Al Leiter Retires.

[Zvon]

Aww.
Im gonna miss seeing him pitch.
I knew he was pretty much done but I thought he'd squeeze in another season in 2006.

What I remember most about Al is his intensity.

And he was just as intense when he talked baseball.
I saw him on Tim McCarvers talk show.
Him, Tim and Jim Kaat were talking baseball.
And Al was so intense, and said some very interesting things.
One thing that comes to mind is he said hitters today have an unfair advantage over pitchers and hitters or yesteryear because of all the armor they are allowed to wear, specifically the arm guard.
He said thats why you see batters hanging over the plate with no fear of the inside pitch. He said its unfair and gives batters a huge edge that he feels they shouldnt have. And he was so intense about it.

Hope he stays involved with the game on some level.

[Guest KC]

I don't know what made me think I could slip a Al Leiter is way over-ranked
fastball past this crew.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Al was great, and a great Met, despite whether or not he conspired to overthrow Valentine or became too important in the eyes of the Wilpons or whatever other crap he may have been guilty of.

Back in like, 99 and 2000, throwing so hard he made audible grunts with every pitch, making weird faces, getting all awkward whenever a ball was hit to him, knocking all those bats out of the hands of RH hittters... A memorable and oftentimes historic Met. Good guy.

[Guest ScarletKnight41]

MK always grew up admiring Al Leiter, a left-handed pitcher from New Jersey who grew up rooting for the Mets. And Alois has always been very good about signing autographs for MK and his siblings.

Thus, I will simply wish him a happy retirement with his family.

[Willets Point]

I'm dissapointed that during Leiter's appearance in the WBC that the announcers did not inform me this could be his last appearance.

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

I have no problem with washed up veterans trying to eke out a few more years of ML salaries. I do have problems with teams that twist themselves into pretzels agreeing with that argument, and with sentimental fans deceiving themselves into thinking that a guy can pitch in '04 because of how he pitched in '99. Judge how Leiter pitches by what you see on the field, and what the stat sheet says, and not the bullcrap he spouts in interviews.

I'll never forget how, in some post-season TV commentary, Leiter justified going to a full count on every batter, arguing that "going after" batters, pitching aggressively, challenging them, throwing strikes is not good baseball.

[Elster88]

]Leiter justified going to a full count on every batter, arguing that "going after" batters, pitching aggressively, challenging them, throwing strikes is not good baseball.

I think I remember what you're talking about:

What I'm remembering is he said something like:

"Now that he's got him 0-2, he has 3 pitches to try to fool him with before he has to throw another strike."

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

IIRC, I wrote that quote here when it happened, obviously to share with the rest of you how Leiter thought about the particular situation.

Bret has used that comment ever since to build a case against "Met stupidity."

[Elster88]

Probably lost in the old CPF?

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

I'm sure. It was the 2003 or maybe 2002 playoffs when he served as a guest analyst. You pretty much remembered the gist of what he said; which was obviously was said in the context of a particular situation and wasn't the answer to the question: Describe your entire philosophy of pitching.

[Elster88]

]I'm sure. It was the 2003 or maybe 2002 playoffs when he served as a guest analyst. You pretty much remembered the gist of what he said; which was obviously was said in the context of a particular situation and wasn't the answer to the question: Describe your entire philosophy of pitching.

Haha yup.

I was thinking '04.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Unmentinoed in this thread: Leiter's engineering of the Kazmir/Zambrano deal because Kazmir snottily changed the clubhouse music in spring training.

[seawolf17]

Edgy DC wrote: Unmentinoed in this thread: Leiter's engineering of the Kazmir/Zambrano deal because Kazmir snottily changed the clubhouse music in spring training.

I thought Kazmir smacked up someone's car. Or was that Justin Huber?

[Guest Edgy DC]

No, Kazzy appparently wrecked a car.

[Guest KC]

The Mets have people plant those stories on internet boards and feed 'em
to the newspapers to distract attention away from the real powers that be
who are making poor decision after another. If some of you would pull your
god damn lips off the kool-aid baba nipple for five seconds you'd wake up
and see what's really going down right under your collective noses.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Yuck. I'd hate to have a collective nose. I'd probably be constantly sneezing.

[seawolf17]

Or, worse, collective noses, as in more than one. That would require a lot of tissues.

[Guest Edgy DC]

]Derek Jeter and Al Leiter, who played with Roger Clemens on Team USA, said they talked to him about rejoining the Yankees. Jeter, for one, says he is convinced Clemens will not retire. --- The New York Times

[seawolf17]

="Edgy DC"] ]Derek Jeter and Al Leiter, who played with Roger Clemens on Team USA, said they talked to him about rejoining the Yankees. Jeter, for one, says he is convinced Clemens will not retire. --- The New York Times

Hmm....

[metirish]

I would consider my position as a Mets fan if Clemens joined the team, still if it was a one time deal and he helped win a WS I could live with that....."thanks Rajah, now fuck off you prick"

[Guest rpackrat]

KC,

Your avatar is giving me a headache!

[nymr83]

="KC"]We have to re-rank every Mets season, there's no way Al Leiter was the 12th best Met player ever.

Seaver, Koosman, Gooden, Strawberry, Piazza, Hernandez, Carter, Kranepool, Agee...that all the guys who are to me clearly better off the top of my head. I'm sure there are a couple i'm missing and a good 5-10 more who are arguable but i don't think 12th is wildly off

[nymr83]

KC wrote: The Mets have people plant those stories on internet boards and feed 'em to the newspapers to distract attention away from the real powers that be who are making poor decision after another. If some of you would pull your god damn lips off the kool-aid baba nipple for five seconds you'd wake up and see what's really going down right under your collective noses.

Bret, i'm pretty sure logging into other peoples' accounts should be a bannable offense!

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

I'm sure he wasn't philosophizing about pitching in general,but I'm even surer that he wasn't describing the pitcher/batter match up at hand either. Much more like a "What should he do now that he's got him 0-2, Al?" I was, and am, appalled at his answer, which was plainly his own practice late in his career.

[nymr83]

otoh i'd have to say theres no excuse for giving the batter a hittable pitch on an 0-2 count because you have 3 more pitches to work with after that. the 1-2 pitch should be near the zone (an attempt to cut a corner might be a good idea here) the 2-2 pitch should be "normal."

[Guest mlbaseballtalk]

KC wrote: The Mets have people plant those stories on internet boards and feed 'em to the newspapers to distract attention away from the real powers that be who are making poor decision after another. If some of you would pull your god damn lips off the kool-aid baba nipple for five seconds you'd wake up and see what's really going down right under your collective noses.

I love Michael Kay's response whenever someone tries to call Leiter out on this stuff. Basically Kay's response is "You can't win, because people will always say 'well he's obviously lying' "

[Guest Rotblatt]

Bret Sabermetric wrote: I do have problems with teams that twist themselves into pretzels agreeing with that argument, and with sentimental fans deceiving themselves into thinking that a guy can pitch in '04 because of how he pitched in '99. Judge how Leiter pitches by what you see on the field, and what the stat sheet says, and not the bullcrap he spouts in interviews.

I'm assuming you're referring to Leiter's 04 season, which I just don't get. Leiter was tough to watch because he didn't put people away in '04, but his results were undeinable: 173.2 IP, 3.21 ERA, 1.35 WHIP, 6.1 K/9. That's a 133 ERA+.

I'd be estatic if any one of our 2-5 pitchers managed that this year.

Now, I'd be the first to say that his peripherals were troubling--his 2004 1.27 K/BB was the lowest in a steady, year-by-year decline, and he flat out sucked in August & September. Regardless, he was extremely effective in 2004. The peripherals really just indicated that he wasn't likely to remain that effective. Given that we (wisely) didn't resign him, I don't think Mets fans have any beef with how management handled Leiter during his decline years.

ERA+ (IP) for the Mets by year, starting in 1998:
170 (193 IP), 104 (213 IP), 136 (187.3 IP), 124 (204.3 IP), 112 (180.7 IP), 106 (173.7 IP), 133 (173.7 IP).

That's pretty darn good.

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

He was brutal over the second half, though he was good trade bait the first half. The Mets thought they were headed to the Series in 04, so held on to him. He drove me nuts that year, going full count to every batter, rarely pitching more than six innings, forcing Howe to go to the bullpen too much.

[metirish]

Did anyone really think that the Mets were going to the series in 04?....I didn't and that's not bullshit.

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

Well, if you had Leiter, 38 years old at the end of his contract, a FA at the end of the season, good numbers through July, why else wouldn't you trade him to a contender?