As Casey Stengel Said, "You Can Look it Up"

[MFS62]

Heard yesterday that the 2021 Mets are the first time in major league history to have been in first place after 106 games and end the season with a sub-.500 record.

Hey! An all-time record.

Makes a Mets fan proud.



The players were basically the same, and they even added a player who was one of their hottest hitters at the end of the season, so it must have been that great managing job.

(S/M= 97)



Later

[kcmets]

This constant Luis-this and Luis-that stuff is starting to get on my nerves.

Rojas didn't manage or non-manage the team's collapse. The players sucked ASS!

Good players! Star players! Some very well-compensated players. Sucked ASS!

[TransMonk]

I think it's both.

[Edgy MD]

I'm not sure what S/M means, apart from whips and chains.

[kcmets]

My guess is 'sarcasm meter' or such.

[MFS62]

=kcmets post_id=78923 time=1633011823 user_id=53]
My guess is 'sarcasm meter' or such.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I won't be sad if and when Luis gets fired, but a big part of the blame has to go to the loss of deGrom and the loss of Walker's effectiveness and whatever else went wrong with the pitching in the second half and the hitters never really stepping up.

[kcmets]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I won't be sad if and when Luis gets fired

Nor I, and I think I've said as much. Feel it's inevitable.

[TransMonk]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: ...the loss of Walker's effectiveness and whatever else went wrong with the pitching in the second half...

I'm guessing we'll never know for sure, but it seems that the crackdown on sticky substances coincides with some on our pitching staff falling back to earth.

[MFS62]

Gene Mauch kept his job after the 1964 late season collapse of the Phillies, so you never know.

Later

[kcmets]

=MFS62 post_id=78925 time=1633012451 user_id=60]Yes. We've been using S/M for sarcasm meter on this board for years.

[Lefty Specialist]

Well, he didn't exactly help either. His bullpen management was atrocious even when they were winning. And the fact that they were in first place was greatly due to the corresponding fact that the rest of the division couldn't get out of its own way for four months.



Yes, the hitters didn't perform. Losing deGrom was a killer. But this team quit on Rojas in a way that they didn't quit on a Terry Collins. Collins had numerous faults, but he knew how to keep teams playing hard every day. Rojas didn't. That's a managerial skill that he lacked.



A lot of things need to be addressed in the offseason. Rojas will be one of the first.

[Edgy MD]

My guess is 'sarcasm meter' or such. Yes. We've been using S/M for sarcasm meter on this board for years. Later

Not really. "Sarcasm Content," maybe.

[Marshmallowmilkshake]

Tim Britton had some interesting comments on The Athletic's Mets podcast.



He said fans will forever hate the manager. When the team is losing it's is his fault, and when winning, he's just a "button-pusher." He had some Simpsons quote along those lines.



He said one of the questions you have to ask is who else is out there on the market who you think would be better? Beltran, part 2? He's the only uniformed person still being de facto punished, with Hinch and Cora getting jobs after missing a 60-game season.



I'd like to see how Rojas would do in a season where he didn't lose most of his players to injuries, or didn't have to work with three different general managers. Maybe a one-year deal to give the team a little stability while it hires a new POBO and GM, and let's them decide if they want their own guy in there.

[Edgy MD]

Beltran isn't being punished. He's just not employed as a major league manager.



Beyond that, I hardly see this as a Rojas-vs.-Beltran question. There are 7.8 billion people in the world. Surely someone is better, and likely many people. The question for the Mets is whether they have a good enough chance to find one of those people.



Hiring is, by definition, an act of faith. I don't know who is better and neither does any team who decides to move on from a current manager. I do know that I could think of 100 folks who might be in about 10 or 15 minutes.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Yeah, I feel the same way. I remember being optimistic about Mickey Callaway because he was "smart". I won't be fooled again. When they hired Rojas, I just shrugged and said, "who knows?" Unless the next manager is someone I'm very familiar with (and that's unlikely) I probably won't have any opinion at all. It will be wait-and-see. My only opinion is that they should intentionally target a "sex creep" because that's worked well for them so far.

[Marshmallowmilkshake]

Edgy MD wrote: Beltran isn't being punished. He's just not employed as a major league manager.

I understand. My point was that the punishment was being fired, and the other uniformed people who lost their jobs are back in the same role, albeit one with a new team.



I'm not advocating for Beltran, nor do I think he'd be a serious consideration.

[Benjamin Grimm]

It occurred to me that if the Mets lure Billy Beane to Flushing, maybe he'd bring Bob Melvin along with him. And maybe he will, but I checked and Melvin is signed through 2021 with a club option for 2022.

[Ceetar]

The previous regime's second choice for manager who's team has underperformed expectations two years in a row. Yeah, I'm sure there's a debate to be had about THAT guy. Can't imagine why the fans want THAT guy gone. Oh, so fickle, us fans. This is clearly why we need beat writers, to put bad managers in perspective.

[Edgy MD]

Edgy MD wrote: Hiring is, by definition, an act of faith. I don't know who is better and neither does any team who decides to move on from a current manager. I do know that I could think of 100 folks who might be in about 10 or 15 minutes.

Decided to bang it out between innings.



Manny Acta • Edgardo Alfonzo • Brian Anderson • Wally Backman • Rod Barajas • Kash Beauchamp • Mike Bell • Jay Bell • Craig Biggio • Bruce Bochy • Ed Blankmeyer • Hiram Boccacica • Kevin Boles • Ricky Bones • Mike Bordick • Darren Bragg • Lorenzo Bundy • DJ Carrasco • Frank Catalanotto • Ender Chavez • Endy Chavez • Stubby Clapp • Tim Corbin • Tony DeFrancesco • R.A. Dickey • Ron Darling • Carlos Delgado • Delino DeShields • Mike DiFelice • Benny Distefano • Shawon Dunston • Sal Fasano • John Farrell • Julio Franco • Matt Franco • Ron Gardenhire • Bob Geren • John Gibbons • Tom Goodwin • Curtis Granderson • Danny Graves • Tony Gwynn, Jr. • Chip Hale • DeMarlo Hale • Willie Harris • Keith Hernandez • Orel Hershiser • J.R. House • Dave Hudgens • Clint Hurdle • Dave Jauss • Bobby Jones • Chad Kreuter • Francisco Lindor • Dave Magadan • Charlie Manuel • Lloyd McClendon • Super Joe McEwing • Brian McRae • Jessica Mendoza • Keith Miller • Daniel Murphy • Bob Natal • Rob Neyer • C.J. Nitkowski • Trot Nixon • Tom O'Malley • José Oquendo • Val Pascucci • Al Pedrique • Bo Porter • Mike Quade • Rick Renteria • Frank Riordan • Luis Rivera • Jimmy Rollins • Gar Ryness • Juan Samuel • Skip Schumaker • Dick Scott • Scott Servais • Kelly Shoppach • Justine Siegal • John Stearns • Rick Sweet • Shingo Takatsu • Bobby Valentine • Will Venable • José Vizcaino • Ron Washington • Don Wakamatsu • Dusty Wathan • Eric Wedge • Walt Weiss • Josh Wilker • Vance Wilson • David Wright • Ned Yost • Eric Young, Sr. • Alan Zinter

[Frayed Knot]

Tim Britton had some interesting comments on The Athletic's Mets podcast. He said fans will forever hate the manager. When the team is losing it's is his fault, and when winning, he's just a "button-pusher."

I'll agree to his argument to this extent, that just like every football fan believes hid head coach to be uniquely horrendous in game clock management, poor stewardship of a bullpen is

almost an automatic complaint among baseball fans.

Most fans hate most of their relievers anyway so charges of butchery a rarely more than one or two games away even in the best of times.

Edited September 30, 2021 by Guest

[kcmets]

Whoa, I don't even wanna know how you banged that out.

[MFS62]

Interesting list, Edgy.(especially on short notice)

Gardenhire and Gibbons have Mets history, major league managerial experience and would be very by-the-book choices.

R.A. Dickey would be an interesting out-of-the-box choice and a breath of fresh (Himalayan) air.

Backman has been mentioned for the job for years and has had support from the fans who remember his pugnacious playing style.

I wonder if Edgardo Alfonso would take the job if offered.



Later

[Edgy MD]

=kcmets post_id=78990 time=1633055712 user_id=53]
Whoa, I don't even wanna know how you banged that out.

[kcmets]

It all makes no sense to me. I guess I'm missing something haha

[bmfc1]

=kcmets post_id=78990 time=1633055712 user_id=53]
Whoa, I don't even wanna know how you banged that out.

[roger_that]

Edgy MD wrote: Edgy MD wrote: Hiring is, by definition, an act of faith. I don't know who is better and neither does any team who decides to move on from a current manager. I do know that I could think of 100 folks who might be in about 10 or 15 minutes. Decided to bang it out between innings. Manny Acta • Edgardo Alfonzo • Brian Anderson • Wally Backman • Rod Barajas • Kash Beauchamp • Mike Bell • Jay Bell • Craig Biggio • Bruce Bochy • Ed Blankmeyer • Hiram Boccacica • Kevin Boles • Ricky Bones • Mike Bordick • Darren Bragg • Lorenzo Bundy • DJ Carrasco • Frank Catalanotto • Ender Chavez • Endy Chavez • Stubby Clapp • Tim Corbin • Tony DeFrancesco • R.A. Dickey • Ron Darling • Carlos Delgado • Delino DeShields • Mike DiFelice • Benny Distefano • Shawon Dunston • Sal Fasano • John Farrell • Julio Franco • Matt Franco • Ron Gardenhire • Bob Geren • John Gibbons • Tom Goodwin • Curtis Granderson • Danny Graves • Tony Gwynn, Jr. • Chip Hale • DeMarlo Hale • Willie Harris • Keith Hernandez • Orel Hershiser • J.R. House • Dave Hudgens • Clint Hurdle • Dave Jauss • Bobby Jones • Chad Kreuter • Francisco Lindor • Dave Magadan • Charlie Manuel • Lloyd McClendon • Super Joe McEwing • Brian McRae • Jessica Mendoza • Keith Miller • Daniel Murphy • Bob Natal • Rob Neyer • C.J. Nitkowski • Trot Nixon • Tom O'Malley • José Oquendo • Val Pascucci • Al Pedrique • Bo Porter • Mike Quade • Rick Renteria • Frank Riordan • Luis Rivera • Jimmy Rollins • Gar Ryness • Juan Samuel • Skip Schumaker • Dick Scott • Scott Servais • Kelly Shoppach • Justine Siegal • John Stearns • Rick Sweet • Shingo Takatsu • Bobby Valentine • Will Venable • José Vizcaino • Ron Washington • Don Wakamatsu • Dusty Wathan • Eric Wedge • Walt Weiss • Josh Wilker • Vance Wilson • David Wright • Ned Yost • Eric Young, Sr. • Alan Zinter

Like anyone is going to read all of this shit.



With a better sense of humor, Edgy woulda stuck a "Albert Speer" or "Tennessee Ernie Ford" in there just to see who was paying attention. And since I'm not, maybe he did just that.

[Edgy MD]

Ouch. That hurt my feeling place.

[Fman99]

I would love to see Edgardo get a shot. No one's ever explained to me how it is that he got drummed out of the organization after helping the Cyclones win a league pennant in 2019.

[Johnny Lunchbucket]

I could get into Jimmy Rollins or RA Dickey or Gar Ryness