A.P. Discuss SNY Thread

[seawolf17]

What Greg said. The problem is, they've been blowhards for so long, they're some sort of institution. I'll admit it, I listen semi-regularly, because the alternative (up the dial, Mr. Yankee Face-Sucker) is even worse and every couple of weeks they actually have an interesting discussion.

[Guest Edgy DC]

There are a lot of massive frauds in the media.

Pretty cool that the Mets flagship has the two biggest.

[Guest ScarletKnight41]

seawolf17 wrote: What Greg said. The problem is, they've been blowhards for so long, they're some sort of institution. I'll admit it, I listen semi-regularly, because the alternative (up the dial, Mr. Yankee Face-Sucker) is even worse and every couple of weeks they actually have an interesting discussion.

Those are your only alternatives?

Is your radio broken? Don't you own a CD player?

[soupcan]

That's all well and good and they are hardly my favorite radio personalities. I keep FAN on in my office because I like the sportstalk in the background and ESPN radio is just as bad if not worse.

I agree that they are both pompous arrogant windbags with their own agendas designed only to promote themselves as experts and influence peddlers.

I'm curious about this Cohen issue though. Sure Mets fans would love it and it would improve the broadcast but is it fair to McCarthy and Rose? Cohen made a decision to move to TV, involved in that decision was the realization that should the Mets get into the postseason (a definite possibility at the time Cohen made his decision) his voice would not be heard.

McCarthy and Rose work as a team all year, developing a rapport and understanding of how the other works. Not an easy thing to do I'm sure. It must take quite some time to find a comfort zone in those kind of relationships.

Now, if you believe that Cohen did initiate this, McCarthy basically gets pushed aside. Its nice that Cohen gets to do postseason games but don't you think McCarthy might have been looking forward to doing them as well?

Maybe McCarthy as the rookie broadcaster is expected to acquiesce and maybe he doesn't have a problem at all. Does Cohen have a professional responsibility to honor Tom's and Howie's work/relationship? I'm just wondering if this even a story.

[metirish]

Greg your blog bit on Trax dated Sptember 25 was a great read.

[stevejrogers]

G-Fafif wrote: M&MD are world-class A-holes. As usual, at their remove from their audience, they miss the point. This isn't about slapping Tom McCarthy or even gratifying Gary Cohen. It's about serving the Mets fan with the best possible broadcast. They have someone who is considered (rightly, I believe) among the best announcers in the business, someone associated with the team like no other current voice, and he is available. Two innings of Gary Cohen is better than no innings of Gary Cohen. Nine (or however many it takes) innings of Gary Cohen would be ideal, but that wish is prohibitive given that Tom McCarthy does have a job. I've truly stopped listening to M&MD after years of insisting I would. The last time I tuned in for anything but the Willie Randolph report was the day after we clinched when they spit all over it from the top of the show. It may be their cute way of tweaking, but it's no longer fresh and it's not remotely funny. One night they ran over when I turned on the FAN for "Mets Extra" and I was subject to a serious discussion that Carlos Beltran is not a good defensive centerfielder. It was only 30 seconds or so but it convinced me yet again for good that they are the biggest frauds in the media. There isn't a sinkhole large enough to swallow them, their egos and their immense lack of knowledge and talent. (Insert your own Francesa girth joke here if you like.)

To be fair though, we'd be killing the Yankees and Michael Kay if he pulled this kind of stunt any time during the 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005 and 2006 postseasons (though in all likelyhood Kay's working for ESPN radio killed any shot of him or the Yankees pulling something like that off)

Its one thing to bring a retired legend like a By Samm in the 1980 WS into the booth or someone who doesn't work the games anymore like Marv Albert in the 2004 Stanley Cup, its another to bring a guy in who calls the games on TV all season just so they can be behind the radio mike for the postseason

[Guest Edgy DC]

I kill the Yankees for hiring Michael Kay to call any game any day of the week.

But, if, say, Jim Kaat got a post-season radio assignment when his TV duties ended with the regular season, I'd hope I'd have the sense to commend the Yankees on their sense, if I commented at all.

[metsmarathon]

its off topic, but most of the time, francessa sounds like more of a yankee suckup than kay does.

and i really don't think too many of us would really care what the yankees did. if anything, bringing in any guest announcer would be an improvement from what they have currently on the radio. they'd deserve to be commended.

i hardly think, too, that cohen demanded to be put on the air during the playoffs. and even if he did, what leverage does he hold over WFAN anyways?

its not like tom mccarthy is getting shut out of the playoffs, right? he still gets to do everything but one innings' worth of work in the middle of the game, right? i don't see what the big deal is. not one bit.

also, does mccarthy get paid by the inning, or something? its not like cohen is taking food off of tom's table.

an addition to the booth is an addition to the broadcast, as far as this situation is concerned.

[Frayed Knot]

Yancy Street Gang wrote: If Mike and the Mad Dog think this is an important issue, then I'm sure it is.

Well, to them it is; pretty much making a case for Greg's (FaFiF) argument about their disconnect with the audience.
MadDog in particular, who grew up as a true child of the sports/TV age, sees things through that prism almost exclusively and is endlessly facinated by the machinations of radio/TV braodcasts;
- Who's doing what game?
- Why is the #1 team assigned to Jets v Colts instead of ...?
- He always knows which announcers have the lead during which innings of the broadcasts, etc.

In short, this is big stuff to insiders like them (MD in particular) but not particularly to fans. The impact is almost certainly minimal: is anyone really going to tune in (or out) based on 2 innings of drop-in work by GC that wouldn't have anyway?

I remember seeing Katie Couric on a talk show years ago probably not long after she took over the 'Today Show' and was becoming a nationally known name. She was talking about getting an interview with the storymaker-du-jour and how excited she was about beating Barbara Walters to the punch with it ... and you could tell how much it meant to her but, at the same time I'm realizing that virtually no one else cares in the slightest who "scored" the first interview with whoever it was in their 15 minutes of fame. But to her it was (perhaps understandably) everything. It's all in the perspective.




Gary & Murph, in my mind, always suffered from a gap in inter-generational chemistry but I'm not sure if there was more to it than that even though it seems to be an accepted "fact" in some circles.

[G-Fafif]

SteveJRogers wrote: To be fair though, we'd be killing the Yankees and Michael Kay if he pulled this kind of stunt any time during the 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005 and 2006 postseasons (though in all likelyhood Kay's working for ESPN radio killed any shot of him or the Yankees pulling something like that off) Its one thing to bring a retired legend like a By Samm in the 1980 WS into the booth or someone who doesn't work the games anymore like Marv Albert in the 2004 Stanley Cup, its another to bring a guy in who calls the games on TV all season just so they can be behind the radio mike for the postseason

To the extent that a single Mets fan cares what Michael Kay does with his Octobers (and it would be an extraordinarily limited extent), it would be fine if he did Yankee radiocasts. That would guarantee almost none of us would hear him because I doubt many of us would be listening.

Better of course that there are no Yankee games in October, but one miracle at a time.

By Saam's a nice reference, but it was the '76 NLCS the longtime Phillie announcer was brought back for. He had retired a year earlier with failing eyesight, just missing out on Philly's return to postseason.

And Marv Albert? Do you mean '94? He was still the Rangers' radio voice of record then, but missed a ton of games due to basketball commitments. You couldn't argue he wasn't strongly identified with that team at that time.

As for Cohen, he was the radio guy for 17 seasons, the most recent of which was last year. This isn't, say, Dave O'Brien or Ron Darling even being thrown in the radio booth out of the orange and blue for a playoff game.

[And thanks metirish re: trax.]

[metirish]

Gary tonight talking about the flight to DC for this series said, - " when Tom McCarthy and I got on the plane we thought we might get to see the game but it was in the ninth inning when we landed".....

[stevejrogers]

Raissman apparantly has alot of problems with Cohen doing some time in the booth

]Gary Groan Cohen's push for playoff radio time is lame Gary Cohen will work two innings (one doing play-by-play, the other as an "analyst) of every Mets postseason game on the radio. Why? And who pushed to have Cohen, the TV voice of the Mets on SportsNet New York, wet his beak in the WFAN Mets radio playoff booth? Shea spies say it was Cohen himself who lobbied to return to the booth he resided in for 17 seasons. An SNY spokesman refutes that notion, saying it was network boss Jon Litner who came up with the idea. It really does not matter who pushed for Cohen to work the fifth and sixth innings of every playoff game with either Howie Rose or Tom McCarthy. This is a bad idea. It's gratuitous big-timing at its worst. Think about it: Cohen, who once told me he had no interest in ever doing TV, nevertheless took a marquee job as SNY's play-by-play voice. Not only is he making more money than he did on the radio, but is receiving tremendous exposure as well. Obviously all that exposure is not enough. Nor is all the air time Cohen will get working on SNY's pre- and postgame playoff shows. For reasons known only to Cohen, Litner and head FANdroid Mark Chernoff, it has become essential for Cohen to take some of the playoff spotlight away from Rose, McCarthy and Ed Coleman. Never mind that these voices have worked an entire season on the radio. Never mind that they have more than earned the right to reap the reward of having the playoff booth - and every inning of the playoffs - to themselves. That's a minor detail when the suits decide to bring in their idea of a "star," making Rose, McCarthy and Coleman all look like ham-and-eggers. Yes, all of a sudden, these three experienced radio guys desperately need Cohen returning to his radio home to show them a thing or two? Yeah, Cohen is coming in to work a couple of innings to make the radio playoff coverage complete. To make it special. That's the gaga spin being sold by FAN and SNY suits. It's total baloney. Cohen has made his well-earned reputation as a pure baseball guy. For him, the game has always come first. By agreeing to glom radio time, Cohen is putting himself above the game, and above his fellow announcers. The way this has been presented, it's not just "listen to Mets playoff baseball on WFAN," it's "listen to Mets playoff baseball with the extra added attraction of the one and only Gary Cohen." How do you think Cohen would've felt if someone flew into his radio coop to work the 2000 Subway Series? Last month, when asked how he would feel about not doing playoff play-by-play, Cohen said it was something he was "aware" of when he signed with SNY. "What I'll try to do is enjoy my role in SNY's (pre- and postgame) coverage and be as big a part of that as I can," Cohen said in September. Guess that TV "part" is just not big enough.

Gotta agree with Raissman (as well as Mike and Chris)

Like I said, this isn't bringing in a legend who missed out on calling a postseason because of retirement. I admit I was wrong on the Albert 1994 run, but this really does smack of a guy getting "Buyers Remorse" about not being involved in the P-B-P of postseason games.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

BF friggin' D.

[stevejrogers]

Okay, this forum doesn't give 2 rips about memorabillia except to put in spokes of bikes, and the behind the scenes intrigue of broadcasting.

FWIW Ralph Kiner never pulled such a stunt during the Mets postseason runs of 1986 and 1988. And he'd had been away from the radio booth for 4 years at by 1986! (Yes I know he was part of the 1969 and 1973 coverage but still)

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

I don't give two rips about the behind the scenes intrigue of broadcasting.

If WFAN and SNY and Gary Cohen are okay with him doing a couple of innings, it's okay with me.

Is Tom McCarthy's nose out of joint? I doubt it. And if it is, it's more of a reflection on Tom McCarthy than on Gary Cohen.

[Guest ScarletKnight41]

It would be different if Tom was being relieved of his duties in order for Gary to broadcast the games. But we're talking about two frickin' innings. It seems like Raissman has a real bug up his ass if he's so worked up over this.

[Guest Edgy DC]

]Gotta agree with Raissman (as well as Mike and Chris)

And I've got to way disagree. This is no. big. deal.

This is what sports radio personalities do. They make controversy out of nothing, so they have something to rave and spit about and fill the lonely hours for their sponsors.

]For reasons known only to Cohen, Litner and head FANdroid Mark Chernoff...

Mark Chernoff has a long history in radio on both sides of the mic and, as much as I dislike WFAN, probably doesn't deserve that crack.

]...it has become essential for Cohen to take some of the playoff spotlight away from Rose, McCarthy and Ed Coleman.

The playoff spotlight belongs to Jose Reyes, David Wright, Carlos Beltran, Tom Glavine, Carlos Delgado, et al.

It's those making a BFD out of this that are placing announcers above the game.

And Steve's incorrect. Bob Murphy was ill and in bad voice during part of the 1986 post-season and Ralph Kiner filled in for him. There was no "stunt" then and there likely isn't now.

The Mets didn't need the back end of their stellar rotation in 1986, so Sid Fernandez and Rick Aguilera went into the bullpen and Doug Sisk and Randy Niemann dealt with it. It's getting good men to do a good job. The FAN broadcasters have far less to deal with and I imagine they don't see a problem.

In case nobody has noticed, broadcast teams tend to grow in the post-season.

[stevejrogers]

Edgy DC wrote: And Steve's incorrect. Bob Murphy was ill and in bad voice during part of the 1986 post-season and Ralph Kiner filled in for him. There was no "stunt" then and there likely isn't now.

That I didn't recall, (me being 9 and not listening to the games on the radio and all) but since it was Kiner pinch-hitting for Murph, there is a difference.

]The Mets didn't need the back end of their stellar rotation in 1986, so Sid Fernandez and Rick Aguilera went into the bullpen and Doug Sisk and Randy Niemann dealt with it. It's getting good men to do a good job. The FAN broadcasters have far less to deal with and I imagine they don't see a problem.

That doesn't seem like a great analogy at all. Sisk and Niemann weren't being dropped from the roster so Sid and Augilera would go to the pen. They were all part of the same 24 (I think it was still 24 that year) man roster on 8/31/1986 so it was just moving deck chairs around

I know Rose and McCarthy aren't going to NOT do the games, but this is like if Russo and Francesa liking their time in the booth back in June so much that they decided to do a game this October.

You can't say this isn't about Gary Cohen's ego getting in the way, granted its small potatoes compared to whats going on on-the field, but its still a story

[Guest ScarletKnight41]

You can think of it as ego or you can think of it as wanting to be a part of the postseason after working with this team for 17 years.

Either way, it isn't a story.

[stevejrogers]

ScarletKnight41 wrote: You can think of it as ego or you can think of it as wanting to be a part of the postseason after working with this team for 17 years. Either way, it isn't a story.

But its not like he hasn't done postseason games and WS games, and he is slated to be a big part of SNY's pre and post game coverage of EVERY game, including being in the ballpark for all games (I think YES has kept Kay in the Stamford studios for postseason coverage)

[Guest ScarletKnight41]

Which is why it should be a no-brainer that he participate in the postseason games in some way.

Don't buy into the party line that there's anything about this situation that makes it newsworthy. You're contributing to the mountain building out of this molehill.

[metirish]

this is so amazing to me,I bet Gary,Howie and Tom will end up addressing this in the next few days.

[Guest ScarletKnight41]

The guys in the booth are praising Chris Cotter and giving him props on the relationship that he's built up with the players during the course of the season.

[Guest Edgy DC]

SteveJRogers wrote: That I didn't recall, (me being 9 and not listening to the games on the radio and all) but since it was Kiner pinch-hitting for Murph, there is a difference.

The point is you've got your facts wrong.

SteveJRogers wrote: That doesn't seem like a great analogy at all. Sisk and Niemann weren't being dropped from the roster so Sid and Augilera would go to the pen.

SteveJRogers wrote: I know Rose and McCarthy aren't going to NOT do the games

So which is it? You're saying one thing then another. Are these guys giving up a roster spot or are they sharing the booth for two innings.

SteveJRogers wrote: You can't say this isn't about Gary Cohen's ego getting in the way

This isn't about Gary Cohen's ego getting in the way.

[stevejrogers]

Edgy DC wrote: So which is it? You're saying one thing then another. Are these guys giving up a roster spot or are they sharing the booth for two innings.

Augliera and Sid weren't "hogging" up innings in the back of the Mets pen in the 1986 postseason.

Manager's decision and progative to use his staff the way he saw fit. The best way to win was to use his #4 and 5 starters as long men in the bullpen rather than the 3rd and 4th guys in the pen

Cohen can be seen as "hogging" mike time in the broadcast booth

] This isn't about Gary Cohen's ego getting in the way

If you want to believe it wasn't his call or not, its still him getting "face time" in the expense of those who have been doing it all year. Something that has no bearing on any outcome of a ball game, hense its all about ego stroking.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

And the reason we should care about this is...?

[stevejrogers]

Yancy Street Gang wrote: And the reason we should care about this is...?

There are actual people who do like behind the scenes intrigue and poltics of the media industry.

I mean there is a book out about the history of NYC sports broadcasting, and I'm sure WFAN deserves a book written about it someday

[stevejrogers]

And the reason the All Purpose SNY thread exists why?

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Because we're viewers. Not because we're broadcasting wonks.

[stevejrogers]

Yancy Street Gang wrote: Because we're viewers. Not because we're broadcasting wonks.

Okay fine, so why is there even a CPF or an UMDB then?