Jorge Julio traded for El Duque

[Willets Point]

Ex-Yankees turn my stomach. Are we going to have to do the El Puque dance now?

[MFS62]

So, the off season trade actually works out to be:
Kris & Anna Benson for El Duque & Maine & about $3.5 mil for 2006 and $8.0 mil for 2007.
This gives them some additional financial flexibility come trading deadline.

Later

[Frayed Knot]

My initial inclination is that I don't like this deal.

Listed at 36 but widely rumored to be 40, El Ducky has had some great stretches during his time here (almost all of it in the Bronx) but is also moody & high-maintenance who reportedly could be a pain to deal with in a complaining, prima-donna kind of way and was unavailable for various lengths of time.
He did, however, (as much as I hate it being touted as a predictive factor) have a ton of "big game" success, first w/the MFYs and even with the ChiSox last year. Ozzie brought him in during the 1st round playoffs last October when the BoSox loaded the bases (against another pitcher) w/no one out. Ducky danced out of it w/o a ball leaving the infield and the Bostonians never recovered from it as they got their collective asses swept. Chicago dealt him over the winter for Javy Vazquez and I had pretty much lost track of him since then (Snakes have been totally off my radar screen) but those numbers look pretty ugly aside from the whole home/road split thing.

I guess I kind of wanted to believe in Julio's "STUFF!!" even if it would have probably driven me nuts in the long run; or maybe I'm just reacting to the fact that something about Hernandez always rubbed me the wrong way and I always expected him to turn back into a pumpkin at any moment.
But I suppose he could be useful either as a reg starter or a fill-in so long as his Clemente-like hypochondria gets put on hold for a while.

[metirish]

What sucks for me is that Julio would seem the type of pitcher that Peterson would love to tutor, freat stuff and all that , I guess Omar really wanted a starter..I dunno.

[RealityChuck]

The question is: Is Hernandes better than Gonzalez or Lima Bean?

Probably. Julio is giving up a bit, but it will give Heath Bell a shot at the bullpen, so it's not that major a loss, and they have a veteran to pitch for now.

[nymr83]

i like this trade, but only as long as it is an experiment. i never liked julio so i'm happy to get a guy who could potentially be decent in the rotation for him, but if hernandez stinks the mets need to cut bait with him. if the mets stick with him through more than 4 or 5 bad starts this will be a bad trade just for blocking heilman.

[Gwreck]

Heilman's not being blocked. He's just too valuable in the bullpen, another shutout inning tonight. Everybody seems to forget that he really hasn't shown very much as a starter.

The deal clearly has upside -- no more Lima, and if Soler pitches well, no more Gonzalez either. I think after the start on Thursday, Gonzalez is going to get sent down, with Bell taking Julio's spot in the bullpen.

It'll be fine to cut bait with Hernandez because Maine and Bannister will be back after not too long -- but considering what's invested in him, I think he'll get quite a few chances.

[Zvon]

Frayed Knot wrote: My initial inclination is that I don't like this deal.

Ditto, and for all the reasons you've mentioned FK.
We did need an inning eater so Ill give this the 'ol wait and see.

[Guest vtmet]

I wonder if part of the reason for El Duque is to help ease Alay Soler's nerves on his jump to the bigs...

Looking at his righty/lefty splits, makes me wonder whether he'd be more valuable in the bullpen if Soler performs and Bannister makes it back...

[smg58]

It can't hurt, so I guess I'm for it. I'm making no promises on it turning out particularly well, though.

[Frayed Knot]

"We did need an inning eater so Ill give this the 'ol wait and see."

Except he's not really an innings eater, he's more of a high pitch count/take forever, always teetering on the edge of disaster/lucky to get 6 out of him even when he's good type of guy. Think of a cross between the worst aspects of Trax and what Bannister was early on.

Ah hell, I suppose it won't be too bad. The downside is minimal and there could be some up if he locates his bouts of goodness. Just not a guy I'm looking forward to rooting for.

[Guest Rotblatt]

I don't like it. He's old and hasn't been good since 2004.

The only upside is that Bell is now on the roster. Presumably, Gonzalez will be going down soon?

[Guest Edgy DC]

Maybe, but he'd have to be exposed to waivers.

[Guest Rotblatt]

Edgy DC wrote: Maybe, but he'd have to be exposed to waivers.

Meh. I don't mind.

I suppose we could send Bell down again but what use will Gonzalez be up here?

[MFS62]

When Joe Lewis was defending his Heavyweight boxing championship, they said his opponents were members of the Bum of the Month Club.
I think Omar remembered that concept when trying to find a fourth and fifth starter.
Oh well, let's see what this one can do.
At least they dumped some salary by making this move.

Later

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

MFS62 wrote: they dumped some salary by making this move.

Unless you start the move at Wiggy, in which case they lost considerable money over the last few years, and lost some talent to boot.

I'm not sure if they save much if anything just on Julio for Duque. Doesn't Duque make more than Julio at this point? I'd think so.

It's only a money saving move, if I'm correct about Julio's salary, if you start the clock with Benson, and I have no idea why you'd pick that point, being the least logical of the three to pick.

[Guest Rotblatt]

From Newsday:

][bullshit about how Soler is nowhere near the kind of person or pitcher El Duque is] El Duque, by contrast, was fast-tracked to the major leagues. He stepped off the raft and into the rotation of the 1998 Yankees, a team that won 114 games, as if he had been doing it all his life. His October record - 9-3, 2.55 ERA - is better than that of any Yankee pitcher of the same era, and last year he repeated his postseason magic for the Chicago White Sox, entering a Division Series game against the Red Sox with the bases loaded, no one out and the tying run at third. Of course, nobody scored. These days, El Duque does it on guts and he does it on guile. His addition to the Mets would be an immediate upgrade even if the rotation weren't decimated by injury and failure. Soler, on the other hand, was the epitome of emergency starter, his rapid promotion necessitated by injuries to Maine and Brian Bannister and the ineffectiveness of Jose Lima and Jeremi Gonzalez. In baseball, they like to say "You can't walk off the island," but in the first inning, Soler pitched as if he planned to walk back. He walked his first three batters, allowed three runs and needed 30 pitches to record his first out. "Las mariposas" - the butterflies Soler had spoken of on Tuesday - were flying around his gut. But after Chris Woodward booted what could have been a double-play ball by Ryan Howard, allowing two runs to score, Soler suddenly settled down, first controlling his emotions, then his pitches. And in a very Duque-esque recovery, Soler shut down the Phillies over the next five innings. After the game, Soler, who speaks little English, was asked how he felt about having El Duque as a teammate. "Muy contento," he said. No translation necessary.

Jesus fucking christ, I don't think I can survive the "He's AMAZING because he's a former YANKEE" bullshit for the next four months.

The guy's been flat-out bad for two years now, and he's practically fucking guaranteed a spot in the rotation no matter what he does.

[Guest Rotblatt]

"El Duque" over the last two years:

174 IP, 5.38 ERA, 1.49 WHIP, 7.40 K/9, 3.62 BB/9, 2.04 K/BB, 1.34 HR/9

Benson over the same:

234.7 IP, 4.26 ERA, 1.28 WHIP, 4.83 K/9, 2.72 BB/9, 1.77 K/BB, 1.15 HR/9

Basically, Minaya completely fucked himself with these trades. Especially since Willie's going to give El Duque an inhuman about of rope to hang himself and our playoff chances in.

Was it really so fucking hard to move Heilman into the rotation?

[Guest Edgy DC]

There's a bad misuse of the "walk off the island" clich� there, also.

]These days, El Duque does it on guts and he does it on guile.

Except when he doesn't do it at all, which has been with increasing frequency.

Did Soler not exhibit some of those virtues in settling down and turning his start around?

It's not altogether indicative after one game, but Soler currently has a 3.00 ERA. Hernandez is at 6.11.

[Guest 86-Dreamer]

Matthews also states in that column that Soler had "some vaguely explained visa problems" - c'mon do a little bit of research please - there was nothing vague about Soler's inability to enter the U.S.

[Elster88]

We gave up nothing. We traded Julio at his peak value. Please don't lose sight of the fact that Julio has not had a good season since 2001.

[Elster88]

Rotblatt wrote: "El Duque" over the last two years: 174 IP, 5.38 ERA, 1.49 WHIP, 7.40 K/9, 3.62 BB/9, 2.04 K/BB, 1.34 HR/9 Benson over the same: 234.7 IP, 4.26 ERA, 1.28 WHIP, 4.83 K/9, 2.72 BB/9, 1.77 K/BB, 1.15 HR/9 Basically, Minaya completely fucked himself with these trades. Especially since Willie's going to give El Duque an inhuman about of rope to hang himself and our playoff chances in.

Agreed.

[Elster88]

Dupe.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

I'm not all that jazzed about Hernandez myself, and saw Julio as, if nothing else, a cheap insurance policy in the event of an injury to another reliever. He was also pacing about 2 K's per inning, and it wasn't all that long ago I'd have killed all of you for a reliever of that ilk. Plus it makes the Benson fiasco all that more mysterious.

I suspected from the start the whole Benson trade thingy was a gambit to effect a deal for an even better starter, and El Duque is hardly that. Not to say the $$ saved can't still go toward a real No. 2/3 down the road.

Good luck to El Duque. Your No. 26 jersey will be waiting for you.

[Willets Point]

You know if Omar is looking for a former Yankee pitchers in his 40's I know one who may be avaialable to sign as a free agent.

[Guest silverdsl]

Rotblatt wrote: He stepped off the raft and into the rotation of the 1998 Yankees, a team that won 114 games, as if he had been doing it all his life.

Wasn't the raft story found to have been made up BS? It's been a while since I read the book on him so my memory might be faulty, but I thought he came here on a motorboat and they fudged the details so no one would get arrested for anything, not knowing that it would take on a life of it's own.

El Duque is 9,000 years old in baseball years and has that back issue, but he does seem to pitch very well under pressure and in the spotlight. I wouldn't expect greatness from him at this point in his career, but I think it's possible that if his health stays good that he will be useful.

[Willets Point]

How dare you question Yankees Myths and Legends? Do you wish to be stripped of your Yankee fan status?

SC=100

[Elster88]

El Duque to pitch Sunday.

[Vic Sage]

Julio for Bell = not much of a downgrade, if any at all.
Duque for J.Gonzo = not much of an upgrade, if any at all.

I actually think the impact of this trade will be negligible, in the short run, since I don't see El Duque being superior to Gonzalez at this point in their respective careers. I think they're both just short-term place holders for the #5 slot in the rotation, until Bannister gets back. But what about the #4 slot? We still don't have a SPer to replace Zambrano, unless we're convinced that Soler is a long term solution. I'm all for giving him enough of a shot to establish himself, but we're going to be in a pennant race and we can't stay too long with duque or soler if they're not getting it done.

And metaphysics aside, i don't credit El Duque as beling more useful in "big games" at this point in his career, due to age, physical condition and the consequent overall deterioration in his play.

#4 - El Duque / Bannister / Gonzalez
#5 - Soler / El Duque / Bannister / Gonzalez / Maine / Oliver

these are our choices?
but Heilman still isn't a consideration?

fukk.

[Frayed Knot]

So - following that scintillating performance - Gonzalez has been DFA'd, presumably to make room for O. Hernandez.
I guess Bell gets to stay a while to play the role of Jorge Julio.