Armando Revisited (split from IGT 5/29)

[metirish]

I remember Valentine would bristle at suggestions that Benitez was a choker,Bobby was a huge supporter of his and Benitez of him.

Like others I seem to only remember when he failed,I do remember him striking out the side against the yankees once,think it was IL play and not the WS .

[Centerfield]

Wow, Benitez revisited.

In 1999, when the Mets were in a dogfight for a wild card spot in September, Benitez was a big reason the Mets remained alive. Though I've long since forgotten the exact numbers, he was great during that run (you don't remember any memorable blown saves do you?). He had two scoreless appearances in two close games against the Pirates in the last weekend of the season. Both kept the game tied, both would eventually end up in wins. Had he given up a run in either of those games, or in any game that month, it would have been blown up and the media would have ripped him for blowing it at the worst possible time. It never happened.

That post-season, he pitched 9 innings and gave up 1 run (he also allowed an inherited runner to tie the game in Game 4 of the NLDS.) That first run he gave up was in Game 6 of the NLCS in his second inning of work. Before that, he converted a save in Game 4 and didn't allow a run in Game 5 (the Grand Slam Single). Because of that one post-season run, he was accused of blowing it at the worst possible time.

In 2000, Benitez was again, great in September. In the post-season, he had two blown saves in 4 opportunities. The JT Snow Game, and Game 1 of the World Series. Critics again said he melted down in the worst possible spot.

Over the course of two post-seasons, he made 15 appearances with an ERA of 2.00.

In 2001, because of the two memorable games against the Braves, Benitez critics changed their tune from "Benitez sucks in the post-season" to "Benitez sucks in big games". They ignore the success he had in September prior to that year and the success he had prior to those games. He picked up 5 saves after 9/11 and picked up the win in the dramatic Piazza HR game after entering the game in the 8th (he closed it out in the 9th). Even his biggest critics concede that had he blown a save at any point during that stretch, it would have been "at the worst possible time." So anything short of perfection would have contributed to this reputation.

All in all, his "history of failure" can be boiled down to five games over the course of three years during which he was one of the most dominant relief pitchers in baseball. The Mets basically played with no safety net during that entire time and Benitez pitched well in countless big games. (For instance, does anyone remember that Benitez pitched 2 scoreless innings in the Agbayani Walk-Off game? Do you think they would remember if he did give up a run?) By comparison, Braden Looper had 8 blown saves in 2005 including one where he blew two separate leads to the Braves in one game.

It's amazing, and sad, that Benitez has been so villified by Mets fans. His "choking" is as big a myth as Jeter's super-competitive-clutchosity.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

IIRC his famous 01 "blowup" also came on the third or fourth consecutive day of work and there being discussion of his being ridden too hard even going in. There was one game in the middle there he worked which was desperate but not serious, if I recall properly.

[Centerfield]

Benitez had worked in 4 of the 5 previous games. In the two games immediately prior, he had come in in the 8th inning.

[Frayed Knot]

]I guess my problem is that I don't think that the modern 9th-inning closer is that important a role. He's in a no-win situation where when he succeeds it's not a big deal. (He just has to pitch one inning, and often he can even give up a run or two.) But when he fails he's the guy who spoiled everything. He's the guy who turned a win into a loss. Everything was going fine until this schmuck came into the game.

All true. But the oddity about Armando is that he is treated as if he is now and always was uniquely lousy and untrustworthy when compared to the subset of his fellow closers - instead of it being recognized that his foibles were no worse than many and were actually better than most.
I've said before that in any given year the fans of about 25 teams hate their closer since, as you say, HE is the guy who ruins everything for your team and you don't feel it when the other guy does so. But it's now gotten to the point with Benitez where the rep about him - and not just from bitter Met fans but also from supposedly more neutral and rational media members - is that his career has been nothing but a string of epic failures.

Some wise-ass doing the highlite stuff on SNY the other night peppered his on-going description of Tuesday's game with: ".. and then the Giants brought in Armando Benitez - although why I have no idea"
It's like all logic and sense of proportion gets lost whenever his name is brought up.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I'd be curious to see a listing of all-time post-season leaders in blown saves.

According to Wikipedia, blown saves are not an official stat, but they've been tracked since 1988.

If that's the case, it looks like the first ever post-season blown save was by Jay Howell of the Dodgers, against the Mets in LA, in NLCS Game 1:

http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/1988/B10040LAN1988.htm

[TransMonk]

Yancy Street Gang wrote: I'd be curious to see a listing of all-time post-season leaders in blown saves.

That's a hard list to find. I read while looking that the Braves blew 11 of 33 saves between 1991 and 2001.

[Benjamin Grimm]

It might have to be assembled by looking at box scores.

[soupcan]

On the player stats page on mlb.com they have a 'save' column and next to that what appears to be a 'save opportunies' column.

It's odd though b/c they don't give a total number of save opps. at the bottom and in some cases a pitcher is listed as having a save but there was no save opp.

[Benjamin Grimm]

And failing to get a save doesn't mean you blew it. You could have just held it for the next guy.

[Elster88]

Breaking news on SNY: San Francisco Chronicle reporting a Benitez trade.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Name that team.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Crazy guess: Sox.

And by Sox I mean Sawx.

[Elster88]

Nah their bullpen is straight.

[Guest OlerudOwned]

It's da Fish.

Scary 2004 flashback.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Elster88 wrote: Nah their bullpen is straight.

I was hoping they'd get a little crazy and re-consider Papelbon as a starter.

[Elster88]

Maybe. Okajima too. Not that I'm sure if you're serious or not.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Seriously crazy.

[seawolf17]

Linky.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Armando blew the save.

Now he sleeps wit' da Fishes.

Strictly business. Nothing personal.

[bmfc1]

metsblog says that Armando is being traded to the Marlins.

[Guest OlerudOwned]

He's revisiting.

[DocTee]

From the same site-- yikes!

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/05/31/national/a140504D69.DTL

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Benitez was always hocking on sandwiches. No wonder they traded him.

[metirish]

Games against the Marlins just got tougher.

[Frayed Knot]

metirish wrote: Games against the Marlins just got tougher.

I dunno. In the minds of many Met fans, they just got easier.




Summing up some stuff on Benitez

While no one is claiming he was the perfect closer duing his time here, there have always been 3 general themes that drove me nuts about much of the anti-Armando diatribes

1) the notion that his presence as a closer was a detriment to the team to the point where virtually any other choice would have been an improvement

Tracking the 15 closers who spent the most time in that role during the time he was here (1999-2002) among those, Armando ranked:

4th in save pct (88.5%)
1st in BA-against
5th in WhiP
1st in K/9
2nd in ERA
7th in SLG-against

But what the detractors want you to believe was that while he was better than average in all those categories, his contemporaries were managing to give up more hits, more runs, strike out fewer batters, and blow games at a higher rate, yet somehow do it all at times and in games that didn't hurt as bad - even though virtually all closers are used in the same way.



2) That there was a predictable pattern to when and against who his "meltdowns" would occur; both in that he was a "bully" who would beat up on the weak sisters but then crumble at the sight of good teams, and that he was a near-perfect closer from April thru August and then a disaster afterward (Francesa is STILL spinning that one)

But that doesn't stand up to scrutiny

	APR	MAY	JUNE	JULY	AUG	SEPT
ERA	3.48	3.21	1.90	2.15	2.36	3.19
HITS	50	43	32	34	36	30
BBs	37	25	34	28	20	23
WHiP	1.35	1.11	1.00	1.14	1.01	1.23
Bl Svs	6	3	4	5	3	4

and the teams that he blew those 25 saves against were a mixed bag as well:
1 each: DBacks, Braves, Cubs, Reds, Brewers, Pirates, Padres, Orioles, Red Sox, DRays
2 each: Astros, Yanx
3: Expos; 4 times: Phillies & Marlins (Hmmm, 'Spos & Marlins, weren't those exactly the teams he supposedly dominated?)

Now I realize that Blown Saves aren't the only measure of bad games but, between the BS games and the rest of the standard stats, I contend that anyone claiming to see a predictable pattern there is seeing only what he wants.



3) And finally it's the notion that somehow all of his bad outings were solely the result of mental weakness and never just an off-night; a condition which apparently didn't affect other closers who often weren't as successful as him. It's as if they believed Armando to be the most talented pitcher ever to trod the Earth and therefore perfection was the only acceptable result.

[Guest Edgy DC]

i think, maybe if they're dumping Armando Benitez, San Francisco might do well to get themselves a real firstbaseman.

Trade somebody for Craig Brazell or something.

[soupcan]

From the 'Perpetuating The Myth department: - The two accounts of the trade that went down last night that I read (NY Times and NY Post) both included variations of the phrase 'Giants trade struggling Benitez'

I think he was 9-11in save situations. Maybe he wasn't lighting the world on fire but its hardly 'struggling'.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Whatever happened to Lance Neikro?

IIRC he killed us in one series shortly after coming up.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Lance got DFA'd in early May and now has an .881 OPS in 14 games for your Vancouver Grizzlies.