2009 Mets Thoughts

[soupcan]

Vince Coleman Firecracker wrote: I don't know why I ever turn on that station, besides to listen to the games. I guess I just get bored in the car from time to time. May I suggest listening to the Diane Rehm Show, the Leonard Lopate Show or Dennis Elsas during weekday afternoons? I feel I'm always a happier, smarter person when I remember to do that.

You are absolutely right.

[Guest AG/DC]

I think he's a jerkface just making noise, but Hanley Ramirez is the best asset in baseball right now.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I bailed on WFAN over three years ago. Now I listen to NPR. I too feel smarter and happier.

[Guest Vince Coleman Firecracker]

AG/DC wrote: I think he's a jerkface just making noise, but Hanley Ramirez is the best asset in baseball right now.

If his defensive improvement isn't just a one year fluke, I agree; but up until this season, he's been an absolute butcher in the field. I think he was in the negative fifties on the plus minus system last year.

Edit- nope, he was "only" -37

[metsmarathon]

it really is weird how much he dislikes both wright and reyes...

and of course, on espn radio, michael kay was going on and on about how the mets should retain omar minaya, who's done a good job, but should axe manuel, because he didnt get them into the playoffs and that's the same standard they set for willie (!?)

my head nearly exploded.

manuel should be safer than omar, and reyes and wright are not a/the problem

[soupcan]

metsmarathon wrote: manuel should be safer than omar, and reyes and wright are not a/the problem

I agree - how is Manuel to blame here?

We could see him trying anything and everything to get that bullpen to work. what else could you ask of the guy?

He came into this with a great resume and had immediate success. Injuries to Easley, Maine, Tatis and Wagner completely hamstrung him.

Omar's bullpen's have been horrific the last two seasons.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I agree. Jerry did a decent job with the flawed team that Omar provided him.

I do think Jerry made a few mistakes in his bullpen juggling along the way, but he was in a bad situation. Things were bound to go wrong and no manager could have consistently avoided disaster. The fact that the Mets won so many games after Wagner was lost should be to Jerry's credit.

The Daily News had their keep him/dump him survey yesterday and published the results today. A large majority of fans want to keep Reyes, so this negativity on the airwaves about Jose doesn't seem to be getting through to the fans. The only ones who the fans wanted to dump were Castillo (94%), Pedro (81%), Schoeneweis (91%), Sanchez (77%), Feliciano (70%), Ayala (69%), Heilman (83%) and Omar (60%).

On the "Keep him" list are Reyes (84%), Wright (89%), Beltran (87%), Easley (54%), Murphy (88%), Evans (70%), Church (77%), Perez (52%), Maine (89%), Pelfrey (91%), Smith (72%) , Delgado (73%), and Manuel (74%).

[Guest themetfairy]

I never listen to WFAN. This is where I come for Mets rantings. At least around here we try to back up our rantings with evidence.

[soupcan]

I know - its a bad habit.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Try listening to something else. I predict you'll find the difference refreshing (even if you just listen to radio static) and you won't miss it and you won't want to go back.

[Frayed Knot]

]There are only three 'untouchables' on the Mets - Santana, Beltran and Pelfrey ... that Wright and Reyes are 'non-clutch' performers who should be traded while their value is high ... That if they bring Manuel back they must 'explode the core'. I just don't understand that thinking.

Francesa's problem (with this topic anyway) is that he wholeheartedly believes in the clutch fairy.
His view is that players either possess or lack the 'clutchness' gene and that any patterns associated with such an innate trait show themselves early and are unlikely to change over time.
So in his world if you have a choice of starting Sabathia, Santana, Lincecum or Beckett for a big game you'd be stupid to pick anyone other than Beckett on account of him being a "proven post-season pitcher" even though his season wasn't nearly as good as the others.

Ergo, in the world of the clutch fairy, since Reyes & Wright have NOT fared well enough during the last three Septs/Octs it's proof not only that they haven't but that they haven't because they can't and is a sign that they never will.
So seeing as how those two represent the core (Beltran gets a pass on account of his 2005 October) if the Mets want to "take the next step" they're not going to get there unless a Rollins, Howard, Braun, type of "PCP" player (Proven Clutch Performer) is brought in instead of one or both of them.

[Guest Vince Coleman Firecracker]

Of course, if you've never listened to Francessa, this wouldn't be nearly as funny as it is.

[metirish]

One day last week I was home from work and tuned to YES to see what Francesa was talking about , basically he saying how Wright is terrible in so called big games.......like A-Rod he's a terrible clutch hitter.

[soupcan]

="Vince Coleman Firecracker"]Of course, if you've never listened to Francessa, this wouldn't be nearly as funny as it is.

And it is very funny. Thanks.

[Frayed Knot]

Just flicked on the radio but it sounds like the entire first hour was hashing over the same topic; Met fan callers wanting to hold onto Reyes & Wright and Francesa mocking them for being overly sentimental (sounds a bit like Ira/Sal, no?).

MF is proposing hypothetical deals of either/or for the likes of Utley, Rollins, or Youkilis based on the 'GiGS' theory (grass is greener) that the Mets are sure to come out ahead becuase those guys, unlike the ones here, are "clutch", "gamers", or "winners".
He's also totally dismissing any age difference in the process.

Just looked up a quick example:
Wright 2008: .302/.390/.534 -- and in Sept 2008: .340/.416/.577

Utley 2008: .292/.369/.526 -- and in Sept 2008: .284/.369/.443

But Utley "knows how to get it done" in the clutch.
Wright turns 26 this winter.
Utley turns 30 at the same time and when he was Wright's age had ~ 400 total ABs in the major leagues

[Benjamin Grimm]

Wright-for-Utley is about as close as we can currently get to the legendary Williams-for-DiMaggio non-deal.

[Guest AG/DC]

The only thing the Mets should be doing with Jose Reyes is maybe tacking two more years onto his contract.

[Fman99]

Francesa is a 9.5 on the ****ometer.

Some guys don't come through in the playoffs or late season moments until late in their career. Randy Johnson and Barry Bonds both come to mind.

[metirish]

It can't be easy for MF to kill 5 hours on his own these days.

] based on the 'GiGS' theory (grass is greener)

I like it.....

[Benjamin Grimm]

Fman99 wrote: Francesa is a 9.5 on the ****ometer.

Punch him in the neck!

[Guest Vince Coleman Firecracker]

AG/DC wrote: The only thing the Mets should be doing with Jose Reyes is maybe tacking two more years onto his contract.

Yeah, but that'll probably involve a bit of a pay raise. Not that I'm against it, but I think the Wilpons like having on of the best players in the game working for them for peanuts.

[metirish]

Can we just make John Harper the General Manager?

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

metirish wrote: Can we just make John Harper the General Manager?

Bite your toungue.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Vince Coleman Firecracker wrote: Yeah, but that'll probably involve a bit of a pay raise. Not that I'm against it, but I think the Wilpons like having on of the best players in the game working for them for peanuts.

Nah. They were just saving up for Luis Castillo.

[metirish]

="soupcan"] ="Vince Coleman Firecracker"]Of course, if you've never listened to Francessa, this wouldn't be nearly as funny as it is. And it is very funny. Thanks.

Finally got to view that link last night , quite funny.

David Lennon rebuffs Francesa in his blog.

] Why not trade Jeter and A-Rod? Just listening to Mike Francesa trying to incite Mets fans by repeating over and over again how the Mets should trade Wright or Reyes. Yes, it's true, the Mets have had back-to-back collapses with both of those 20-something All-Stars on their team. So let's make a comparison to the shortstop and third baseman in the Bronx. Obviously Jeter has four World Series rings and A-Rod is a three-time MVP. But the Yankees have not won a World Series since 2000 and have not advanced past the first round of the playoffs since 2004. The Mets, for argument's sake, made it to Game 7 of the NLCS as recently as 2006. Is there something fundamentally wrong with the "core group" of Yankees? Let's take a look at the numbers for Jeter and A-Rod this season. Jeter ... .300/.363/.408 .... 88 R .... 11 HRs ... 69 RBI ... .317 RISP A-Rod ...302/.393/.573 ... 104 R ... 35 HRs ... 103 RBI .. .271 RISP Now let's take a look at the expendable Reyes and Wright: Reyes ... .297/.358.475 ... 113 R ... 16 HRs ... 68 RBI ... .277 RISP Wright ... .302/.390/.534 ...115 R ... 33 HRs ...124 RBI .. .243 RISP Oops. Almost forgot. Let's also throw in their 2008 salaries: Jeter .... $20 million A-Rod .. $27 million Reyes ... $4 million Wright ... $5 million So what core is really the problem here? Does it make any sense, financially or otherwise, for the Mets to trade one of their two, popular young players out of spite? Because they missed the playoffs twice in a row? Because Wright had a tough year in clutch situations? C'mon. Be serious. One other thing. Check out what Wright batted with RISP the previous three years: .310, .365 and .298.

[soupcan]

Well, Francesa would rebut - and has - that you can't compare the four guys - or at least not Jetah.

Jeets has 4 rings and has been a proven clutch performer since he broke inta the majahs.

I agree its a completely assinine propostion. When Mets fans call in to debate with him he says that they are looking at Wright and Reyes through rose-colored glasses. Because the two guys were home-grown, Mets fans have an emotional attachment to them which prevents the fans from viewing the situation objectively.

Even if that were true, Francesa himself has stated in the past - although I'm sure he would deny it if I called him on it - that homegrown stars are worth more to a team and its fan base than free agents.

He's an arrogant, condescending, know-it-all, douchebag who still takes credit for the Mets bringing Piazza to New York.

[metirish]

soupcan wrote: Well, Francesa would rebut - and has - that you can't compare the four guys - or at least not Jetah. Jeets has 4 rings and has been a proven clutch performer since he broke inta the majahs. I agree its a completely assinine propostion. When Mets fans call in to debate with him he says that they are looking at Wright and Reyes through rose-colored glasses. Because the two guys were home-grown, Mets fans have an emotional attachment to them which prevents the fans from viewing the situation objectively. Even if that were true, Francesa himself has stated in the past - although I'm sure he would deny it if I called him on it - that homegrown stars are worth more to a team and its fan base than free agents. He's an arrogant, condescending, know-it-all, douchebag who still takes credit for the Mets bringing Piazza to New York.

I never heard the Piazza thing , what did he claim to do?

[soupcan]

Piazza had just been traded to the Marlins for Sheffield. The Marlins were looking to just dump salary and the whole world knew that Piazza was on the block.

The Mets had an all-star catcher in Hundley and were (according to steve Phillips) satisfied with their catcher. In fact Phillips went to Hundley and personally told him that the Mets were NOT in the market for Piazza.

Francesa and Russo went nuts on the air for days saying that Piazza was more than just an upgrade at catcher - he was the type of player that would turn the franchise around for years to come, etc., etc.

Supposedly Doubleday after hearing days of Francesa rantings, directed Phillips to go after Piazza.

Personally I've always found it hard to believe that a blowhard radio guy convinced an owner to overrule the decisions of his own GM.

[Centerfield]

This, of course, has never been confirmed by Doubleday or Phillips, only by Francessa and Russo.

[soupcan]

Correct.