Do we want Alex Rodriguez?

[Benjamin Grimm]

Oh. I don't see Rodriguez as displacing either one of those guys. (If that turns out to be the plan, then I certainly agree with you.)

He's more likely to displace a Valentin or a Delgado. (Actually, he's more likely to displace a Dodger or a Cub, but that's another story.) And if Delgado, for example, becomes a trade chip, then that's not really a problem at all, unless, of course, you can't find a taker.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Well, signing Rodriguez as a first- or secondbaseman, or signing him and moving Wright to first or second, diminishes our return on the dollar relative to what other teams would be paying him.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Somewhat irrational phears in Philliedom.

[metirish]

Not a bad take on things from the phillie blogger.

Wally turns a yankee mess into a Mets mess in Wally's world.

Wally Matthews

[Guest Edgy DC]

Scanned it. Found nothing of substance.

[metirish]

I guess my problem here with Wally is that he somehow thinks the Mets should pursue Rodriguez to fix a wrong when the Mets didn't sign him seven years ago. That and now with a club house that already has several diva type players the 24 + 1 rule shouldn't be a problem. His constant digs at the Mets are just silly, this is a different organization that it was seven years ago.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I can't shake this feeling I have that the Mets are lying in the weeds in this story. Boras has to have somebody on the hook. Why not Omar?

[Benjamin Grimm]

Yeah, it may very well be Omar. The Daily News this morning, in handicapping the Rodriguez Race, pretty much dismissed the Mets as not interested. That may be the case, but I'm not convinced.

[metirish]

Oh I think the Mets could be players, how many teams can go for him really, can the Cubs current ownership continue to spend huge money when they are selling the team, are the Dodgers still pissed with Boras and would they want to deal with him.

[Centerfield]

If they signed A-Rod, I would think the logical move would be to let him play shortstop and move Reyes to second. Jose has done it before and done it well.

[DocTee]

If they signed A-Rod, I htink the logical move would be to deal Ryes to Minnesota for Santana!

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

="Yancy Street Gang"]Yeah, it may very well be Omar. The Daily News this morning, in handicapping the Rodriguez Race, pretty much dismissed the Mets as not interested. That may be the case, but I'm not convinced.

They basically dismissed everyone. At least, they presented a point against just as compelling as "the Wilpons don't want that kinda nonsense" or whatever they said about the Mets.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Thanks for calling Mike and Mad Dog, DocTee.

="Centerfield"]If they signed A-Rod, I would think the logical move would be to let him play shortstop and move Reyes to second. Jose has done it before and done it well.

The most logical, sure. But, by the same token, that was also the most logical thing for the Yankees to do with Jeter. Similar sensitivities would confront the Mets, and they'd have a Rodriguez four years removed from his shortstop years, while the Yankees had one immediately coming off two Gold Glove years, and one MVP one.

[duan]

i'd see how willing Roderiguez was about moving to 2nd. He's proved he can move around the infield already. I'd have in my head that he might well move to first in 4-5 years.

I'd be going up to 7 years at around the 30ish too.

[Valadius]

Jeff Passan at Yahoo Sports listed his top 10 destinations for A-Rod. The Mets come in at #6.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AqYnAtyzq3EhP7N40Ucs9h8RvLYF?slug=jp-arod103007&prov=yhoo&type=lgn

]6. New York Mets Why? To stick it to the Yankees. And because with SportsNet New York turning into a television powerhouse, the Mets now rank third in total revenues behind the Yankees and Boston Red Sox, meaning they can afford him. Why not? Where does he play? David Wright moving to second base is laughable, and he and Jose Reyes' contracts are too good to move. And even though they could afford him, the Mets don't want their payroll rocketing into the Yankees-Red Sox stratosphere.

[Benjamin Grimm]

"To stick it to the Yankees" isn't a very valid reason for spending almost $300 million.

[metsmarathon]

yeah, that's just dumb.

also dumb is the notion that, though they could afford to do so, the mets might not want to have a very high payroll.

now, just having a high payroll in and of itself is no guarantee of success. but if you do it right, and make the wise decisions in building the team with that high payroll, it can certainly be an enabler or success.

you should have a payroll commensurate with your ability to afford it, but also commensurate with the team's ability to perform. that is to say that if you can afford to pay the right players, you do. and just because you can afford to pay the wrong players does not mean that you do.

arod is more of a right player than a wrong player, given that i think he could be a good first baseman, will produce like the dickens, and has a healthy-looking body that does not seem overly prone to breaking down (though that can always change at the drop of a hat).

with him at first, we can afford to find a defensive second baseman, and grow a few corner outfielders. it also, dare i say, alleviates some of the pressure on the pitching staff. which is not to say that we don't need pitching desperately this offseason, only that a good offense is a pitchers good friend.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Some doubts in there.

1) There's the "it's not the money but the years" conundrum.

2) There's the lack of return on the dollar that you get when you move guys to easier positions.

3) We spend about $6 million more this season alone gobbling up enough of Delgado's contract to move him.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Point 1 is the one that resonates most with me.

I understand Point 2, but I think the juice you get from 50 homers more than offsets the return on the dollar.

And Points 2 and 3 would be negated under the scenario where Wright moves to second base and Delgado sticks around. (That's not my preference, though. I'd rather see Wright or Rodriguez at first base, and have an established second baseman like Castillo or someone else play second.)

[G-Fafif]

John Harper, as dim as they come:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2007/10/31/2007-10-31_mets_must_opt_for_arod.html

]It seems obvious enough that the Mets need to do something splashy this winter to wash away the psychological stain from their historic collapse and give everyone from their fan base to their players a reason to look forward, not back. Suffice it to say that if Omar Minaya could find a way to pry Johan Santana away from the Twins, all would be forgiven. The Mets need an ace the way they need that new stadium of theirs to open and put dreary old Shea out of its misery. If it means trading Jose Reyes and a couple of their young pitchers, the Mets should jump at the chance. Josh Beckett's spectacular October was a reminder of just how much a true ace can do for a ballclub, and it's hard to imagine how Pedro Martinez will ever fit that description again. But there is no indication yet, much less a guarantee, that the Twins will trade Santana as he approaches free agency a year from now. And there's nothing in the way of front-line pitching available on the free-agent market. All of which is a way of saying: Why not A-Rod? It's not every day the opportunity comes along to sign the most talented player in the game and stick it to your intra-city rival all at once. The Mets can do that right now by bringing Alex Rodriguez to Queens, and the more you think about it, the more sense it makes. As an organization the Mets are forever feeling slighted because the Yankees make more headlines and get more coverage, win or lose. But the Yankees have lost considerable star power in Joe Torre and A-Rod, offering the Mets a chance to make themselves the glamour team in town for the first time in two decades, simply by signing A-Rod. So what if he's a 24-and-1 guy, to borrow Steve Phillips' famous description of Rodriguez seven years ago? So what if he looks more narcissistic than ever, thanks to the timing of his opt-out decision? It's not as if you can argue that A-Rod's arrival would upset some special chemistry the Mets have going, not after last year when they carried themselves with an air of entitlement that finally caught up with them. If anything, A-Rod's unmatched work ethic might do for Reyes what it did for Melky Cabrera last year, when Cabrera raised his game after he started shadowing A-Rod and his workout regimen on a daily basis. On his way out, Rodriguez made it easy for Yankee fans to hate him, sounding like a phony and failing them every October. Mets fans couldn't care less. The addition of Rodriguez would all but assure a playoff spot, and eventually he is bound to produce in October, the way Barry Bonds finally did after his early failures. Think that wouldn't be sweet to the Mets faithful? Maybe it wouldn't be fair to David Wright, who has become the face of the Mets, an All-Star for years to come and one of the real good guys in sports. On the other hand, Wright himself volunteered to move to second base when the A-Rod question was posed to him last spring. He is young and agile enough to play there for at least a few years, and then perhaps move to first if necessary. Most important, Wright would see the huge benefit of adding Rodriguez to a lineup that underachieved badly last year. Let's face it, Carlos Beltran doesn't seem to have the mental toughness to be a superstar in New York, and Carlos Delgado clearly showed signs of age last year, beaten all too often with inside fastballs. But put Rodriguez in the No.3 spot, while sliding Beltran to No.2 where he belongs, and suddenly the Mets have a lineup with firepower that could match any in the American League, never mind the National. The Mets would still need to beef up the bullpen, but assuming that Mike Pelfrey makes an expected leap forward, a Pedro-led starting rotation would look a whole lot better if it could count on five or six runs a night. This is a franchise that should be thinking bigger than it ever has, with its TV network in place and the new stadium opening in 2009, both of which mean gobs of money if the Wilpons put a star-driven, playoff team on the field. Those are reasons enough to forget what happened seven years ago, when Fred Wilpon didn't want to spend the money on A-Rod. Times have changed, especially now with the Yankees all but inviting the Mets to become the hot team in town. Would Rodriguez do it? Sure he would, for the highest offer. He loves the attention he receives in New York, good and bad. And he's always had a soft spot for the Mets, the team he loved as a kid. All it would take is $300million or so, and New Yorkers would barely remember the Mets choking away the playoffs. How's the line in the TV commercial go? Priceless.

Where to begin?

"It seems obvious enough that the Mets need to do something splashy this winter to wash away the psychological stain from their historic collapse and give everyone from their fan base to their players a reason to look forward, not back."

--Well, no. It seems obvious they need to improve their bullpen, secure a catcher, tutor their young pitchers, give pep talks and physicals to those who need one or each. But splashy does not necessarily equal wise. Was 2002 really that long ago?

"Suffice it to say that if Omar Minaya could find a way to pry Johan Santana away from the Twins, all would be forgiven. The Mets need an ace the way they need that new stadium of theirs to open and put dreary old Shea out of its misery."

--Johan Santana's a great pitcher, no question. But shot at Shea is irrelevant and a sign that Harper's already in Mark Herrman "I don't have enough to fill out a column" territory.

"If it means trading Jose Reyes and a couple of their young pitchers, the Mets should jump at the chance. Josh Beckett's spectacular October was a reminder of just how much a true ace can do for a ballclub, and it's hard to imagine how Pedro Martinez will ever fit that description again."

--OK, we've passed Herrmann and we're speeding by Wally Matthews. Just like that, Harper has the Mets trading their franchise shortstop off a bad second half. They should "jump" to do so, along with those young pitchers who apparently aren't that good, otherwise we wouldn't have to engineer a trade for Santana. Beckett was wonderful in October. Pedro is older than he used to be. Unless Beckett's a free agent or the Mets are offering Pedro an extension, Harper continues to clog this column with nonfactors.

"But there is no indication yet, much less a guarantee, that the Twins will trade Santana as he approaches free agency a year from now. And there's nothing in the way of front-line pitching available on the free-agent market."

--So...you've just wasted your breath for a paragraph shooting down a strawman rumor.

All of which is a way of saying: Why not A-Rod?

--I could swear we were just told the Mets desperately need an ace. So why the most expensive player of all-time instead? Someone who plays positions the Mets have covered?

"It's not every day the opportunity comes along to sign the most talented player in the game and stick it to your intra-city rival all at once. The Mets can do that right now by bringing Alex Rodriguez to Queens, and the more you think about it, the more sense it makes."

--Are we to believe the Mets are (or should be) run by petulant 12-year-olds? Wouldn't sticking it to the Phillies and Braves be priority?

"As an organization the Mets are forever feeling slighted because the Yankees make more headlines and get more coverage, win or lose. But the Yankees have lost considerable star power in Joe Torre and A-Rod, offering the Mets a chance to make themselves the glamour team in town for the first time in two decades, simply by signing A-Rod."

--Whatever wounds the Mets lick as a result of not firing their manager or having their best player walk on them while their archrival won the World Series, why should this be indulged? Aren't the Mets continually criticized for worrying too much about what the Yankees do? Why should this be their motivation now?

"So what if he's a 24-and-1 guy, to borrow Steve Phillips' famous description of Rodriguez seven years ago? So what if he looks more narcissistic than ever, thanks to the timing of his opt-out decision?"

--So what, indeed. Except those aren't attractive qualities, are they?

"It's not as if you can argue that A-Rod's arrival would upset some special chemistry the Mets have going, not after last year when they carried themselves with an air of entitlement that finally caught up with them."

--So...he would help in that regard?

"If anything, A-Rod's unmatched work ethic might do for Reyes what it did for Melky Cabrera last year, when Cabrera raised his game after he started shadowing A-Rod and his workout regimen on a daily basis."

--So...he's actually a pretty good guy to have around? Make up your mind maybe?

"On his way out, Rodriguez made it easy for Yankee fans to hate him, sounding like a phony and failing them every October."

--So...he's not a good guy. And he didn't aid his team when push came to shove (though we know there are lots of factors for why a team doesn't win in the playoffs).

"Mets fans couldn't care less. The addition of Rodriguez would all but assure a playoff spot, and eventually he is bound to produce in October, the way Barry Bonds finally did after his early failures. Think that wouldn't be sweet to the Mets faithful?"

--How does Harper know we are that non-discerning? Does Harper actually know any Mets fans? And where's the guarantee? Does A-Rod get us in every year? It's one thing to speculate, it's another thing to print the unknowable as virtual fact.

"Maybe it wouldn't be fair to David Wright, who has become the face of the Mets, an All-Star for years to come and one of the real good guys in sports."

--Sounds like John is ready to shoot this one down.

"On the other hand, Wright himself volunteered to move to second base when the A-Rod question was posed to him last spring. He is young and agile enough to play there for at least a few years, and then perhaps move to first if necessary."

--How convenient. John knew the answer all along. This is also the first part of his column that is mildly useful.

"Most important, Wright would see the huge benefit of adding Rodriguez to a lineup that underachieved badly last year."

--As would the other members of the Met lineup, one assumes.

"Let's face it, Carlos Beltran doesn't seem to have the mental toughness to be a superstar in New York, and Carlos Delgado clearly showed signs of age last year, beaten all too often with inside fastballs."

--And with this graf, Harper's momentum becomes undone. Beltran has put up two top-notch offensive seasons. And even if you don't put him in A-Rod's class offensively, please define mental toughness and how it's holding Beltran back. Is Beltran mentally soft even as he's driving in more than a hundred runs and running into fences and being the best player on the team in September? As for Delgado, look what a long-term contract can turn into toward the end. A-Rod will require a long commitment. May look worth it now, but a commitment implies you are stuck for quite a while. Delgado you're stuck with for a lot of money this year, the year after he had his worst year to date.

"But put Rodriguez in the No.3 spot, while sliding Beltran to No.2 where he belongs, and suddenly the Mets have a lineup with firepower that could match any in the American League, never mind the National."

--Why does Beltran belong in the No. 2 spot? Beltran was incredibly effective in the No. 4 spot, actually. And haven't we heard about the Mets' American League lineup already?

"The Mets would still need to beef up the bullpen, but assuming that Mike Pelfrey makes an expected leap forward, a Pedro-led starting rotation would look a whole lot better if it could count on five or six runs a night."

--Who's expecting Pelfrey's leap forward? What did he do to inspire this expectation? I'm not writing him off, but beyond one terrific start against the Braves, Pelfrey did nothing to make a leap forward. And weren't we told earlier that Pedro's not really an ace anymore? By the way, the Mets were scoring plenty late in the year and it didn't excuse the rotation's shortcomings.

"This is a franchise that should be thinking bigger than it ever has, with its TV network in place and the new stadium opening in 2009, both of which mean gobs of money if the Wilpons put a star-driven, playoff team on the field."

--Have sportswriters ever taken a business class? No benefits need be held for the Wilpons, one assumes, but a theoretical $300 million contract is an astounding commitment. Citi Field will be sold out for several years anyway, SNY will generate commercial revenue anyway, how much more benefit will there be from A-Rod? It's probably good fodder for a column, not an "oh and another thing I just thought of to make my 800-word quota" paragraph.

"Those are reasons enough to forget what happened seven years ago, when Fred Wilpon didn't want to spend the money on A-Rod. Times have changed, especially now with the Yankees all but inviting the Mets to become the hot team in town."

--How hot do the Mets need to be? Winning two more games in 2007 would have helped a great deal, as would have winning five more in 2006. But the Mets aren't in 2004 disarray any longer. Yes, the Yankees were incredibly newsworthy this October. It had nothing to do with the Mets, just as whatever the Mets did or didn't do in September had no effect on that Yankee news. Joe Torre left as manager. It was a guaranteed soap opera thanks to the way papers like Harper's operate. This is one big begging of the question. And unless the Yankees start losing 90 games a year, they're not going away as a factor in the market.

"Would Rodriguez do it? Sure he would, for the highest offer. He loves the attention he receives in New York, good and bad. And he's always had a soft spot for the Mets, the team he loved as a kid."

--I almost think Harper is trying to be amusing here. If A-Rod just wants money, he wouldn't care that it's New York or that it's the team he loved as a kid. If he loved New York, why leave the allegedly hot team and all that? It's not like he didn't get lots of attention and drive in lots of runs.

"All it would take is $300 million or so, and New Yorkers would barely remember the Mets choking away the playoffs."

--Since A-Rod doesn't guarantee a world championship, the Mets not winning one with A-Rod would probably just create a convenient three-time loser storyline for hacks like Harper: they couldn't win in '06 or '07 or '08...but just wait! They'll go out and sign the big free agent of next winter and it will change everything! Dope.

"How's the line in the TV commercial go? Priceless."

--Editor to Harper: John, we need one more line. Maybe nine words.

Edited October 31, 2007 by Guest

[Guest Edgy DC]

We need to build a blog to dissect these creeps every day.

Bottom line: A-Rod to the Mets and my columns will write themselves.

[Centerfield]

Scott Boras in Newsday:

"You can't count Alex against payroll because he pays for himself. This is not a baseball decision, it's a business decision. The Mets are in a rare situation where they can add a player of Alex's performance and he doesn't cost them a thing. To me, this is an easy, easy call."

Well jeez, if Alex is going to pick up his own salary, give him as much as he wants.

[G-Fafif]

Remember how Alex Rodriguez made the Texas Rangers the most popular and profitable team in baseball?

[Guest sharpie]

I suppose that Boras is referring to his oft-quoted attendance rise at MFY Stadium during the A-Rod Era. The Mets have only one more year at Shea, however, before they move into a substantially smaller stadium (with a capacity that they exceeded, I think I read, 45 times last year). So -- the Mets shouldn't have too much trouble filling CitiField without A-Rod and with him they couldn't achieve the kinds of gains that Yankee Stadium absorbed. So he doesn't pay for himself, unless they sell a lot of A-Rod jerseys (does he stay at 13 or go back to his old 3?)

[Benjamin Grimm]

When I read that column in the paper this morning I knew immediately it was the kind of thing that we'd jump all over.

The only thing that might make us forget the 2007 collapse is a 2008 Worlds Championship. Nothing that happens between now and next October is going to erase that memory. Nothing.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

He would definitely wear No. 3 as a Met.

[Guest Edgy DC]

They get higher ratings for their network, sell more advertising, get a bigger audience overseas, become the first team to crack into the untapped interplanetary market, and expand their publishing sideline with books and magazines inspired by A-Rod.

Watching Alex on SNY cures cancer. There's money there also.

[G-Fafif]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: He would definitely wear No. 3 as a Met.

His youthful admiration for Dale Murphy would morph into youthful admiration for Rafael Santana.

[Guest holychicken]

Yancy Street Gang wrote: When I read that column in the paper this morning I knew immediately it was the kind of thing that we'd jump all over. The only thing that might make us forget the 2007 collapse is a 2008 Worlds Championship. Nothing that happens between now and next October is going to erase that memory. Nothing.

Exactly. There is no way I watch baseball next year like a normal person. Not that my watching habits were very normal last year, but they will be significantly further removed from normal that you will be able to consider last year's habits as normal.

[Guest Edgy DC]

It's all speculation, but it's fun to imagine what a machine the Red Sox lineup would be with him in it.