Major League Baseball, players union reach tentative agreement to salvage 2020 season

[Frayed Knot]

=Ceetar post_id=38626 time=1592056467 user_id=102]
MLB literally offering the same money each time, just demanding various amounts of work for it, and not negotiating in good faith.

[Edgy MD]

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=38638 time=1592073179 user_id=68]
Is there a clause in MLB's CBA for an arbitrator to issue a binding ruling on what, if any, kind of season there's gonna be in 2020?



I could be wrong, but I think that the parties are on their own here, and for a binding arbitrator to step in and sort things out, with actual authority, both sides would have to agree for that to happen.

[Benjamin Grimm]

ESPN wrote: In a statement Saturday night, MLBPA executive director Tony Clark rejected MLB's latest proposal and said: "Further dialogue with the league would be futile. It's time to get back to work. Tell us when and where."

Looks like we'll be having the short season.



Better than nothing.

[Ceetar]

well, COVID still will have the final word. Unless they all decide to not care, which is certainly possible.

[MFS62]

Play ball?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/mlb-players-tell-owners-negotiations-000205942.htmlhttps://www.yahoo.com/news/mlb-players-tell-owners-negotiations-000205942.html



Later

[Ceetar]

until Covid shuts it down again, unless the player want to fire a safety grievance. Owners didn't negotiate so we're stuck with the 50ish game thing.

[ashie62]

Thats about it. Game time. 48-72 games seems to be in the neighborhood about the web



No expanded playoffs. No universal DH and....



We get a Lowrie and Cepedes siting soon. Almost time for an IGT

[Ceetar]

except, of course, Covid.

[metsmarathon]

oh, shit. are we in a pandemic? i totally forget. what was the name of it again? i think it might have some unknown and as-yet unknowable impacts on future events and the plannings thereof. i just.. what was the name of it? is that still happening? do you think it might affect things? like, really?



sigh.



of course covid.



should we just not even try to think about planning or doing anything until we've got a planet-wide satellite constellation that can detect each individual virus particle from 100 miles up and blast it immediately with a (eye-safe) high powered laser beam? pew-pew! no mercy!



we've gotta move forward, or at least start thinking about moving forward. and adjusting as needed. or we spiral into nothingness. yeah, baseball is stupid and it's meaningless and there's too much money in it and it makes people make bad decisions. but people enjoy it and people like it, and ... whatever. covid.



it all could change overnight. some fancy new treatment could come available, or a vaccine get developed, or we learn that applying the right patterned combination of blue and orange pigment nanoparticles onto a fabric mesh effectively blocks the transmission of coronavirus particles to and from the wearer, or whatever. if we're not looking forward towards recovery and normalcy, we never get there, or we won't be ready.



so, yeah, lets hope they can plan a baseball season. and if it can happen, cool. if it can't, because covid, then at least that will be the reason, and not lack of willingness to try. or stupid bad-faith negotiating but the owners.



aaaaanyways...



the mlbpa's "we'll play because they're telling us to" tells me all i need to know about how deep the trenches will be for the 2021 CBA. enjoy what little baseball we can get this year, fellas. i fear it may be all we get for a damned while.

[Ceetar]

well, we could think about planning or doing something about the pandemic, since we haven't.

[Ceetar]

i.e., there's no difference between July 15th or whatever date we're targeting and March 26th. Should've just opened as normal if this was what was going to happen.

[metsmarathon]

i don't hardly think that the mlbpa nor the owners are the people i want figuring out our response to the pandemic. or do you mean what they're gonna do about the pandemic as it pertains to opening up the game again? it's hard to tell what you mean sometimes.



i mean, they are going to be doing different things. like limiting or eliminating attendance. cutting back on food service. drawing social distance lines and arrows on the ground. so on. so forth. and i'm pretty sure the owners are working to figure out the details of that even while they're trying to figure out just how much of the money they want to hide and keep for themselves, and looking in the mirror practicing all their poorhouse-complaints so they don't unintentionally allow their giggles to give away the lie.

[Ceetar]

well, no one has a response to the pandemic. we haven't responded. we did the bare minimum to try to keep the hospitals overrun. So honestly if like, MLB started releasing data-supported and fact-based health guidelines for America, it'd be a step up. Hell, I suggested this earlier, mostly tongue in cheek, but like if all these rich sports leagues, back in early March, realized what was happening and invested in doing those things the government didn't: buying and ramping up testing, and tracing, even if just in the cities they're located in, we'd be in better shape as a country.



But no, and all these players and the ancillary workers (Trainers, clubhouse attendants, team chefs, etc) plus the media are all still just regular people existing in this pandemic out in the world.



We've gotten very little in terms of the medical plan from these 'negotiations'. Some say they're all agreed as far as that goes, others say it's barely thought out. There was something about a waiver of liability. Testing was mentioned, but I don't think it was ever mentioned as daily. It doesn't even seem like we have, as a nation or even as a world? a reliable daily test? There was some talk about broadcasters being told they'd probably only work home games. So sure, a few people don't travel.



I read a tweet that a 40 man player and a pitching coach had COVID already. Dunno what happened with that.



Are these 25-30 players still going to be in a clubhouse together for hours? are they going to fly from city to city together? or on a bus? or are they all expected to have 30 cars and drive themselves?



The game itself seems less problematic, as long as players _do_ in fact spread out in the stands.



The contact thing isn't as serious as it was originally thought, but it's still not perfectly fine. The ball travels around a lot. What happens when the COVID right fielder touches his face, fields a double, throws to the cutoff man, who throws home to the catcher, who then throws to try to get the runner at third, and then the cutoff man wipes sweat from his eyes with the hand that just touched the ball? Or is every player going to take a sanitizer break between plays?



These all seemed too risky even when they were making noises about some kind of Arizona quarantine bubble, now that stay at home orders have been lifted and they can just as easily contract it elsewhere and infect everyone.



And the owner's just don't care about baseball, so they have no interest in trying to get creative. There's no suggestion for like, a combination of 7 game series with-in a pool or division so that you can chunk out and isolate groups of people for easier quarantine.



That could've been fun. Like, Mets, Phillies, Nationals, Orioles or something. Play each other in a 7 game series. Probably 4 home, 3 away deal, to minimize travel. And then switch up the pools a few times, and figure out a playoff berth off that. Plus factor in a 'off pool' so there's a 2-3 week stretch to use in case you need to quarantine a pool, without actually losing games. You test everyone at the end of each section, and wait a few days for the next pool.

[metsmarathon]

i feel like the exact details of the implementation, while interesting to ponder and maybe i guess argue about, of any player-safety provisions, are nothing i terribly need to concern myself with, unless they ultimately prove ineffective at preventing any spread among players that would end the season. but really, none of that has any impact on my life, so i tend to ignore it. i mean, its interesting, and if they screw it up, sure, it might have an impact. but really, it's like wondering what any one random office or industry is planning to do. mostly, i'm going to trust them to do their best to figure it out. because it is in their interest to do so.



i don't really know that the owners have it in them to be truly creative. they ted to be incredibly risk-averse in that regard. well, i say that, and then there's all those stupid monkeying around with various rules that the commissioner's office floats. which, i guess if i really think about it, are really just fiddling around the margins of the sport, compared to some of the changes i think that i see in other sports. so i think expecting something truly out-of-the-box out of them is asking a leopard to change its spots.



the first part, though. i agree, that would have been good. but then, that falls into the trap of any ideas about the benefits of privatization - any private entity must be concerned first and foremost with it's own financial needs. generally those thoughts tend to run short-term, occasionally they run long-term. but never (i guess rarely) do they act for the public, or greater good. unless they can draw a direct line to their own bottom line. which, well, is the whole point of a (properly functioning and well-run) government, isn't it?

[Johnny Lunchbucket]

I also don't really care about how they do it, or really, even if they do it, this year.

[Ceetar]

I mean, I also don't care much about the negotiations on how much who gets paid, etc. But whether or not they're taking proper precautions is going to end up informing whether or not there actually is a season. if dozens of people within the game get the virus during Spring2 it seems unlikely they could continue in good faith.

[Edgy MD]

If they take the swooshes off the uniform, covid-19 would go away.



#science

[Ceetar]

and bring back the black and mercury mets.

[G-Fafif]

[Gwreck]

You don't need to be a lawyer to know that is a ridiculous position to take.

[Edgy MD]

Wow, the players have already agreed to come in under imposed conditions not agreed to in print, and then the owners play that card?



Come on.

[smg58]

In other words, the owners won't bargain with the players unless the players toss out all of their bargaining leverage.

[MFS62]

=smg58 post_id=38745 time=1592262176 user_id=62]
In other words, the owners won't bargain with the players unless the players toss out all of their bargaining leverage.

[Frayed Knot]

I don't know what is meant by "legal claims" in this context.

[Frayed Knot]

Frayed Knot wrote: I don't know what is meant by "legal claims" in this context.

OK, here we go:



Manfred told ESPN: “I had been hopeful that once we got to common ground on the idea that we were gonna pay the players full prorated salary, that we would get some cooperation in terms of proceeding under

the agreement that we negotiated with the MLBPA on March 26th. Unfortunately, over the weekend, while Tony Clark was declaring his desire to get back to work, the union's top lawyer was out telling reporters,

players and eventually getting back to owners that as soon as we issued a schedule — as they requested — they intended to file a grievance claiming they were entitled to an additional billion dollars.

Obviously, that sort of bad-faith tactic makes it extremely difficult to move forward in these circumstances.”

[Gwreck]

It's surprising that the owners would want Manfred making such dumb statements publicly.

[Frayed Knot]

Assuming this potential lawsuit thing is accurate, once the players told the clubs to go ahead and set a starting date and schedule I don't see how Manfred couldn't make a public statement.

Without one, silence and a lack of action on their side in the face of what seemingly was green lights all ahead wouldn't make any sense.

[Ceetar]

they were "silent" (if you don't count the public statements through media stooges) for days and days after every MLBPA offer, like they were running out the clock.

[Gwreck]

Frayed Knot wrote: Assuming this potential lawsuit thing is accurate, once the players told the clubs to go ahead and set a starting date and schedule I don't see how Manfred couldn't make a public statement.

He could make a public statement to announce the beginning of the season, of course.



For Manfred to now claim that the specter of a union grievance would delay the season is idiotic. Mike Vaccaro of the NY Post had a good take:



https://nypost.com/2020/06/15/rob-manfred-showing-his-true-colors-as-he-lets-baseball-burn/https://nypost.com/2020/06/15/rob-manfred-showing-his-true-colors-as-he-lets-baseball-burn/

But [Manfred's] worst calamity has come in the last week. Then, he guaranteed a season with 100 percent certainty. Now he says he's not so sure. He is worried that if he enacts a season — which is his right — the players will file a grievance. That's his issue now? Did it just occur to him? At best that's malpractice. At worst it's sheer incompetence.

.



There's another good take from Tyler Kepner here:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/08/sports/baseball/mlb-season-owners-negotiations.htmlhttps://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/08/sports/baseball/mlb-season-owners-negotiations.html

[ashie62]

At least 8 owners do not want to play a 2020 season says the interweb