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Fernando Valenzuela 1960-2024

metirish

By metirish
in New York Mets Talk

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Frayed Knot FCL Mets

Frayed Knot

Old-Timey Member
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Yeah, part of his appeal, beyond just the white-hot start and the whole appeal among SoCal/Mexican culture, was watching a guy with a unique and

obviously self-taught style. No textbook windups or cookie cutter mechanics for him.



You figure those early innings had to have taken a toll. After pitching 18 relief innings as a 19 y/o in relief, he logged 25 starts/192 IP during his breakout

rookie season in strike-shortened 1981. But then he went 285, 257, 261, 272, 269, and 251 innings while averaging 35 starts/14 CGs per year.



1987, his age 26 season, turned out to be his last really good one even though he'd hang around for another decade. By then he had pitched for the Angels,

Orioles, Phillies, Padres, and Cardinals as well as two partial seasons back in Mexico.



Was a longtime Spanish language radio announcer for LAD, he stepped away just prior to the playoffs for 'health reasons'.

Will be touted as an obvious link to the last LAD/NYY WS in 1981 during this year's broadcast.


G-Fafif College Ball

G-Fafif

Old-Timey Member
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I saw him pitch against the Mets twice, almost bookends to his career: at the height of Fernandomania in May of 1981 and as he hung in there as a Padre in May of 1996. To mark it further in time, the starters he opposed were, respectively, Mike Scott and Jason Isringhausen. The '81 start was a happening, drawing almost 40,000 to Shea when 5,000 was the rule. The “magic” moment giveaway, in which some lucky section received 50 bags of peanuts, subbed in tortilla chips. That game, won by L.A. 1-0, was the night Valenzuela's eye roll to the heavens was picked up on by Bill Webb, becoming a trademark of how Fernando would be covered by the cameras.



During that stint in '86 when Gary Carter was confined to the DL and therefore driving everybody crazy in the Met dugout, Channel 9 invited Kid into the booth for a few innings in L.A. to comment on another Valenzuela start, one the Mets won. Gary called Fernando “Freddie,” which took Tim and Steve by surprise. Yeah, Gary said, that's what the players call him. Along with the brilliant rookie campaign and the gutty World Series outing and the no-hitter on the same night as Dave Stewart and the marquee matchups with Doc and the stealth longevity, I always think of that when I think of Valenzuela.


Frayed Knot FCL Mets

Frayed Knot

Old-Timey Member
Posted
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... the marquee matchups with Doc


This is the one I'll always think of: https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/LAN/LAN198509060.shtmlhttps://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/LAN/LAN198509060.shtml

I was at a wedding reception that night but kept making stealth trips to the parking lot trying to keep up on the game via car radio late into the night.

Check out those pitching lines!! Gooden was 20 y/o, 'Freddie' (Keith mentioned that moniker as welling IF AT FIRST) was 24


stevejrogers College Ball

stevejrogers

Old-Timey Member
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MLBS (I'm pretty sure) Erik Sherman's Daybreak At Chavez Ravine is a great read, or listen as I did, for a great overview of Fernando's life and career. Focusing of course on the Dodgers' efforts to gain the adoration of the Latin American communities that hated them ever since communities were displaced due to the construction of Dodger Stadium.



Sherman also advocates for Valenzuela to eventually be inshrined in Cooperstown on the basis of it. As well as getting #34 officially retired in LA.



Considering the famed Dodger “rules” and considering how private Valenzeula (he refused to participate in Sherman's project) was, as it wasn't until recently that the public knew he was sick, now I'm curious as to the timing of the 2023 number retirement. In terms of “oh, we better do the Jim Gilliam Exception for him while he's still alive and able to enjoy the moment”


Edgy MD FCL Mets

Edgy MD

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Despite his hefty physique, he was a terrific athlete, who could hit, run, and field with grace. In emergencies, the Dodgers used him in left and right and at first. I think he got opportunities to pinch-run and pinch-hit too.



His family was part of his story. It was supposedly a baseball-crazy clan in which his older brothers recognized early that he was the true talent, and they took it upon themselves to carefully portion out how much they'd allow him to pitch. Tommy Lasorda had no such scruples and, even in his rookie year, h was showing signs over over-work. As noted, he was driven into the ground by 26. The screwball is a brutal pitch on the arm for a reliever. For a starter logging 250+ innings per season, it was crippling.



You'd think he was MLB's first Mexican-born player the way his story exploded onto the scene, but he was immediately a national phenomenon in a sport known for regional followings. His tale and Vin Scully as the tale-teller were just too irresistible a take on the American dream, and while much of it was undoubtedly mythologized, a big part of him felt true.



Great hair, too.



Also, when the Mets traded middle reliever Carlos Diaz and utility infielder Bob Bailor for Sid Fernandez after only six September Dodger innings for El Sid in 1983, it felt like we were getting Fernandomania II on the cheap, and we kind of did.


stevejrogers College Ball

stevejrogers

Old-Timey Member
Posted
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Edgy MD wrote:
Tommy Lasorda had no such scruples and even in his rookie year was showing signs over over-work. As noted, he was driven into the ground by 26. The screwball is a brutal pitch on the arm for a reliever. For a starter logging 250+ innings per season, it was crippling.


Its why we, nor the A's faced him in the 1988 postseason. Shut down in August. Oddly the guy he essentially replaced as the Dodger Ace, Don Sutton returned for one last ride as a Dodger that year, but was also gone by August.



Eerily similar to the 2024 run where the Dodgers beat the Mets in the NLCS without Ace Clayton Kershaw, though there is no Orel Hershiser like stud that had a breakout regular season that continued in the postseason this year.


Frayed Knot FCL Mets

Frayed Knot

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted


Edgy MD wrote:

Despite his hefty physique, he was a terrific athlete, who could hit, run, and field with grace. In emergencies, the Dodgers used him in left and right and at first. I think he got opportunities to pinch-run and pinch-hit too.


Faced Nolan Ryan as a hitter 11 times, didn't strike out once.

OK he had just a single in nine ABs plus two sacs but still, how many hitters can make a no-K claim?*





* the most ABs with single digit Ks is (shocker!) Tony Gwynn; 9 in 63 ABs

- to get under five Ks we find Gene Richards with 3 in 40 AB

- Glenn Backert, with 24 career ABs, is the first to call UNO!

- and Tommy Helms at 13 ABs is king of the no-K club vs Ryan

- Carlos Baerga and Juan Bonilla are next with 10, before we get to F.V. at 9


Centerfield First Round Pick

Centerfield

Old-Timey Member
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I have absolutely no memory of Valenzuela pitching in the 1990s, much less 1997. I think I would have lost a significant amount of money if someone made me bet.


whippoorwill Draft Eligible

whippoorwill

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted


He was a fun addition to MLB.



Can you hear the guns Fernando comes to mind when he got shelled in a game which was rare. Very good pitcher.



I remember a Fernando/Fernandez game which was a classic big dark haired guys with similar names who struck out a lot of guys game.

I think Sid won but I'm not sure.


stevejrogers College Ball

stevejrogers

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted



He was a fun addition to MLB.



Can you hear the guns Fernando comes to mind when he got shelled in a game which was rare. Very good pitcher.



I remember a Fernando/Fernandez game which was a classic big dark haired guys with similar names who struck out a lot of guys game.

I think Sid won but I'm not sure.


B-R is showing me two matchups



August 15th 1984 3-2 Met win in LA

https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/LAN/LAN198408150.shtmlhttps://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/LAN/LAN198408150.shtml



May 29th 1986 5-2 Met win at Shea

https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/NYN/NYN198605290.shtmlhttps://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/NYN/NYN198605290.shtml


Edgy MD FCL Mets

Edgy MD

Site Manager
Posted
Posted


After just a few MLB starts had triggered Fernandomania, Ralph Kiner (I think) asked Mets catcher Alex Treviño if he had faced Valenzuela when the two were teenagers in Mexico. Treviño replied — to the best of my memory — that even though he was two years older than Fernando, he couldn't touch his stuff with his bat.



"So, you think he's going to win Rookie of the Year?" Ralph asked.



"No, I think he's going win Rookie of the Year, Cy Young, MVP, and whatever else there is," Treviño answered.



(Waiting for G-FaFiF to set me straight on the details of this account.)


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