All Purpose Schaefer Discussion Thread

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

I think, in theory, it's a good idea, but in practice the difficulty it would cause me would outweigh the benefits, which I think would be slight.

We don't get that many dramatic outliers, but let's look at the most recent case, where one voter gave Glavine only 1 point for a strong 8-inning outing:

Name	Total Points	Points Awarded	Player Performance
Tom Glavine	136.67	5.26	(L) 8.0 IP, 4 H, 1 ER, 0 BB, 5 SO.
Chris Woodward	22.05	0.85	1-4, RBI.
Aaron Heilman	19.50	0.75	1.0 IP, 0 H, 0 ER, 0 BB, 0 SO.
Jos� Reyes	16.43	0.63	1-4, R, 2B, SO.
Ramon Castro	10.80	0.42	1-3, 2 SO.

There were 26 voters, and Glavine got a 5.26 (136.67 divided by 26). If we threw out the 1, as well as one of his 6's, his total would be 129.67 divided by 24, which would be a 5.40. If we just threw out the 1, his score would have been 5.43.

The difference of about 0.14 is not insignificant, but since it's probably the largest we'll see, and it's a rare case, I don't see that it's worth the extra trouble, which would be considerable.

And to Namor's other point, the bizarre fractions don't really have any impact at all. If people want to vote that way, it really has little effect, either on the results or on my tallying effort. The magic spreadsheet can handle the extra decimals. So, although I may be sometimes puzzled by the precision of some of the votes, I have no beef with it.

[Theoldmole]

Also, it's an arguable point, albeit not very arguable -- you don't give a pitcher a top score unless he wins the game. I would disagree, but I would also argue that you can't tell people what to think.

I would also argue...lighten up. There's no salary or incentive bonus involved here.

[Guest ScarletKnight41]

Yancy - may I make a request? When you post the box score in the POTG thread, could you set it up to open in a new window? That would make it easier for me to consult with the box score while typing my vote. Also, I could open the box score, keep on browsing the pool, and then go back to considering my vote when I'm done with whatever else I'm doing.

Thanks.

[Willets Point]

Scarlett, you may also do that yourself by right-clicking on the link and selecting "Open Link in New Window."

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Good point, Scarlett. I'll try to remember. (For anyone else starting a poll, the way to make sure this happens is to include target=_new in the HTML tag.)

Meanwhile, voting for the remaining games of the series in San Diego will close on Tuesday afternoon:

• Friday (the 14-inning loss)
• Saturday (Pedro's win)
• Sunday (Zambrano's loss)

And the opening game of the series, Thursday night's win, will close later today.

[Guest ScarletKnight41]

Willets - thanks. That's good to know.

Yancy - thanks. In the precaffienated state, I might not remember to right-click. I appreciate it.

When I put in links, I just use the BBCode, which automatically opens links in new windows.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

After the San Diego series has been closed and tallied, I'll post the month-to-date totals here. For those who can't wait for these periodic updates, the totals are always viewable at http://potg.ultimatemets.com.

[Guest GYC]

Was there ever an official "ruling" in the LoDuca vs. Lo Duca? I still don't know what to use and vary it, afraid that I'm making things difficult for Yancy.

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

The other advantage, not addressed by Yancy, in eliminating outliers is the discouragement of loopy voting.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

GYC wrote: Was there ever an official "ruling" in the LoDuca vs. Lo Duca? I still don't know what to use and vary it, afraid that I'm making things difficult for Yancy.

I've found that it doesn't matter. Thanks for asking!

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Month-to-date totals for April 2006
Through game of April 23, 2006

Rank	Name	Points
1	Carlos Delgado	18.29
2	Tom Glavine	15.95
3	David Wright	15.40
4	Pedro Martinez	13.77
5	Xavier Nady	12.57
6	Brian Bannister	10.45
7	Carlos Beltran	9.86
8	Jos� Reyes	8.41
9	Duaner Sanchez	7.80
10	Steve Trachsel	6.29
11	Paul Lo Duca	5.74
12	Billy Wagner	5.73
13	Aaron Heilman	4.61
14	Cliff Floyd	3.89
15	Chris Woodward	3.26
16	Ramon Castro	2.86
17	Pedro Feliciano	2.49
18	Darren Oliver	2.31
19	Jorge Julio	2.19
20	Julio Franco	2.15
21	Endy Chavez	1.92
22	Chad Bradford	1.50
23	Kaz Matsui	1.39
24	Anderson Hernandez	0.57
25	Victor Zambrano	0.42
26	Victor Diaz	0.32

[metsmarathon]

so, i'm curious for all those out there with the ultra-precise schaeffer votes, how y'all come up with such numbers?

is it based on some overcomplicated formula (man, i love overcomplicated formulae), or just a seat of the pants kind of thing, evening out the percieved contribution on a day-by-day basis?

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

metsmarathon wrote: so, i'm curious for all those out there with the ultra-precise schaeffer votes, how y'all come up with such numbers? is it based on some overcomplicated formula (man, i love overcomplicated formulae), or just a seat of the pants kind of thing, evening out the percieved contribution on a day-by-day basis?

I found that, once I got past the fourth decimal point, I was starting to guess.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Before I give out any points, I type the contributor's names in descending order of their Schaefer thirst. Then I try and assign points downward without counting.

Then I count, and that usually helps determine the ballpark for the top 2-4 scorers. Then I give them a solid value and divide the remaining points by the remaining guys, usually ending in a 7-digit fraction. Then I adjust up or down to get to 2 digits.

It's all very scientific.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

KC, I had to blank out your votes for the April 26 game. Sorry about that, but you apparently accidentally pasted votes from a different game. Your votes for Bannister's game matched your votes for Trachsel's game, including your votes for Trachsel!

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Oh, and a thank you to metsmarathon for pointing it out!

[Centerfield]

Castro getting no love from some Schaefer voters despite 3 hits, 2 runs scored, and sparking the GW rally.

[Elster88]

Someone please explain to me how a pitcher earns 6 if he pitches 7 shut out innings? What do you give him for a complete game? Or a no-hitter?

[Guest ScarletKnight41]

From my perspective, 7 scoreless innings against the Braves at Turner Field in a game with virtually no Mets offense is worth 6 points. He was tremendous on a night where nobody else particularly shined.

[Elster88]

What is 9 scoreless innings against the Braves at Turner Field in a game with virtually no Mets offense worth?

What is 9 scoreless innings of no-hit ball against the Braves at Turner Field in a game with virtually no Mets offense worth?

[Guest ScarletKnight41]

6 points. That's the max that any one player can earn per game.

When the starting pitcher does his job and there is no offense, he is likely to get 6 points from me. OTOH, Glavine could throw a no-hitter, but if the Mets offense exploded with 10 runs, I might only award him 3 or 4 points.

Schaeffer scoring isn't solely based on absolute performance. Relative performance also comes into play.

[Elster88]

So, all else being equal, 7 innings of shutout ball is the same as 9 innings is the same as a no-hitter?

Do you all agree on this? Am I the oddball here?

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

No you're right.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Elster88 wrote: So, all else being equal, 7 innings of shutout ball is the same as 9 innings is the same as a no-hitter? Do you all agree on this? Am I the oddball here?

If you're the dominant star of the game, you should be eligible for a 6.

You can argue that you need to pitch a perfect game to get a 6, but then what do you do for the guy who pitches a perfect game and hits three home runs?

I don't see that there's a minimum threshold to get a 6. I didn't give Glavine 6 points for his seven scoreless innings, but I have no gripe with those who did.

[Elster88]

No griping here. The average takes care of such things. Just curiosity. And astonishment.

[Guest ScarletKnight41]

You astonish pretty easily, I guess.

[Centerfield]

I'm with Yancy. That's how I vote.

[Willets Point]

Me too.

[Guest ScarletKnight41]

I couldn't give Reyes any Schaeffer last night. I felt that his baserunning blunder (getting picked off trying to stretch a double into a triple) outweighed his 9th inning single.

[nymr83]

ScarletKnight41 wrote: I couldn't give Reyes any Schaeffer last night. I felt that his baserunning blunder (getting picked off trying to stretch a double into a triple) outweighed his 9th inning single.

its not only that he was "trying to strech it" its that he didnt bust his ass out of the box because he thought it would be caught.