What's taking so long?

[Guest KC]

Approaching the hour 24.

I care about this shit way too much.

[Guest Rotblatt]

I'm starting to get a little nervous. Silly, probably, but I just don't trust it yet.

Incidentally, I'm down with signing Lohse. He's a pretty decent control pitcher, and he's had experience working from the pen. He could be our long man, and jump in the rotation when Petey and/or El Duque have to spend time on the DL.

Plus, he's only 28. Oh, and his career ERA+ is 95, and he posted a perfect 100 last year while pitching 192.7 innings. A fine insurance option, if you ask me.

[Elster88]

I'm nervous. I thought it was only me.

[Guest themetfairy]

Scared shitless

[Guest KC]

SNY has "good news" re: this after commercials ....

[Frayed Knot]

ESPN is reporting that they're still apart on years, structure & money.

Jon Heyman (SI.com/WFAN) says they're closer; agreement on years (the one remaining plus 6 more) but still haggling over the total amount of dollars and how they're to be distributed.



22 Hours

[Benjamin Grimm]

If this deal falls apart it will be the Second Collapse.

And spring training will start with a big stink hovering over the team.

[seawolf17]

Omar, just GIVE HIM THE FREAKING MONEY.

[Guest AG/DC]

Options. That's the compromise.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Bob Nightengale, USA Today wrote: The Mets, according to a high-ranking official privy to the negotiations, are close to agreeing to a five- or six-year contract extension with Santana that will average about $21.5 million a year. The two sides have until 5 p.m. ET Friday to reach an agreement.

[Fman99]

themetfairy wrote: Scared shitless

I am not scared but I am definitely unsettled. Until he's got the hat on and the jersey over top of the suit coat and tie, I will not relax.

[Guest KC]

11

[metirish]

It is 0 days, 10 hours, 15 minutes and 29 seconds until Friday, February 1, 2008 at 5:00:00 PM (New York time)




From Newsday

] Within the baseball industry, there is near unanimity on these two predictions when it comes to the Mets and Johan Santana: 1. They will come to an agreement on Santana's contract extension by Friday afternoon's 5 o'clock deadline. 2. They won't complete that agreement until 4:59. "[santana's agent Peter Greenberg] is going to take [the Mets] to the last minute," a person familiar with the situation said Thursday night, on the condition of anonymity. Greenberg met with the Mets' brass in Manhattan for a second straight day, and the two sides are slowly finding common ground. According to the source, Santana will likely wind up with a six-year extension for an average annual value of about $23 million a year, on top of the $13.25 million owed to him this season. A signing bonus could be included that would take the total to just over $150 million.

[Frayed Knot]

You wonder if [u:3c5a383df4]either side[/u:3c5a383df4] is willing not only take things to that last minute but also to walk away if they don't get what they want.

I suspect not, both ways.


There's also some mechanism - requiring league approval and such - for extending the deadline. If it came to that they'd probably have to show MLB brass that they're within reach and just need more time to work out the details, as opposed to being hopelessly stuck in the mud and want more time only so they can try to out-bluff the other side.

[soupcan]

How about if the Mets say to the Twins 'We're close but we need more time"

Could the Twins then say - "you know what, we've been roundly ridiculed for this deal and other teams have since basically indicated that if they knew this was all it would've taken to get Johan that they would have ponied up a better package. With this in mind, we think we can now make a better deal so, no Mets, we're not going to grant you any negotiating extension. Deal is now off."

'zat possible?

[Frayed Knot]

Hey, either side can back out for any reason at any time - including using the deadline as a way to kill it while trying to make it look like the other side didn't want to "do what it takes".


I just don't know that Mini-soda wants to re-jump through all those hoops again just to make one of the deals they've already rejected. It's not like someone's going to UP their offer at this point and THEN pay the ransom that the rich and desperate Mets found too steep.

[metsmarathon]

soupcan wrote: How about if the Mets say to the Twins 'We're close but we need more time" Could the Twins then say - "you know what, we've been roundly ridiculed for this deal and other teams have since basically indicated that if they knew this was all it would've taken to get Johan that they would have ponied up a better package. With this in mind, we think we can now make a better deal so, no Mets, we're not going to grant you any negotiating extension. Deal is now off." 'zat possible?

i don't think it's up to the twins, but rather to mlb.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Ken Rosenthal, Fox Sports, 11:09 AM wrote: The Mets are offering Johan Santana by far the highest salary ever for a pitcher under a multiyear contract. However, the structure of the deal remains an issue only hours away from today's 5 p.m. ET deadline to strike a deal, according to major league sources. The Mets' offer is in the range of $22 million per season. The hang-up is that the Mets want the guarantee to be for five years, with vesting options that could extend the deal, sources say. Santana's agents, Peter and Ed Greenberg,, want a guarantee of six or seven years. "We've still got a ways to go, but we're in a lot better position than we were a few days ago," said a source close to the negotiations. There are several ways the two sides could bridge the remaining gap. The Mets could increase their financial offer by giving Santana a signing bonus on top of his $13.25 million salary for next season. The two sides also could adjust the innings threshold on vesting options to make them more easily attainable for Santana. In the end, the Mets simply might guarantee a sixth year. "22.5 times six will get it done," one prominent agent predicted. The total value of such a package would be $135 million.

[Vic Sage]

I think they'll end up in the 7-year / 150M range (including 2008), with the 7th year as an option. Somthing like:

2008 = 13.5M (current contract) + $7.5m bonus
2009 = 21.5M
2010 = 21.5M
2011 = 21.5M
2012 = 21.5M
2013 = 21.5M
2014 = 21.5M (vesting based on IP)

[Guest KC]

Just for the sake of discussion ... does a deal have to be "announced" before
the new team can sit down and talk turkey? Or can (or have) deals been made
quietly and then new terms discussed and agreed to and then it goes public?

I suppose I should know the answer, but I don't.

[Vic Sage]

if you talk contract with a player who is under contract with another team, that is "tampering", i believe.

Mets couldn't officially negotiate until Twins OKed a trade. There was likely some unofficial, carefully worded, backchannel discussions however, for the Mets to assess whether Santana was signable before they made the trade.

[Guest KC]

I'm more focusing on the keeping hush hush and not going public until it's
a done thing on all sides.

I'm not saying this is the case here, but if difficult negotiations are an issue
it would kinda behoove the Twins not to get slammed for three days for not
getting enough if the whole thing never takes place or if the Mets fail they
don't have to explain themselves for not "doing what it takes".

No biggie, probably over wondering.

[metirish]

At first this clock was a gimmick, now it's starting to look scary.

Customized counter

Time until Friday, February 1, 2008 at 5:00:00 PM (New York time)

0 days
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203 minutes
12208 seconds

Alternative version

It is 0 days, 3 hours, 23 minutes and 28 seconds until Friday, February 1, 2008 at 5:00:00 PM (New York time)

[Guest AG/DC]

KC wrote: No biggie, probably over wondering.

I wondered the same thing. Frayed Knot portrayed a scenario where a big trade is kept on the QT for three days as rather unlikely.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Jon Heyman, 2:07 p.m. wrote: Johan Santana and the Mets continue to make progress on a record-setting contract that is expected to make the two-time Cy Young winner a $150-million man, SI.com has learned. People with knowledge of the talks say they expect a deal to be completed by the 5 p.m. EST deadline. Santana and the Mets are discussing a contract extension for six years that is expected to pay Santana close to $22 million a year, according to sources familiar with the talks. In addition, it is believed the Mets may add about $7 million to Santana's $13.25 million salary for 2008.

[RealityChuck]

Technically, the only thing they need to agree on is that Santana waive his no-trade clause.

If he didn't have one, there wouldn't be an issue. Santana would be in orange and blue.

But Santana is not going to waive the clause without something from the Mets, and at this point he's in as strong a negotiating position as he's ever going to be in. After 5:00 he's dependent on the Twins, and he doesn't like that, especially since the Mets are willing to pay a signing bonus that much more than he will get in Minneapolis*.

But there are beginning to be signs that it's done.

*Why are they the Minnesota Twins, and not the Minneapolis Twins (as Newsday used to bill them in the early 60s)? Because if they were the Minneapolis Twins, the entire St. Paul market would have been closed to them. If you think Mets vs. Yankees fans have a rivalry, it's nothing compared to the Minneapolis Millers and St. Paul Saints. And the rivalry spilled over elsewhere: there's the story of the congregation of a Minneapolis church walking out on the minister because he was reading from St. Paul.

[Frayed Knot]

RealityChuck wrote: Technically, the only thing they need to agree on is that Santana waive his no-trade clause. If he didn't have one, there wouldn't be an issue. Santana would be in orange and blue.

The N-T clause is pretty much irrelevent by this point.
The Twins wouldn't get much back unless they agreed to allow this "window" for contract talks, the Mets weren't going to give up all that talent without getting him to sign long-term, and Santa Anna himself (by all reports) also wanted this to be a permanent move rather than one-year stopover.

Once those parameters were in the mix, virtually any player has himself a no-trade deal since he can just kill the trade by making demands he know can't/won't be met.




Supposedly Andrew Marchand on ESPN-1050 is saying that the Santana camp is willing to make concessions off their initial demand of 7 years because he "really wants to be a Met".



One Hour.

[Guest AG/DC]

That's class.

I want the media to know that I, too, am willing to go for a deal of less than seven years because I, too, really want to be a Met.

[seawolf17]

Fred, just GIVE HIM THE FUCKING MONEY.

Thanks.

[Frayed Knot]

WFAN (via Jon Heyman):
MLB "likely to grant an extension" if no agreement reached by the deadline.