M
2) Carlos Beltran - $18.5M
3) Carlos Delgado - $12M
4) Billy Wagner - $10.5M (DL)
5) David Wright - $7.5M
6) Luis Castillo - $6M
7) Jose Reyes - $5.75M
8) Brian Schneider - $4.9M
9) Scott Schoeneweis - $3.6M
10) Ramon Castro - $2.5M
11) Endy Chavez - $2.05M
12) Mike Pelfrey ~$2M
13) Marlon Anderson - $1.15M

TOTAL = ~$96.5m

Mets have the following players under their control for `09:

3-6 years of ML service (arb eligible) -
Ryan Church (08=$2M)
Aaron Heilman (08=$1.2M)
Pedro Feliciano (08=$1.025M)
Duaner Sanchez (08=$0.85M)

1-3 years of ML service (NOT arb eligible) -
John Maine (08=$0.45M)
Ambiorix Burgos (08=$0.415M)
Brian Stokes (08=$0.402M)
Angel Pagan (08=$0.4015M)
Joe Smith (08=$0.398M)
Jason Vargas (08=$0.394M)

ALSO:
Adam Bostick
Robinson Cancel
Nick Evans
Nelson Figueroa
Brandon Knight
Eddie Kunz
G. Molina
C.Muniz
D. Murphy
J. Niese
B.Parnell
A.Reyes
C.Aguila
W. Collazo

unrestricted FAs:
Pedro Martinez (08=$11m)
Moises Alou (08=$7.5m)
O.Hernandez (08=$6.5m)
O.Perez (08=$6.5m)
Luis Ayala - (08=$1.7m)
Matt Wise - (08=$1.2m)
T.Armas,jr - (08=$1m)
Damien Easley - (08=$0.95m)
F.Tatis - (08=$0.56m)

ALSO:
R.Martinez
B.Clark
T.Nixon
A.Nunez
R.Rincon
R.Casanova

[Guest Vince Coleman Firecracker]

smg58 wrote: The bullpen absolutely does need to be rebuilt, but you can probably get Fuentes and Jeremy Affeldt for less total than K-Rod will cost. And you have multiple needs to fill.

Doubtless, there are multiple holes to fill. I count 3- a closer and two guys that can get out both lefties and righties. (A relief ace would really be nice, but I don't think that that's Omar's bag). K-Rod's the best closer available. The other two spots can be filled by much cheaper talent or, perhaps, traded for. The quality of middle relief is really hard to predict from year to year, and I think a team is served better by trying to acquire a lot of average arms than by spending money on pitchers who are considered very good.
I really think that K-Rod is one of the very few relievers that will be great every year, and I think that's worth the money he'll make.

[metirish]

What I am trying to say here is that while I think the Wilpon's are responsible with payroll they seem to be flexible enough to cover whatever Minaya wants to add.

[Guest Vince Coleman Firecracker]

="Vic Sage"] 3-6 years of ML service (arb eligible) - Aaron Heilman (08=$1.2M) Pedro Feliciano (08=$1.025M)

Has any player ever been forced to take a paycut because of an arbitration hearing?

[Guest Vince Coleman Firecracker]

Ack! Jay Satan making everything hard to read! Have mercy, Dark Lord!