Hall of Fame Voting: This Year, Next Year, and Beyond

[Valadius]

Among managers, I'd vote for Herzog and Williams. I'd also vote Doug Harvey in among umpires (SABR rated him the 2nd-greatest umpire in history, behind Bill Klem). Among executives, Marvin Miller is a shoo-in. I'd also vote for Barney Dreyfuss, Bob Howsam, and Walter O'Malley.

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

The Veterans Committee has yet to elect anyone since the new system was developed, so I'm not optimistic.

But I believe Doug Harvey and Marvin Miller absolutely deserve it. You'd think O'Malley would get support.

[Frayed Knot]

They've alos re-re-vamped the system, creating a select committee to look at mgrs & execs and the like while leaving the HoF players to look at only players.

[MFS62]

metsguyinmichigan wrote: You'd think O'Malley would get support.

Not from fans who remember (or who rooted for) the Brooklyn Dodgers.
I'd rather give birth to a flaming porcupine than vote for him for the HOF.

Later

[nymr83]

]The Veterans Committee has yet to elect anyone since the new system was developed, so I'm not optimistic

that makes me very optimistic actually. there are players who don't really belong in the hall, and i hold the veterans committee responsible for more than their fair share of them.

[Guest Edgy DC]

A completely different body with the same name.

[nymr83]

i'm glad if its a different body because the old one sucked

[Valadius]

]Tim Raines, David Justice head new Hall of Fame candidates November 26, 2007 NEW YORK (AP) -- Tim Raines and David Justice head 11 first-time candidates on the baseball writers' 2008 Hall of Fame ballot, joining Mark McGwire, Rich Gossage, Jim Rice and 11 other holdovers. McGwire, his candidacy hurt by suspicions of steroids use, was selected on just 23.5 percent of ballots when he was eligible for the first time in 2007. When Cal Ripken Jr. and Tony Gwynn were elected in January, Gossage fell 21 votes shy of the necessary 75 percent and Rice was 63 votes short. Rice is on the ballot for the 14th time and Gossage for the ninth. Players can be on the Baseball Writers' Association of America ballot for up to 15 years. Gossage's percentage increased from 64.6 in 2006 to 71.2 in 2007, while Rice's declined from 64.6 to 63.5. The highest percentage for a player who wasn't elected in a later year was 63.4 by Gil Hodges in 1983, his final time on the ballot. Raines was a seven-time All-Star who played 23 seasons and batted .294 with 2,605 hits and 808 steals, fifth on the career list. He was the 1986 NL batting champion. Justice was the 1990 NL Rookie of the Year and a three-time All-Star. He had a .279 average, 305 homers and 1,017 RBIs in 14 seasons. Brady Anderson, Rod Beck, Shawon Dunston, Chuck Finley, Travis Fryman, Chuck Knoblauch, Robb Nen, Jose Rijo and Todd Stottlemyre also are first-time candidates. The five-year waiting rule was waived for Beck, who died June 23. Other holdovers (with their 2007 vote percentages) include Andre Dawson (56.7), Bert Blyleven (47.7), Lee Smith (39.8), Jack Morris 202 (37.1), Tommy John (22.9), Dave Concepcion (13.6), Alan Trammell (13.4), Dave Parker (11.4), Don Mattingly (9.9), Dale Murphy (9.2) and Harold Baines (5.3). Rijo retired after the 1995 season and appeared on the 2001 Hall ballot, when he received one vote. He then returned to the major leagues and pitched for Cincinnati in 2001 and 2002, making him eligible to go back on the ballot. Reporters who have been in the BBWAA for 10 or more consecutive years are eligible to vote, and the totals will be announced Jan. 8. Rickey Henderson tops the players who will be eligible for the first time on the 2009 ballot. Results of balloting for managers, umpires and executives by the newly reconstituted Veterans Committee will be announced Dec. 3 at the winter meetings.

[Gwreck]

McGwire and Gossage.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I can't recall a field as unlikely to generate yes votes as this year's.

[seawolf17]

My seven "yes" votes:

Bert Blyleven
Andre Dawson
Rich "Goose" Gossage
Jack Morris
Dale Murphy
Tim Raines
Jim Rice

[A Boy Named Seo]

Shawn-O-Meter:

2%

and falling...

[Benjamin Grimm]

I think I'd vote for Raines. Maybe.

I don't remember what my position was on Lee Smith. I'd have to reexamine that, but I think he might also get my vote.

And that would probably be about it.

[Valadius]

My ballot:

Bert Blyleven
Andre Dawson
Rich Gossage
Mark McGwire
Jack Morris
Dale Murphy
Tim Raines
Jim Rice
Lee Smith
Alan Trammell

And I think that Dave Parker also deserves it. I really think that there is a serious backlog problem that hasn't been addressed, and I think that the best way to address it is to lower the percentage of votes needed for election to either 65% or 60%. As the article pointed out, the highest vote percentage a player who didn't eventually make it in ever got was Gil Hodges' 63.4%, and he deserves it. I think it saves the voters, the players, and the fans a lot of time.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Why doncha vote for Biff Pocoroba while you're at it.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I think lowering the percentage is a short-sighted idea that would taint the election of anyone who got in with less than 75%.

If there's a backlog, the voters can address it by voting, or the Hall can address it by changing the voting body. They're making their positions clear.

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

Valadius wrote: My ballot: Bert Blyleven Andre Dawson Rich Gossage Mark McGwire Jack Morris Dale Murphy Tim Raines Jim Rice Lee Smith Alan Trammell And I think that Dave Parker also deserves it. I really think that there is a serious backlog problem that hasn't been addressed, and I think that the best way to address it is to lower the percentage of votes needed for election to either 65% or 60%. As the article pointed out, the highest vote percentage a player who didn't eventually make it in ever got was Gil Hodges' 63.4%, and he deserves it. I think it saves the voters, the players, and the fans a lot of time.

Damn good ballot, Vala. I'd take off Morris, who falls just shy. But overall I like your picks.

Raines absolutely deserves it. He was one of the top players of his era.

[nymr83]

I'd vote for Raines alone out of the new candidates.
Of the old ones I'd vote for Blyleven, Trammell, and maybe Rice.

i don't think there is a "backlog" just a bunch of mediocre (in the HOF-sense, they were obviously all good playrs) guys who dont deserve the ultimate honor.
if there is a "backlog" though this would be the year to clear it because there are probably not going to be ANY inductions out of the new players leaving plenty of room for the older guys to get in. it may be illogical but i have the feeling that a good number of voters dont want to name too many guys in one year.
lowering the % would be really stupid, this should be an honor for great players and the more you lower it the more you make it a place for the good but not great.
gil hodges? please. if he's a hall of famer then you'd better get ready for jack clark, george foster, fred lynn, don mattingly, keith hernandez, cecil cooper, wally joyner, will clark, and my favorite player john olerud.

[Frayed Knot]

"I really think that there is a serious backlog problem that hasn't been addressed"

It's addressed every year!


"and I think that the best way to address it is to lower the percentage of votes needed for election to either 65% or 60%."

How 'bout 40%?



"As the article pointed out, the highest vote percentage a player who didn't eventually make it in ever got was Gil Hodges' 63.4%, and he deserves it."

According to some, not to others.



"I think it saves the voters, the players, and the fans a lot of time."

Yes, saving time is the biggest concern.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I agree with Namor that there's no backlog.

When it comes to the Hall of Fame, less is more.

I'd rather see them raise the percentage to 85 than reduce it to 65.

[Vic Sage]

Yes:
Mark McGwire (2nd year on ballot)-HOFM**= 169 / HOFCS**= 42
Jim Rice (14th) - 146 / 43
Rich Gossage (9th) - 126 / 19
Bert Blyleven (11th) - 120 / 50

Borderline:
Lee Smith (6th) - 135 / 13
Don Mattingly (8th) - 133 / 34
Dave Parker (12th) - 125 / 41
Jack Morris (9th) - 122 / 39
Andre Dawson (7th) - 118 / 43
Alan Trammell (7th) - 118 / 36
Dale Murphy (10th) - 115 / 34
Tommy John (14th) - 111 / 44
Dave Concepcion (15th*) - 106 / 25.9
Tim Raines (1st) - 90 / 46

No, but deserving of another year on the ballot:
Robb Nen (1st) - 92 / 15
Harold Baines (2nd) - 66.5 / 43
Chuck Knoblauch (1st) - 66.5 / 33.8
Chuck Finley (1st) - 53.5 /27
David Justice (1st) - 43.5 / 28.7

1 & Done:
Rod Beck - 63 / 13
Brady Anderson - 38 / 26
Travis Fryman - 36 / 26.4
Jose Rijo - 28 / 20
Todd Stottlemyre - 15 / 13
Shawon Dunston - 14 / 16.9

* last year on ballot
** HOF monitor [100+ = HOF credentials]
** HOF Career Standards [50+ = average HOFer

[nymr83]

if Chuck Finley is "1 & done" i don't see how Morris gets in, they had pretty similiar careers with Finley having a 10 point advantage in ERA+ and Morris having 800 more innings. neither really ever had a great peak.

Blyleven had 1000 innings more than Morris (1800 on Finley) and 13 pts of ERA+ (3 on Finley) and HE is borderline (but i'd put him in)

[Guest Edgy DC]

I don't necessarily get the "deserving of votes" tier. If you think they deserve votes, give them your votes.

[Valadius]

My view is, if it's going to happen anyway, why not let it happen sooner?

[Frayed Knot]

Valadius wrote: My view is, if it's going to happen anyway, why not let it happen sooner?

Who says it "has to happen" at all?

[Guest sharpie]

McGwire, Gossage, Raines but I wouldn't object if none of them are let in. Less is more.

[nymr83]

rather then drawing the "in/out" line, would anyone like to rank the eligible players (all the holdovers and first-timers) in terms of how deserving you feel they are (even if you feel all or none are deserving)?

[G-Fafif]

I have the sense that Raines is destined for one of those Sutter-type runs where several impassioned columns will be written on his behalf every December but the silent plurality will shut him out for the first half-dozen years at least. That's if he's lucky. He could get the Rice/Gossage treatment, which is the same as Sutter, except for not getting in (to date).

Tim Raines was the N.L. version of Rickey Henderson, certainly the most impressive leadoff hitter I've ever seen on a regular basis. He gets my non-existent vote. I'm also still pro-Concepcion after all these years, the unsung cog in the Big Red Machine.

[nymr83]

the "big red machine" already has the undeserving Tony Perez in the hall. lets not add to the stupidity by inducting a no-bat speed guy with a .322 OBP

[seawolf17]

="Nymr83"]if Chuck Finley is "1 & done" i don't see how Morris gets in, they had pretty similiar careers with Finley having a 10 point advantage in ERA+ and Morris having 800 more innings. neither really ever had a great peak. Blyleven had 1000 innings more than Morris (1800 on Finley) and 13 pts of ERA+ (3 on Finley) and HE is borderline (but i'd put him in)

Finley and Morris are only similar in that they're pitchers who have six letters in their last name. Finley only got Cy Young votes ONCE in his career: one point, in 1990. Finley's not even close.

Morris has three WS rings, five AS games (including two starts), seven years appearing on Cy ballots, five years appearing on MVP ballots.

I'm with Valadius to a certain point... these guys should be recognized. I'm not saying you need to let Johnny Estrada into the Hall because he hit .300 once, but when the discussion involves guys who were dominant for a long time -- Morris, Raines, Rice, Dawson -- I don't see what the problem is.