Its the end...For Shea

[Benjamin Grimm]

I also agree with JB. I have a suspicion that forty years from now the next generation will want to knock down this new place and build something reminiscent of Shea.

There's a replica of Independence Hall at Knott's Berry Farm in California. It's completely out of place there. Same would be true of an Ebbetts Field in the big Queens parking lot.

I'd like to see the blue and orange "tiles" (those giant rippled metal sheets) on the facade on the new park. Let's give nods to Mets history. I don't decorate my home to look like the places where my great grandparents lived.

[Centerfield]

I think the Ebbets Field-type facade is ugly.

[Guest Rotblatt]

I like the Ebbet's Field facade thing. I also like the "bridge" theme. Kind of unique, and it's certainly works in NY.

I agree, however, that the focus should be on the Mets, not on the Dodgers. It'd be one thing if the Mets were moving to Brooklyn, but they're not. Which is too bad, really, since it'd make my commute to Shea a lot easier.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Whatever they name the new park, I hope the fans collectively insist on calling it "Shea."

Philadelphia had a similar shorthand for "The Vet" and that hasn't been replaced at all. Calling Citizens Bank Park "The Bank" thankfully hasn't caught on. The local station I listen to, WHYY-FM (the public station) doesn't seem to ever call the park by its name. They say, "The Phillies will be at home at the ballpark to play the Cardinals." Maybe it's because as a public radio station they don't want to give plugs to a company that's not a sponsor, but whatever the reason I applaud the decision to not mention the name.

[metirish]

Speaking of new stadiums, anyone hear anything on the new Busch Stadium?

[Guest ABG]

Only the Mets could have advertisements in the design of the stadium.

Lousy cheap ass org.

[Frayed Knot]

Willets Point wrote: Is there an echo in here?

Is there an echo in here?

Mmmm, I guess there is.

]MLB rules state that any new ballpark must ahve fould line distances of st least 330 feet.

Yeah, and virtually every single stadium built since they've put in that rule has ignored and/or gotten a waiver to bypass minimum.
Whether it's a typo (I hope) or not, it's a silly rule if they're not going to enforce it. It's like having a law saying you can't do something ... unless you ask nicely.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

abogdan wrote: At least they're keeping the scenic views of the chop shops. Shea's a dump. I'll miss it, of course, but I also miss my first apartment. And that place was a dump.

Actually looks like the Chop Shops will be obstructed by the high right field stands and scoreboard and the new stadium will be angled so as to offer a better view of the Bay, whitestone, etc.

[Guest sharpie]

1,600(!) seating capacity in the Sterling Lounge plus over 700 in the Ebbets Lounge.

Where's the damn Seaver Lounge? Since Arizona has a pool in right field, can't we have a Crane Pool?

[Benjamin Grimm]

Frayed Knot wrote: Yeah, and virtually every single stadium built since they've put in that rule has ignored and/or gotten a waiver to bypass minimum. Whether it's a typo (I hope) or not, it's a silly rule if they're not going to enforce it. It's like having a law saying you can't do something ... unless you ask nicely.

This reminds me of all those environmental laws that the Bush administration says should be "voluntary."

[G-Fafif]

For those who will miss "the old dump," think how the old dump itself feels today.

http://faithandfear.blogharbor.com/blog/_archives/2006/4/6/1865869.html

[Guest ABG]

G-Fafif wrote: For those who will miss "the old dump," think how the old dump itself feels today. http://faithandfear.blogharbor.com/blog/_archives/2006/4/6/1865869.html

OUTSTANDING.

[Sandgnat]

Is there any chance that the escalators will actually work all the way to the upper deck in this new stadium?

[DocTee]

Interesting choices for players to appear at the press conference: I get Beltran, Reyes and Wright, but Anderson Hernandez and Roger Royce Ring?

[Methead]

DISASSEMBLE?

[Guest ScarletKnight41]

Sure Greg - go make me feel guilty for wanting a new stadium....

[Guest Iubitul]

Shea is a dump. At Opening Day last year, it was filthy. the escalators didn't work. Basically an eyesore. It was then that I stopped saying, "Shea's a dump, but it's our dump". I just started only saying, "Shea's a dump".

Yeah, the old girl is a dump, and she needs to be replaced, but it is a very sad day. When she is demolished after the 2008 season, a large part of each of our childhoods will die with her.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Super hi-res here:

http://www.maurybrown.com/?p=115

[Benjamin Grimm]

If the only thing making it a dump is dirt and escalators, it can be fixed with cleanser and a call to a repairman. Dirt, stopped escalators and leaky pipes isn't an excuse to knock the place down.

[metsmarathon]

"I can try. Give me some bricks! I can wear bricks!"

friggin' brilliant! absolutely friggin brilliant!

[Guest mlbaseballtalk]

Maybe its that I've only been going for the last 21 years, but I don't know sometimes complete change is for the best rather than trying to shine up a "piece of turd"

Maybe I'll feel different the last time I walk out I don't know, or watching the eventual implosion (is that dopey baseball painted wrecking ball that did in Polo Grounds and Ebbetts still around?) that a part of my youth will be gone and nothing left but an imprint and markers in a parking lot.

You know, I kind of compare it to what happened at my ala mater, Fairfield University, the summer I graduated, 1999 (graduation day was the same exact day of our comback against Schilling and the Phillies that afternoon) the University commenced (pun not intended) on construction projects that would leave the campus a mess over the next few years, and neccessitate the move of the basketball team to other facilities.

At first I kind of felt a little sad in a way, thinking that there would come a time when I'd go up and almost not reconigze my own ala mater! Well, last summer I went back for my 5 year reunion, and I saw the work that was done to "moderninze" several of the buildings including the library, dorms, campus center and other facilities, and I even made a trip to the arena in Bridgeport, Arena At Harbor Yard, where the Stags currently play.

And to tell you the truth, walking through the new buildings, seeing new, 21st century office spaces for various clubs, radio station, student government and newspapers (where 5 years previous looked like they were stuck in a perpetual time warp back in 1970) I felt a sense of, well joy I would say.

The evolution of something that could not be done if it was just redressing or touching up something here and there.

Again, maybe its just the youth in me saying this, maybe I have a little coldness in me, wanting the memories to be storied only in the mind and whatever audio, video and print records and archives, and maybe I really don't mind telling my nephew "This space we are parked in? Is right about where the stage was when the Beatles played here in 1965" rather than pointing behind 2B from the stands. But that is my take on the whole thing.

Steve

[soupcan]

Personally I'm more worried about increased ticket prices and seat availability.

[Guest Edgy DC]

It's not a "piece of turd" either. It's like if we say stuff like that we can get ourselves worked up enough to believe it.

I don't like outfields without foul terriotry.

And I don't like that, after I've mocked the Yankees park for having an internal elevated walking plaza, that the park is going ot have one also.

Check out the incredibly bored looking generic (but professionaly looking, and, of course, overwhelmingly white) pedestrians they've photoshopped Mets jerseys onto.

]The evolution of something that could not be done if it was just redressing or touching up something here and there.

I don't believe this either.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Purple shirt: Four hundred bucks for those forged tickets: Dude, you rock!

Blue Jean Beer Drinker: Matsui sucks!!!

Long-sleeves under Met Jersey: What am I dong wrong? I figured chicks would be lining up by now mistaking me for David Wright...

Billy Wagner Family: They were sold out, but fortunately a gentleman in a purple shirt had extras he sold me!

[Guest Iubitul]

soupcan wrote: Personally I'm more worried about increased ticket prices and seat availability.

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!

That's exactly why they are making a smaller stadium - Increased demand to jack up ticket prices....

[Guest mlbaseballtalk]

Edgy DC wrote: It's not a "piece of turd" either. It's like if we say stuff like that we can get ourselves worked up enough to believe it. ]The evolution of something that could not be done if it was just redressing or touching up something here and there. I don't believe this either.

Cold hard truth right here:

-Shea has been for several decades now considered the worse ballpark by players, media and fans in all of sports, not just baseball. It is not a "cherrished" ground that should be preserverd by conversationalists or other groups

-To that point, Shea IS the template that led to other monolithic football/baseball stadiums, or as they were all considered blights, accross America during the 70's, most have FINALLY seen their demise (Riverfront, Three Rivers, Busch II, Vet in Philly, Fulton County in Atlanta, ect)

-Difference between Shea and Dodger besides Dodger Stadium being a baseball-only stadium is that Flushing Meadows is a dump. An industrial area in the Northeast that is bordering air fields and a harbor. Not to mention Shea IS built on a land fill! What do you think will happen to a structure after 40+ years? Chavez Ravine? Great weather 365/7, scenic atmosphere, thats a recipe for a ballpark lasting generations.

-Shea again was built during an industrial time that wasn't looking for long-term outlooks. This is not a quaint, elegant designed structure built a century ago, this is a building that was built with the "because we can" mentailty of post-WWII "master builders" specifically one named Robert Moses. That alone should tell you that Shea wasn't meant to stand for "A Thousand Years" Moses was a tinkerer. If he thought Shea should have been redone in 74 and something bigger, grander, more monolithic, put in its place, he would have done it.

In other words, Shea Stadium has been living on borrowed time for quite a while, time to change with the times and do away with an eyesore that is a symbol of a failed concept and that is hated by the general community.

Bottom line.
Steve

[Benjamin Grimm]

mlbaseballtalk wrote: -To that point, Shea IS the template that led to other monolithic football/baseball stadiums, or as they were all considered blights, accross America during the 70's, most have FINALLY seen their demise (Riverfront, Three Rivers, Busch II, Vet in Philly, Fulton County in Atlanta, ect)

And that's one of my arguments for keeping it. If Shea were to continue in use for another forty years, it would be every bit as quaint and charming as Wrigley Field. I'm sure Wrigley went through a period when it was considered horribly old fashioned, with obstructed view seats, no modern amenities, etc. It's that mode of thinking that caused Crosley Field, Forbes Field, Shibe Park, Ebbets Field, and many other parks to be torn down. Wrigley and Fenway survived that period, and they're now beloved.

The same would happen to Shea. All types of architecture go through an unloved, tear-it-down period in which many examples are torn down. There were actually people who wanted to tear down the Brooklyn Bridge and Independence Hall in the past because the structures were old and ugly.

[Guest Edgy DC]

]-Shea has been for several decades now considered the worse ballpark by players, media and fans in all of sports, not just baseball. It is not a "cherrished" ground that should be preserverd by conversationalists or other groups

I'm aware that Shea is upopular. Please show the data.for the cold hard truth of "Shea has been for several decades now considered the worse ballpark by players, media and fans in all of sports, not just baseball." I don't know who you're quoting in cliaming that Shea is a "'cherrished' [sic] ground that should be preserverd by conversationalists.

]-To that point, Shea IS the template that led to other monolithic football/baseball stadiums, or as they were all considered blights, accross America during the 70's, most have FINALLY seen their demise (Riverfront, Three Rivers, Busch II, Vet in Philly, Fulton County in Atlanta, ect)

They are not the issue, and I'd rather they weren't dragged into it.

]-Difference between Shea and Dodger besides Dodger Stadium being a baseball-only stadium is that Flushing Meadows is a dump. An industrial area in the Northeast that is bordering air fields and a harbor. Not to mention Shea IS built on a land fill! What do you think will happen to a structure after 40+ years? Chavez Ravine? Great weather 365/7, scenic atmosphere, thats a recipe for a ballpark lasting generations.

Dodger Stadium is, also, definitely not the issue.

Shea is not a dump. A dump is where you dump stuff. This is a metaphor, not a cold hard truth.

]Shea again was built during an industrial time that wasn't looking for long-term outlooks. This is not a quaint, elegant designed structure built a century ago, this is a building that was built with the "because we can" mentailty of post-WWII "master builders" specifically one named Robert Moses. That alone should tell you that Shea wasn't meant to stand for "A Thousand Years" Moses was a tinkerer. If he thought Shea should have been redone in 74 and something bigger, grander, more monolithic, put in its place, he would have done it.

A lack of quantness is not a death-sentence. The presence of quaintness is not a pardon from a death sentence. Much suppossed quaintness in ballparks is absolutely faux crap that willl get it tagged as a dump within a generation, at which point another ill-advised movement will be afoot to rob the public coffers.

Quaintness is also not the issue.

Shea was also built in conjunction with a futurist World's Fair, that gave it's architecture a future-modern excitement, at least by intention. This cold hard fact, though representative of a deluded --- though optimistic --- view of history and industry, makes Shea a rather important relic of history.

]In other words, Shea Stadium has been living on borrowed time for quite a while, time to change with the times and do away with an eyesore that is a symbol of a failed concept and that is hated by the general community.

Eyesore --- that's a legitimate issue. But what indeed do you think makes it an eyesore? Can these things be fixed or improved. That's what we should be arguing about.

I think brick buildings are lovely, but a brickface façade on a non-brick building that is borrowed from a building representing a community ballpark on a city street corner is nothing but a false quaintness that is an aesthetic annoyance that allows people to live the lie that neightborhoods and downtowns and cultural niches are flourishing in our cities, when it's Walmart and Disney making everything the same, destroying cultural variation, and making us vulnerable to cultural viriuses like, um, Christina Aguilera.

I've said too much.

]Bottom line.

Opinions are fine. Too many of them are masquerading as fact though.

[Guest mlbaseballtalk]

Iubitul wrote: ="soupcan"]Personally I'm more worried about increased ticket prices and seat availability. Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner! That's exactly why they are making a smaller stadium - Increased demand to jack up ticket prices....

Not just hike in ticket prices, concession prices, parking prices, and prices in general, but more expensive luxury boxes come with less seating as well! Thats where the real Ding! Ding! Ding! KA-CHING! is coming from

[Guest mlbaseballtalk]

Yancy Street Gang wrote: Brooklyn Bridge and Independence Hall in the past because the structures were old and ugly.

We are talking about a ballpark though. Something only a small segment of the society (okay not THAT small, but it is a segment) uses and/or wants

Not a place where this country's very history was forged, and not a structure meant for use by everyone who travels through New York.

And I'll give you the bridge considering that it has withstood the test of time while bridges constructed during the Moses expansion era are detoriating rapidly, leaving more congestion and roadwork that seems to never be completed all over the 5 boroughs and Westchester