A Big CPF "Welcome Back" to Audrey Mulholland!

[bmfc1]

Letter to the Editor, [u:1e5a7d6bb5]The Washington Post[/u:1e5a7d6bb5], 12-08-07:
---------------------------------------------------------------
A Baseball Deal With the Devil?

Saturday, December 8, 2007; A16

Three years ago, I gave up a lifetime of hometown baseball loyalty to the New York Mets to pledge my allegiance to the Washington Nationals so that my daughter could grow up with a hometown team to embrace. It was utterly painless, and our family has fallen in love with the team's spirit and the frequent player interactions with fans. We attend games often.

In the Dec. 4 Sports section, I read that Nationals President Stan Kasten and General Manager Jim Bowden have added Elijah Dukes to the roster; his many accomplishments, by age 23, apparently include death threats against his ex-wife and her children, three arrests for battery and one for assault, drug use, three restraining orders, "at least" five children by four women, and "several" lawsuits for being a deadbeat dad.

And that's off the field. Let's watch what happens when a call doesn't go his way.

Are we to accept that in a world knee-deep in talent in every pursuit that this poor excuse for a ballplayer is the best we can do? Mr. Bowden says Elijah Dukes has the potential to produce 25 to 40 homers a year. Somewhere in an attic there is a portrait of Mr. Bowden.

I don't know what else to say, except "Let's Go, Mets."

AUDREY MULHOLLAND
McLean

[stevejrogers]

Okay Audrey lets see;

Vince Coleman threw firecrackers into a crowd, injuring a young girl

Bret Saberhagen squirted bleach at a bunch of sports writers and injured one of them

Vince Coleman may or may not have beheading a cat

There are countless tales of Gooden and Strawberry's history of possible spousal abuse to say nothing of their battles with their demons, which BTW doesn't just hurt the addict but the addict's family and friends as well.

A case can be made that Carlos Delgado's stance against God Bless America and the National Anthem is hypocritical and Un-American considering since 2005 he has been working in the United States, and therefore he is not a person worthy of anyone's affection.

Guillermo Mota WAS suspended for steroids and wound up being resigned by the Mets

The Mets have had their fair share of players have whispers of PED usage including such fan favorites like Len Dykstra, Howard Johnson, Todd Hundley, Mike Piazza and Edgardo Alfonzo

There is a reason the book was called "The Bad Guys Won" and that a clique of that team is referred to as "The Scum Bunch"

ect, ect, ect...

Granted one can make a case that Dukes' transgressions are worse than the ones listed, but she can't just drop a team because of one bad apple when you can look at any franchise's history and find players and employees worthy of scorn and can make non-fans ask you "How can you root for (insert Player X)?"

Course the answer is to that is simple. Root for players (or singular player if you must) who to you represents what you think a player should be as a person. Not drop your loyalty at the drop of the hat because your team brought in a POS. Another way of putting it is, you root for the laundry, even if its dirty.

So quite frankly, no you are not allowed back on the bandwagon! Oh I agree its hard to root for a POS, and it would be better once the POS is no longer on the team you root for, but can you say you really were much of a fan of the aforementioned franchise if you are just going to chance your fandom based on who the team acquires? Because, like I said, you are going to find it awfully hard, and it just may be impossible to find a team that doesn't have a single skeleton in their closet. That is just plain human nature.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Be quiet Rogers

[stevejrogers]

Come to think of it, I'm surprised she didn't reference Lastings Milledge's transgressions as another member of the "element" that she puts Dukes in.

Hey, perhaps THATS the underlying reason for her conversion and she didn't want to put Milledge's name in because that would show how transparent her reason for switching to the Nats was!

[Guest OlerudOwned]

Yeah, remember that time Milledge threatened to kill his girlfriend? That was nuts!

[stevejrogers]

OlerudOwned wrote: Yeah, remember that time Milledge threatened to kill his girlfriend? That was nuts!

Yeah I know murder threats and statutory rapes are quite different and it was one incident as opposed to a full rap sheet, but Milledge did rape an underage girl and one would suspect that the author of the letter would hold that against rooting for Milledge, even with it being the only known actual crime on his record.

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

Steve wrote:

Okay Audrey lets see;

Vince Coleman threw firecrackers into a crowd, injuring a young girl


------ And we dumped his greasy butt.

Bret Saberhagen squirted bleach at a bunch of sports writers and injured one of them

--------And we dumped his greasy butt.

Vince Coleman may or may not have beheading a cat

--------You mean Kevin Mitchell, and we dumped his greasy butt.

There are countless tales of Gooden and Strawberry's history of possible spousal abuse to say nothing of their battles with their demons, which BTW doesn't just hurt the addict but the addict's family and friends as well.

-------Mistakes were made.

A case can be made that Carlos Delgado's stance against God Bless America and the National Anthem is hypocritical and Un-American considering since 2005 he has been working in the United States, and therefore he is not a person worthy of anyone's affection.

-------He's stood for the anthem since coming to the Mets.

Guillermo Mota WAS suspended for steroids and wound up being resigned by the Mets

--------Who then dumped his greasy ass for a catcher who won't be on the roster on Opening Day.

The Mets have had their fair share of players have whispers of PED usage including such fan favorites like Len Dykstra, Howard Johnson, Todd Hundley, Mike Piazza and Edgardo Alfonzo

---------Don't indict people until you have proof. There are "whispers" about every player from that era.

There is a reason the book was called "The Bad Guys Won" and that a clique of that team is referred to as "The Scum Bunch"

--------Author Jeff Pearlman is a Klapisch wannabe.

--------You left out Carl Everett. Fact of the matter is that we purge our people who cause such problems.

Welcome the folks back.

[Benjamin Grimm]

="SteveJRogers"]...but Milledge did rape an underage girl

He had sex, as a teenager, with a teenager.

That hardly makes him a rapist.

[stevejrogers]

Fair point MGIM, but no doubt Met fans have had the same "How could you root for..." questions about the players listed, and pretty much the majority of people listed that got booted were booted more so for baseball reasons (diminishing talent, salery dump, ect) as opposed to their off the field transgressions.

Also I failed to list Roberto Alomar who is vilified by many because of the spitting incident years before he became a Met, never mind his horrid play as a Met.

Earlier this year you essentially knocked Yankee fans for rooting for a POS over a decade after Mel Hall played his last game for the MFY when his transgressions were revealed. (to say nothing of Luis Polonia of the same MFY era, and to say nothing of MFY fans dislike of Hall because the way he treated Bernie Williams when Williams was coming up) So just because you can give answers to examples of Met transgressions, doesn't mean they are fair game for other fans to hate on the franchise, and therefore always see the acquisition of such players in the same way this woman is seeing the Dukes acquisition. Just so happens that she is a Nats fan.

So would you do the same in this situation?

[Guest Kid Carsey]

mgim: >>>Fact of the matter is that we purge our people who cause such problems<<<

I find this statement a little disturbing for some reason.

Not something I'd subscribe to as a rallying cry. Also, I'm not so sure it's
accurate in making it sound like the Mets (we? our? yuck!) are much dif-
ferent than any other team in having troubled players or are exceptional
in ridding themselves of 'em.

[Guest OlerudOwned]

="Benjamin Grimm"] ="SteveJRogers"]...but Milledge did rape an underage girl He had sex, as a teenager, with a teenager. That hardly makes him a rapist.

Thanks for verbalizing that for me. I was trying to figure out how I could convey the sound of me slamming my head against the wall into a post.

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

="Kid Carsey"]mgim: >>>Fact of the matter is that we purge our people who cause such problems<<< I find this statement a little disturbing for some reason. Not something I'd subscribe to as a rallying cry. Also, I'm not so sure it's accurate in making it sound like the Mets (we? our? yuck!) are much dif- ferent than any other team in having troubled players or are exceptional in ridding themselves of 'em.

Valid point. I was over the top.

[stevejrogers]

Which reminds me, he, Milledge, has been traded for someone who essentially has the same feelings about people who are different than he is as John Rocker, only he had the good sense not to ramble on and on, and on to someone doing a profile on him.

No one here would ever want Rocker on the Mets right? Well the only reason he is in the indies is because his arm was too shot and his skills eroded, not because he is an ignorant POS.

[Guest Edgy DC]

SteveJRogers wrote: Which reminds me, he, Milledge, has been traded for someone who essentially has the same feelings about people who are different than he is as John Rocker, only he had the good sense not to ramble on and on, and on to someone doing a profile on him.

No he wasn't, Steve. Stop it. You have about a half dozen facts wrong or grossly distorted to make a lost point.

Threatening to murder his wife, Steve. A woman has every right to place that beyond the pale of her tolerance. You equate that with Alfonzo maybe taking steroids, based on your speculation.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I re-read. More than half a dozen.

[MFS62]

I can't believe Vince intentionally threw the firecracker into the crowd.
I saw him play.
He just probably missed the cutoff man.

Later

[Elster88]

Shut up rogers.

[metsmarathon]

ryan church expressing a belief that non christians might have a hard time getting into (christian) heaven and that it might be a good thing to do to enlighten them of that, is hardly the same as a) hating non christians and threatening to murder your wife.

[Valadius]

Elijah Dukes is a psychopathic drug addict. Milledge had sex. They're nowhere NEAR the same.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Valadius wrote: Milledge had sex. They're nowhere NEAR the same.

That's 'cause you're not doing it right.

[G-Fafif]

You care for Elijah Dukes little, dear Audrey
Yet your club-switching choice is the one I found tawdry

You want your daughter to feel some true local fealty
But your own allegiance should have transcended mere realty

"Lifetime" and "loyalty" you bandy about
But the Mets for the Nats is what you traded out

In McLean as in Flushing, you don't turn your back
On the team that wears blue... and orange... and black

[stevejrogers]

Edgy DC wrote: Threatening to murder his wife, Steve. A woman has every right to place that beyond the pale of her tolerance. You equate that with Alfonzo maybe taking steroids, based on your speculation.

No, the point I was making is that all franchises, heck all forms of entertainment, have people who you root for that have skeletons of various degrees. I didn't even say any of the stuff I mentioned was on the same level, what I was saying is that the Mets have plenty of examples where non-fans can point to you as a Met fan and say "How can you root for..."

My response to her, lost in what I got wrong with the specific cases, is that you root for the uniform if you truely are a passionate fan.

Billy Martin once said he'd play Hitler and Mussolini if they could help his team win. Fans feel the same way. And you know how to reply to "How can you root for..." questions? Simple, you say that you don't root for that particular player. You root for the laundry. You root harder for the players who fit your particular image of what a player should be as a person.

Perhaps you root hard for the day the POS is finally off the roster, or perhaps you root for that POS in terms of maybe, just maybe the setting that your team has may be the right setting to turn his life around for the better (maybe Bowden knows something here, maybe a Manny Acta type would be just the influence Dukes needs, who knows).

To me its a superficial reason for dumping a team for another, even if you rooted for that team in the past. Or maybe her like for the Nats wasn't that strong to begin with, I don't know, I don't know her so obviously I can't say. But to me just because the Nats brought in a poor excuse for a human being, is not a strong enough reason to dump the Nats completely.

[metsmarathon]

SteveJRogers wrote: ="Edgy DC"] Threatening to murder his wife, Steve. A woman has every right to place that beyond the pale of her tolerance. You equate that with Alfonzo maybe taking steroids, based on your speculation. No, the point I was making is that all franchises, heck all forms of entertainment, have people who you root for that have skeletons of various degrees. I didn't even say any of the stuff I mentioned was on the same level, what I was saying is that the Mets have plenty of examples where non-fans can point to you as a Met fan and say "How can you root for..."

ah, but its in the degree where your point is lost.

if hitler really was a met, you'd root for him?

[Guest Edgy DC]

SteveJRogers wrote: No, the point I was making is that all franchises, heck all forms of entertainment, have people who you root for that have skeletons of various degrees.

I don't care, Steve. You've bent every fact available to suit your agenda. It's the irresponsible hack work of every sports journalist we criticize here (only far worse), and it's intolerable from a member. If you want to be a journalist, you should know better than to insult people's intelligence and think they're just going to swallow it.

[Guest Kid Carsey]

SJR: >>>Billy Martin once said he'd play Hitler and Mussolini if they could help his team win<<<

Likely between hiccups.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Steve, if you want to root for the Yankees, Hitler, and Mussolini, go ahead. We'd both apparently be happier.

[stevejrogers]

Vince Coleman threw firecrackers into a crowd, injuring a young girl

From http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1341703

]and in the last straw for the Mets, inexplicably threw an M-80 at a group of fans at Dodger Stadium in 1993, injuring two children and one woman. He was sentenced to 200 hours of community service.

Bret Saberhagen squirted bleach at a bunch of sports writers and injured one of them

Ironically Sabes coming clean (no pun intended) is mentioned in this Times article the same day that Coleman was arraigned for the Dodger Stadium incident. I could have sworn one was injured, but I'll own up to that as shoddy research.



Vince Coleman may or may not have beheading a cat
I'll give you the shoddy edit job, but I did throw in the "may or may not" caveat since Mitchell has denined the incident took place, and Gooden actually denies telling it to Klapish when they were writing the book.


There are countless tales of Gooden and Strawberry's history of possible spousal abuse to say nothing of their battles with their demons, which BTW doesn't just hurt the addict but the addict's family and friends as well.

Doc: http://www.menstuff.org/issues/byissue/domesticviolencenb.html

]Sports and Courts -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dwight Gooden was arrested in Tampa, FL for allegedly punching his ex-wife in the face, police said. The former All-Star pitcher was charged with domestic violence battery and was being held in jail without bond. Tampa police spokeswoman Laura McElroy said the dispute occurred at the home of Monique Moore, Gooden's ex-wife. "She threw a handset from a telephone at him and he punched her in the face," McElroy said. "She called 911. We responded. There was a bruise forming on her face and he was arrested." (Editor: Sounds like they both should be locked up for violent acts towards each other. However, it appears that if you physically attack first, or if you're a woman, you get to go free to provoke again.)

Straw: http://www.mitchellmoss.com/oped/96-10-21-nyobserver.html

]Mr. Strawberry, who hit three home runs in the recent series against the Baltimore Orioles, has been lost for most of the 90's. He was treated for substance abuse, charged with spousal abuse and convicted of tax evasion for failing to disclose income from autographing baseballs and appearing at baseball card shows.

And books have been written chronicling both of their battles with substance abuses.

A case can be made that Carlos Delgado's stance against God Bless America and the National Anthem is hypocritical and Un-American considering since 2005 he has been working in the United States, and therefore he is not a person worthy of anyone's affection.

I only said a case can be made by those who have a certain polticial agenda with his getting an American paycheck being the basis for it, nothing factual about this one.

Guillermo Mota WAS suspended for steroids and wound up being resigned by the Mets

This is a fact, Mota was suspended first, then the Mets signed him.

The Mets have had their fair share of players have whispers of PED usage including such fan favorites like Len Dykstra, Howard Johnson, Todd Hundley, Mike Piazza and Edgardo Alfonzo

More conjecture based on the same conjecture that Met fans use against Jeff Bagwell, Luis Gonzalez, ect, ect, ect. I mention that because that is the way fans tend to rationalize things, "oh our guys don't do those things."

There is a reason the book was called "The Bad Guys Won" and that a clique of that team is referred to as "The Scum Bunch"

Do you want me to go through the fight in the Houston night club? The destruction of the charter after the NLCS? And all the rest of the incidents in that book that are well documented?

Milledge: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/story/422389p-356546c.html

]When the Mets drafted Milledge in 2003, they knew he had some problem at school, something about getting in trouble for having sex with his 15-year-old girlfriend. Milledge was expelled from Northside Christian School in St.Petersburg, Fla., and agreed to enroll in a juvenile arbitration program to avoid prosecution. The baggage was enough to scare off several teams, and Milledge, projected as one of the top three picks in the draft, fell to No. 12. Soon after Milledge was drafted, the Daily News reported that he had been accused of having sex not only with his girlfriend, but with 12- and 13-year-old girls as well. For that reportedly consensual sex, he and the girls were expelled from Northside. Milledge and his parents, who met with a Daily News reporter three years ago to discuss the allegations, denied he had sex with the younger girls. But a source with the Pinellas County State's Attorney's office, speaking on the condition of anonymity, told The News at the time that if Milledge had not agreed to the arbitration program - with the approval of the girls' parents - he would have been prosecuted as a juvenile for molestation. "Our crimes against children detectives unit was very serious about pursuing this case, and they referred charges to the state's attorney's office," Pinellas County Sheriff's spokeswoman Marianne Pasha told The News at the time. 'They felt strongly there was some victimization involved.' "

Consensual or not, and the fact that it appears to be the only legal trouble Milledge has on his record, it is still a statutory rape charge on his record.

Church: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/20/AR2005092002093.html

Seems like his comments were inflamatory enough to warrant an apology (which was needed even if it wasn't inflamatory enough of course) and a strong reaction from the DC Jewish leaders

]Tavares acted following complaints from Rabbi Shmuel Herzfeld, leader of an Orthodox Jewish congregation in Washington, who said it appeared that "the locker room of the Nationals is being used to preach hatred" and urged the club to distance itself from Church's remarks.

Yes Rocker spouted off venomous words about people of sexual orientation and ethnicity, but at the same time you could say they are both rather simplistic people who made the mistake of showing their ignorance and black & white view of others. Rocker's mistake also was in that he just didn't know when to shut up.

So where exactly are all the other mistakes and distortions that I made?

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

SJR - "...Rocker's mistake also was in that he just didn't know when to shut up."

Rocker's not the only one with that problem.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Damn, Steve, it's hack work to the core and you know it. Stop defending the indefensible. And there's no "show me where else." One piece of bullshit discredits the whole argument.

Vince Coleman threw firecrackers into a crowd

Wrong, he threw one.

injuring a young girl

Well that's padding to sensationalize. Girls are young by definition. Pad it with facts and you'll find he injured three children. That's your angle.

Most self-serving is that you ignore that the sequence of events makes this not a parallel at all to the Elijah Dukes/Nationals situation. Coleman did what he did and was suspended for the remainder of the season and never played again for the Mets. Dukes did what he did and the Nats took advantage of his depressed stock and went out and acquired him.

You're also deliberately not remembering that people were disgusted and abandoned the team in droves.

You're also missing a period.

Bret Saberhagen squirted bleach at a bunch of sports writers and injured one of them

An injury I don't recall. The Mets investigated, dragged him to contrition, suspended and fined him, even holding the suspension over until the next season when they could have activated him while injured and called it a suspension. That is an entirely appropriate response for a situation that doesn't belong in the same breath.

You're again deliberately not remembering that people were disgusted and abandoned the team in droves, and the team was rightly embarrassed. They traded the guy the next season.

Again the sequence is reversed from that of the Nationals and Dukes.

You're again missing a period.

Vince Coleman may or may not have beheading a cat

Coleman, Mitchell, whatever. I heard it was Tom Seaver.

There are countless tales of Gooden and Strawberry's history of possible spousal abuse to say nothing of their battles with their demons, which BTW doesn't just hurt the addict but the addict's family and friends as well.

And how did the team act inappropriately with these two?

The sequence is again relevant in the distinguishing these cases. Again it's ignored.

Good job on the period this time, though.

A case can be made that Carlos Delgado's stance against God Bless America and the National Anthem is hypocritical and Un-American...

A stupid case, maybe.

...considering since 2005 he has been working in the United States,

He's been working in the United States most of his career, and is a US Citizen.

...and therefore he is not a person worthy of anyone's affection.

That's insupportable and ignorant.

Guillermo Mota WAS suspended for steroids and wound up being resigned by the Mets

At least you get sequence correct. This is the Mets acting to acquire or retain a player after a transgression. It's a transgression completely un-like those of Dukes and one for which the player expressed contrition, but I didn't like this at all and reserve the right to rip the Mets for it.

You still forgot the period.

The Mets have had their fair share of players have whispers of PED usage including such fan favorites like Len Dykstra, Howard Johnson, Todd Hundley, Mike Piazza and Edgardo Alfonzo

Whispers? You give us whispers? I can create whispers. Look, I'm whispering.

There is a reason the book was called "The Bad Guys Won" and that a clique of that team is referred to as "The Scum Bunch"

Both these names were self-applied by the groups themselves in un-creative fits of self-aggrandizement. That's the "reason."

Oh, yeah, missing period.

ect, ect, ect...

The abbreviation is "etc.," with the t before the c. It also needs a period at the end.

Granted one can make a case that Dukes' transgressions are worse than the ones listed...

Yeah, anyone can. Because it's true and glaringly obvious.

...but she can't just drop a team because of one bad apple...

Yes, she can.

...when you can look at any franchise's history and find players and employees worthy of scorn and can make non-fans ask you "How can you root for (insert Player X)?"

Three basic points Steve, that flow throughout this, as obvious as the deep blue sea, but you ignore.

(1) Some things are far worse than other things to tolerate in your friends, your family, your business associates, and your baseball team.

(2) The Nats acquired him after his actions but before any clear public penance.

(3) People have been pulling out on teams in protest of their indulgence of the behavior of their players for a long time. People have been pulling out on business in protest of their indulgence of the behavior of their employees for a long time. It's a way of voting your morals in a capitalist society and it's healthy.

Course the answer is to that is simple.

Is it as simple as this strange sentence?

Root for players (or singular player if you must) who to you represents what you think a player should be as a person.

She wants to do that.

You're missng a few commas here and it's a struggle to read.

Not drop your loyalty at the drop of the hat because your team brought in a POS.

It's not the drop of a hat. It's a considered choice and there's nothing arbitrary about it.

Another way of putting it is, you root for the laundry, even if its dirty.

You do, maybe. I don't have to. I think it's really shallow.

So quite frankly, no you are not allowed back on the bandwagon!

Speak for yourself.

Oh I agree its hard to root for a POS...

That's nice.

...and it would be better once the POS is no longer on the team you root for...

So, my sweet Audrey accelerated the process. That's pro-active, and self-empowering. You want to be a slave to the caprice of some random billionnaire and his logo, that's your choice. Dear Audrey wants to be more discriminating.

but can you say you really ere much of a fan of the aforementioned franchise if you are just going to chance your fandom based on who the team acquires?

I don't know how you are using "chance" here. But yes she is. She's better, because she's making the team better with her tough tough love, for the glory of DC and for all humankind and for abused women everywhere.

Because, like I said, you are going to find it awfully hard, and it just may be impossible to find a team that doesn't have a single skeleton in their closet. That is just plain human nature.

It's especially hard if you make up and distort a whole lot of irrelevant crap.

Hey, tell me again about David Cone fornicating in the bullpen.

Edited December 9, 2007 by Guest

[A Boy Named Seo]

="SteveJRogers"] Vince Coleman may or may not have beheading a cat I'll give you the shoddy edit job, but I did throw in the "may or may not" caveat since Mitchell has denined the incident took place, and Gooden actually denies telling it to Klapish when they were writing the book.

SteveJRogers may or may not eat babies.

SteveJRogers may or may not hate Mexicans.

SteveJRogers may or may not be Derek Jeter's secret boyfriend.

This is fun! And easy!