Dom the dum-dum

[roger_that]

Actually, he seems bright enough to me, just liked the word play.



A lot of talk of trading him for pitching. Let's examine.



At this point in his career (turning 27 in a few weeks, nearly 1200 MLB at-bats) we know who he is, what he can do, what he can't.



Knowing that is a plus, but a minus too, because other teams know what we know.



So that puts a cap on the quality of pitching you're going to get back for him. Fairly limited.



As stated elsewhere. I strongly oppose trading position players for pitchers, generally, across the board. But in Dom's case, more so. And in his present situation, especially.



His present case being “struggling.” That generally understates the return you'll get for him.



With his track record established as it is now, we know that “struggling” doesn't matter much in the long haul. A reasonable expectation is that he'll start hitting soon. No reason to think otherwise.



Being a lefty, he's limited in the positions he's capable of playing, and practically he's limited even more to LF and IB, which he's played just about equally in the bigs.



As long as Alonso remains healthy, Dom's mostly a LFer. Given the Mets who can do a good job in LF (Canha, and McNeil) that makes him a LFer, DH, and pinch hitter. Low OBP guy, decent SLG guy—you can live with that for a month or two if injuries hit, either at 1B or LF.



He also has one advantage over most left-handed OF-IB guys—he seems to have a reverse platoon thing. So far, and it's far enough to begin to draw conclusions about his capacities, that means he can play everyday if you need him to.



So he's of limited value, but we know what those limits are. And we need a good backup LF-1Ber who can DH respectably and PH.



Everybody does, but you're not going to get a starting pitcher back for him who's a hair better than your best AAA pitcher.



So I say stop the chatter about trading him for a starting pitcher.

[Ceetar]

The Mets have no depth, so absolutely if you can get someone better than Trevor Williams, or at this point maybe even on par with Williams, you do it for a guy with no real future with the team who also isn't very good.



But that's just it. He's not particularly good, and I don't think you're fooling anyone on a few BABIP enhanced short season samples from 2019-2020. He's only generally used in a platoon split already, including those two seasons. He plays a good defensive 1B, so I guess there's a chance a team needs a good backup guy there and also a lefty bat, but even so you're probably not getting much for him. Maybe if you find a contract that's unpalatable that someone wants to dump? But with a big lead and the Mets holding serve so far with some reinforcements coming back at some point, it seems unlikely the Mets have the appetite to spend in this situation.

[vtmet7]

while I like Dom, he's redundant...he's a 1B (Pete owns the position, so he's just a caddy); he's a DH (not the hardest position to find someone that can do what he's done so far); he's a LFer (he's somewhat defensively challenged in the OF, and his offense there isn't even league average for LF)...is he really bringing anything (so far this season) that a Mark Vientos, a Jake Mangum or even a JD Davis couldn't?



problem is though...Dom has floundered offensively since the beginning of 2021...so realistically, would he fetch more than a mediocre reliever or 5th starter anyhow at this point? Trading him at the end of 2020, he had value...but did he retain any of that value?

[roger_that]

a guy with no real future with the team who also isn't very good.

That's just it. You don't need Dom to have a "real future." He's not here for the future--he's here for right now, in case Pete pulls a hamstring or Canha goes down for a month or so. He can step into the role of your short-term primary LFer or IB man and you don't have to make any panicky moves. meanwhile he can DH or PH for you and do a creditable job. If he were much better, or you had reasonable hopes that he would get much better given more playing time, then you'd have to expand his role, which would create conflicts with Canha or McNeil or even Alonso, but he isn't and you don't. He is what is, and he does a decent job at the role he plays.



If you traded him for someone like Trevor Williams, you'd then need someone to fill his role on the team, and I don't think that pitcher would be much of an improvement over a AAA pitcher, or what you could pick up on the waiver wire, and when Scherzer or deGrom gets back in a few weeks, you'd probably have to cut that pitcher from the big-league squad anyway.

[kcmets]

I thought for sure I was going to open this thread and learn that Dom got

pulled over on the Grand Central Parkway smoking a big fatty, tested positive

for PED's or knocked up a minor.



Jumping to conclusions = bad

[Johnny Lunchbucket]

I tried to make clear already that the plan wasn't to trade away Dom Smith but to acquire a starting pitcher.



To the extent that the club has any mlb talent to spare Smith is the most tradeable at this moment. Also, saying for the third time, Smith would theoretically make sense in a deal with a club like Cincinnati that would take less in a deal were they to also offload a problematic contract, which they happen to have in Moustakas. So if the Mets to take him on, you'd create further redundancy for a lefthanded hitting bench guy -- which would require the club to make a decision on Smith anyway. Therefore a hypothetical deal with the Reds could make sense were Smith to be included.



Third time I've said this

[roger_that]

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: a club like Cincinnati that would take less in a deal were they to also offload a problematic contract, which they happen to have in Moustakas.

You're pretty good at spending Steve Cohen's money, but to what end? Moustakas gives us a pretty even equivalent for Dom, same kind of offense, only he's no good if Alonso goes down for a stretch or if we get a sudden hole in the OF, plus he's 33 years years old as opposed to 26, and on the downslide end of his career. Also, we need another 3Bman like Custer needed more indians. Which of Cincinnati's star pitchers are you fantasizing they would toss in to get rid of Moustakas' contract?

[Edgy MD]

The Mets don't have zero depth. I hope that's not too controversial a thought.



Beyond that, the DH makes depth less of a concern with all teams, sadly.

[Johnny Lunchbucket]

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: a club like Cincinnati that would take less in a deal were they to also offload a problematic contract, which they happen to have in Moustakas. You're pretty good at spending Steve Cohen's money, but to what end? Moustakas gives us a pretty even equivalent for Dom, same kind of offense, only he's no good if Alonso goes down for a stretch or if we get a sudden hole in the OF, plus he's 33 years years old as opposed to 26, and on the downslide end of his career. Also, we need another 3Bman like Custer needed more indians. Which of Cincinnati's star pitchers are you fantasizing they would toss in to get rid of Moustakas' contract?

I suggested they look at Luis Castillo



And I didn't make up the idea of spending Cohens money-- that suggestion came from an article by a national baseball writer that said Cohen would consider such deals as a means to obtain what they really want. You seem to think this about coveting Moustakas or hating Smith-' its not.

[roger_that]

OK, not bad, but how did things work out the last time they acquired Luis Castillo?

[Edgy MD]

Pretty good, actually.



Signing him to a four-year deal after that, not so much.

[Johnny Lunchbucket]

Yeah his contract was too long and he made one regrettably big mistake he'll never be forgiven for but he wasn't a bad solution at a time when the Mets couldn't find any second basemen worth a shit.



Anyway that was also like the 5th "Dos Manos" remark since this Luis Castillo's name came up. But he represents the kinda reliable arm we could probably get now, and use now, unless we're resigned to shittier guys on waiver deals or taking our chances with Szapucki again

[roger_that]

Just my way of saying that it's neither a bad deal nor an implausible one, if they can do it. Whether Cincy will bite, who knows? But I don't expect they will. Worth trying.

[roger_that]

Sent down to Syracuse. That settles that.

[batmagadanleadoff]

=roger_that post_id=94181 time=1654024260 user_id=128]
Sent down to Syracuse. That settles that.

[Johnny Lunchbucket]

Wow, but the Steve Trachsel Cure seems to be just what he needs

[seawolf17]

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: Wow, but the Steve Trachsel Cure seems to be just what he needs

Yup. He's going to hit .600 over the next couple of weeks and he'll be back.

[bmfc1]

Pete gets to take a breather when he DHs and Dom has been at 1st. With Dom gone, Canha and JD are the back-ups at first.

They also face a LHP tonight and likely tomorrow so Dom wouldn't start and with Williams starting you don't expect more than 5 innings so another RP is more helpful than Dom's left-handed bat for these days.

[nymr83]

He'll be back, bit right now the best Mets lineup doesnt include him and neither do options #2 or #3. Guillorme, with his defensive contributions, is arguably the more valuable player anyway. If Dom cant outhit Plummer, Mangum, Lee, Davis, etc then he doesnt have a role here.



Wish the Mets had sold high after 2020, but it is what it is.

[roger_that]

He does have value in that he's not really a .190 BA, 0 HR guy, and by playing an excellent 1B he allows Alonso an occasional day off at DH.

[Frayed Knot]

It's the right move at the right time.

I don't think he's toast but he needs to play more than he needs a half dozen ABs/week up here.

[roger_that]

Still, if they woulda done this a few weeks ago, we coulda kept Cano.



Never mind.

[ashie62]

I would dump Dom like a cheap suit. He just can't hit, period.

[roger_that]

=ashie62 post_id=94213 time=1654032187 user_id=90]
I would dump Dom like a cheap suit. He just can't hit, period.

[MFS62]

He's a decent fielder at first base and maybe he'll catch some of prospect third baseman Mark Vientos' errant throws. (he has close to double digit errors so far this year). I think Mark's fielding may be causing his recent hitting funk. (And I have no numbers to back that up)

I hope when Dom comes back up, he'll bring a revitalized Mark with him.

Later

[Edgy MD]

=roger_that post_id=94216 time=1654032472 user_id=128]
=ashie62 post_id=94213 time=1654032187 user_id=90]
I would dump Dom like a cheap suit. He just can't hit, period.

[Gwreck]

=bmfc1 post_id=94188 time=1654026350 user_id=73]
Pete gets to take a breather when he DHs and Dom has been at 1st. With Dom gone, Canha and JD are the back-ups at first.

[Edgy MD]

Lunchbucket trade target Luis Castillo goes tonight at Fenway as the Sox counter with ex-Met (who has been surprisingly crushing it) Michael Wacha.

[Johnny Lunchbucket]

Reds need a successor to Votto at 1B, is all I'm saying (not all but hey)

[bmfc1]

=bmfc1 post_id=94188 time=1654026350 user_id=73]
Pete gets to take a breather when he DHs and Dom has been at 1st. With Dom gone, Canha and JD are the back-ups at first.

They also face a LHP tonight and likely tomorrow so Dom wouldn't start and with Williams starting you don't expect more than 5 innings so another RP is more helpful than Dom's left-handed bat for these days.