Yay Pete, He's an All-Star

[G-Fafif]

Pete Alonso is the lone Met on the 2023 NL All-Star team.

[metirish]

Congratulations to Pete , HR Derby too

[Frayed Knot]

The ESPN crew mentioned Pete in the HR Derby so often last night that you'd think they televise that event or something.

Quite a coincidence also that they chose him to be their in-game interview giving him a platform for his 'surprise' announcement.

[metirish]

Right, and the very awkward high fives from Eduardo Perez to Cone and Karl , cringe

[Johnny Lunchbucket]

If I'm honest Zimmo was the better All-Star choice

[Edgy MD]

It's not the distinction you aim for, but Nimmo's got a real chance to pass Mookie Wilson as the all-time most-accomplished Met to never represent the team as an All-Star.

[vtmet7]

well someone's gotta represent...although a first base man hitting .221 feels a little like a Dave Kingman representation this year...

[vtmet7]

Edgy MD wrote: It's not the distinction you aim for, but Nimmo's got a real chance to pass Mookie Wilson as the all-time most-accomplished Met to never represent the team as an All-Star.

how many non-power hitting outfielders are on a pace for 170 strikeouts in a season?

[Edgy MD]

Is that a rhetorical question?

[vtmet7]

Edgy MD wrote: Is that a rhetorical question?

It was more a comment of why he's not an all star...the Mets fans may love his taking a ton of pitches, but I don't think that a guy that strikes out a ton is as valuable as we might be led to believe vs other OFers that put up better numbers...OF is a very crowded position for all star selection, he might be able to do it as an infielder or a catcher (which is technically an infielder as well) but the competition is pretty fierce for those OF spots



by comparison, Jose Ramirez is on a pace of 70 strikeouts (while on a pace for 78 walks)...has a .506 slugging percentage and an .867 OPS...and plays third base...so obviously he's an all star...

[Edgy MD]

Edgy MD wrote: Is that a rhetorical question? It was more a comment of why he's not an all star...

So, then, yeah, it was a rhetorical question. And you weren't looking for an answer at all.



If you mean to imply that Brandon Nimmo is in that theoretical group, as you certainly seem to, he's neither on a pace to strike out 170 times nor is he a "non-power hitter," so he certainly isn't in that group at all.



Your comments about what "Met fans love" is just a straw-man argument.

[vtmet7]

he has 85 strikeouts at the half way point of the season...35 of those came in June...so 85 times 2 is 170...and if you go by "trends" instead of "pace", and his June "trend" continues, he could easily eclipse 170...



However, after looking at the NL roster, it does seem like Lourdes Gurriel and Nick Castallanos are a bit of a stretch getting nods over Nimmo...neither one is overly impressive either with their stats; but I guess that you need a token Philly and the D'backs are tied for the 3rd best record in the Majors, so that probably gave Gurriel a bump...



and according to fangraphs, Pete is tied for the 6th best first baseman even with all his HRs...

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=1b&stats=bat&lg=nl&qual=y&type=8&season=2023&month=0&season1=2023&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2023-01-01&enddate=2023-12-31https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=1b&stats=bat≶=nl&qual=y&type=8&season=2023&month=0&season1=2023&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2023-01-01&enddate=2023-12-31

Edited July 3, 2023 by Guest

[Edgy MD]

We're not at the half-way point of the season.



As for "go by 'trends' instead of 'pace'," pace was your term, not mine. I'm not sure why those terms are even in quotes.



I'm also not sure how many false characterizations we have to sort through here, or why your question/not-a-question/comment was directed at me at all. I didn't endorse the guy for the All-Star Team in the post you chose to quote. I, in fact, didn't endorse him for it at all. Lunchbucket did (somewhat tepidly, in fact). And he endorsed him over Alonso, not over José Ramirez.

[vtmet7]

I wasn't directing anything towards you...apologies if by quoting the mention of Nimmo not making the all stars made it appear that way...



I also don't understand why when I have an opinion, you call it many false characterizations to sort thru here (yeah, I know I will probably get chastised for not spelling through correctly, as well)...lately I've had a few things that I have posted, that IMO felt like harmless comments that you have ripped me for...if you don't want me posting, then I won't...



I find the offensive strategy of this team very frustrating: take pitches and swing for the fences without much in between...

[Edgy MD]

You explicitly directed your comments at me, but you feel "ripped" if I respond?



I called your characterizations false because they were false. Nimmo is not a "non-power hitter" by any fair measure. A pace for 163.92 strikeouts may be close to 170, but it isn't 170. It's just not true. Changing your measure from "pace" to "trend" after the fact is just moving the goalposts. Nor does it in any way (at all) dispute the (rather anodyne) notion that Nimmo may be approaching the dubious honor of being the best Met player to never achieve an All-Star Selection. I hoped that was a thoughtful observation, but if you want to dispute it, I'd be happy to read somebody writing that this status doesn't belong to Mookie Wilson at all, but to John Olerud or Craig Swan.



But instead you use my post as an excuse to grind an axe against Brandon Nimmo and against what Met fans "love." You don't see where that's at least a little obnoxious?

[batmagadanleadoff]

I think that the issue here is that every team must be represented at the ASG. Otherwise, the Mets probably wouldn't have a selection at all this year, especially when an All-Star is determined almost entirely by performance over the first half of the season in question.



I also think that Nimmo's having a better season than Alonso. Pete's 20+ HR's are awesome but he's making way too many damn outs. Rate-wise, though, no Met has been better than Pham, so far.

[Marshmallowmilkshake]

Nimmo might still make it. There are usually a number of guys who beg off due to injury.



Pete's an elite power hitter and a derby fave, so I can see him getting the nod.



I love the All-Star Game.

[Marshmallowmilkshake]

=Marshmallowmilkshake post_id=130756 time=1688473133 user_id=119]
Nimmo might still make it. There are usually a number of guys who beg off due to injury.



Pete's an elite power hitter and a derby fave, so I can see him getting the nod. I think Lindor is better than the Braves shortstop who is starting.



I love the All-Star Game.

Edited July 4, 2023 by Guest

[Edgy MD]

I think that the issue here is that every team must be represented at the ASG.

Unintentionally so, perhaps, but yes, of course that's the issue. The question raised is a simple one of whether Nimmo is having a better overall season than Alonso, with the implicit understanding that each team gets at least one All-Star, whether he is having a better season than other players around the league or not.



Fun Fact: While we've seen some lovely plays by Brandon Nimmo in centerfield this year, https://fieldingbible.com/DRSLeaderboardThe Fielding Bible's numbers don't reflect well on him at all. So that's worth scratching at.

[G-Fafif]

A salute of sorts to the worthy (or worthy-ish) Mets who never made an All-Star team as Mets, for those who like to http://www.faithandfearinflushing.com/2023/07/04/all-the-stars-that-never-were/read, or those who like to https://www.podpage.com/national-league-town/second-chance-all-star-team/listen…or both!

[stevejrogers]

Lindor is starting to stake a claim for at least the best Metly years as a SS without being named to an All-Star team, yet.

[Edgy MD]

Not a lot of great options at catcher. Pretty much, when a Met catcher has deserved to be an All-Star, he's been an All-Star, and perhaps once or twice when he didn't quite deserve it.



Most of the other categories were hard has heck, though. I've long been trumpeting how good Clendenon's 1970 is, for instance, but how does one deny a chance to give Olerud's 1998 its due?



FIRST BASE

__DONN CLENDENON, 1970

__IKE DAVIS, 2010

__CARLOS DELGADO, 2006

__JOHN MILNER, 1974

_X_JOHN OLERUD, 1998



SECOND BASE

__WALLY BACKMAN 1986

__DOUG FLYNN, 1980

__GREGG JEFFERIES, 1990

__JEFF KENT, 1994

_X_FELIX MILLAN, 1975



THIRD BASE

_X_HUBIE BROOKS, 1984

__WAYNE GARRETT, 1973

__RAY KNIGHT, 1986

__LENNY RANDLE, 1977

__ROBIN VENTURA, 1999



SHORTSTOP

__ASDRUBAL CABRERA, 2016

__KEVIN ELSTER, 1989

_X_REY ORDOÑEZ, 1999

__RAFAEL SANTANA, 1987

__FRANK TAVERAS, 1979



CATCHER

__JOHN BUCK, 2013

__TRAVIS d'ARNAUD, 2017

__JESSE GONDER, 1964

_X_WILSON RAMOS, 2019

__MACKEY SASSER, 1990



LEFT FIELD

__GEORGE FOSTER, 1984

__CLIFF FLOYD, 2005

_X_BERNARD GILKEY, 1996

__KEVIN McREYNOLDS, 1988

__FRANK THOMAS, 1962



CENTER FIELD

_X_TOMMIE AGEE, 1970

__LENNY DYKSTRA, 1986

__JUAN LAGARES, 2014

__DEL UNSER, 1975

__MOOKIE WILSON, 1982



RIGHT FIELD

__JAY BRUCE, 2017

__JOE CHRISTOPHER, 1964

__CURTIS GRANDERSON, 2015

_X_RUSTY STAUB, 1975

__RON SWOBODA, 1968



ONE EXTRA GUY*

_X_BENNY AGBAYANI, 1999

__ENDY CHAVEZ, 2006

__CARL EVERETT, 1997

__WILMER FLORES, 2016

__ART SHAMSKY, 1970

*Player who's somewhere between a utilityman and an everyday starter



STARTING PITCHER

__MARK BOMBACK, 1980

__GARY GENTRY, 1971

_X_TERRY LEACH, 1987

__BOBBY OJEDA, 1986

__CRAIG SWAN, 1978



SETUP RELIEVER

__LARRY BEARNARTH, 1964

__DENNIS COOK, 1998

__PEDRO FELICIANO, 2010

_X_DOUG SISK, 1984

__TURK WENDELL, 1999



CLOSER

__NEIL ALLEN, 1980

_X_BOB APODACA, 1975

__BRADEN LOOPER, 2004

__ROGER McDOWELL, 1986

__RANDY MYERS, 1988

[batmagadanleadoff]

Edgy MD wrote: , but how does one deny a chance to give Olerud's 1998 its due?

Because 1998 was smack in the middle of the steroids era and Olerud was competing against cartoonishly beefed-up home run mashers like Bagwell, Galarraga and especially McGwire, who hit 70 HRs that year and dominated the news cycle, along with Sosa. I remember it well. Chicks always did dig the long ball.

[Edgy MD]

Yeah, but in Greg's poll, my vote counts as much as any chick's, and in 1998 https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=1b&stats=bat&lg=nl&qual=y&type=8&season=1998&month=0&season1=1998&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=1998-01-01&enddate=1998-12-31Olerud out-fWARred 'em all, save for McGwire.



He was https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=1b&stats=bat&lg=nl&qual=y&type=3&season=1998&month=0&season1=1998&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=1998-01-01&enddate=1998-12-31#2 in WPA also. If we could factor in 2023-quality defensive metrics, that might well close the gap considerably.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Edgy MD wrote: Yeah, but in Greg's poll, my vote counts as much as any chick's, and in 1998 https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=1b&stats=bat&lg=nl&qual=y&type=8&season=1998&month=0&season1=1998&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=1998-01-01&enddate=1998-12-31Olerud out-fWARred 'em all, save for McGwire. He was https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=1b&stats=bat&lg=nl&qual=y&type=3&season=1998&month=0&season1=1998&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=1998-01-01&enddate=1998-12-31#2 in WPA also. If we could factor in 2023-quality defensive metrics, that might well close the gap considerably.

You're preaching to the choir.

[G-Fafif]

Edgy MD wrote: Yeah, but in Greg's poll, my vote counts as much as any chick's, and in 1998 https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=1b&stats=bat&lg=nl&qual=y&type=8&season=1998&month=0&season1=1998&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=1998-01-01&enddate=1998-12-31Olerud out-fWARred 'em all, save for McGwire. He was https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=1b&stats=bat&lg=nl&qual=y&type=3&season=1998&month=0&season1=1998&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=1998-01-01&enddate=1998-12-31#2 in WPA also. If we could factor in 2023-quality defensive metrics, that might well close the gap considerably.

Thanks for voting! The https://www.podpage.com/national-league-town/second-chance-all-star-team/podcast episode for which the ballot was originally prepared goes deep on each position and candidate, with the just-misseds given their due as well. Listeners also learn which of the Met Stars That Never Were inspired this exercise a mere 48 years ago.

[smg58]

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: If I'm honest Zimmo was the better All-Star choice

You're honest.

[stevejrogers]

Senga added due to Stro pitching tomorrow

[Edgy MD]

Senga would be the Mets' first Asian-born All-Star.



The selection also boosts his Rookie of the Year profile.

[Fman99]

=Marshmallowmilkshake post_id=130756 time=1688473133 user_id=119]
I love the All-Star Game.