Let the Wild, Baseless Speculation Begin

[Johnny Lunchbucket]

Borrowing Lefty's remark from the Stroman discussion for a rumor thread.



Buster this morning suggests Red Sox are willing to pay up for Diaz.



Previous speculation links Wheeler and Diaz in a deal together to replenish prospect well. That to me makes sense, though you know what would be even cooler? Signing Wheeler to an extension NOW!!!! and just trading Matz or Vargas.



Either way Olney sez 3B slugger Bobby Dalbec or 1B/3B Triston Casas (Boston's No. 2 and 1 prospects, respectively) could go. Dalbec is a RHH high-whiff slugger with a strong arm (sounds like Frazier); Casas is a lanky LHH with more classic on-base skills but perhaps a 1B.



Sounds like San Diego signaling Mets' ask for Syndy is too high and let them miss out if so, and if Manual Margot (usta be a hot prospect) is the MLB talent we might pass. In fact let's not trade Syndy at all.

[Lefty Specialist]

I was really hoping Todd Frazier would be the subject of trade rumors but apparently nobody wants him.

[Ceetar]

I think Wheeler still goes. He's going to be a free agent anyway.



There was a post somewhere about Wheeler mentioning how communicative Van Wagenen was with him, the situation, and all that. Seems unlikely they're talking extension _now_ but maybe there's seeds sown to bring him back anyway, or some clear stance on what his value is to them. *shrug* It doesn't seem unreasonable they could trade AND re-sign him.



Regardless, they needed at least two pitchers next season and nabbing a pretty good one now allows you to be a little choosier later.

[Frayed Knot]

It's fine with me if they deal Frazier, but it's not like he's an 'addition by subtraction' kind of guy. Among position players, only Alonso, McNeil, and Conforto are out-WAR-ing him this season.

If they can get something for him then go for it. But if he stays he stays ... and then is gone two months from now.

[Johnny Lunchbucket]

I know how long the odds are but if the Mets just said screw it, we're going for it with a 5 of deGrom, Syndergaard, Wheeler, Stroman and Matz ball-out for the rest of the season I'd get behind that, and then offer Wheeler a qualifying deal.



If they want to replenish the farm system go ahead and trade Diaz. This isn't a bankable idea but a million cranebucks says a return to the closer role for Fammy results in some improvement

[Lefty Specialist]

Gah. I'm afraid of putting Familia into any kind of situation. I'd be terrified if he had to choose between paper and plastic at Shop-Rite.

[Johnny Lunchbucket]

One of my Minneapolis-based colleagues is terrified the Twins will trade Bryon Buxton for Syndergaard

[Lefty Specialist]

Well, they're not moving Vargas to the pen. So if Brodie is serious about contending for the wild card, he's got to pick up a bullpen arm someplace. Trading Vargas would have been a good way to get one, but, no. We had to get Bradley Wilpon's buddy instead.



Right now they're 50-55 because of an underperforming starting staff, but especially a flammable bullpen. Add in a poor defense with too many players out of position and inconsistent offense and there you go. Some of these things need to be addressed. The starting staff may be improving, but the pen, oy.



Trading Diaz will not help. Yes, he's sucked, but at least he's closer material. Lugo with his arm dangling by a string and Familia with his sanity dangling by a string are not reasonable alternatives. The Syracuse shuttle has produced nothing.



Nothing else good can happen unless the pen is addressed. A good CF would be nice but it's not happening.

[Johnny Lunchbucket]

Ervin Santana pulled from today's scheduled start for AAA

[Edgy MD]

That's just a fact. Let's get some wild and baseless speculation attached to it!

[Johnny Lunchbucket]

THEY WANT TO TRY A "BULLPEN" GAME TO SEE IF ITS THE KIND IF THING THE METS WOULD LIKE TO DO I THINK

[Benjamin Grimm]

It appears that the Red Sox are either likely to trade for Edgar Diaz, or are not likely to trade for Edgar Diaz, depending on who you ask.



My conclusion is that Diaz might get traded to the Red Sox. Or that he might not.

[Guest 41Forever]

Unless we get some amazing players in return -- better than what we got in the last firesale -- I don't see the advantage in dealing Diaz. He's given us heartburn to be sure, but there has to be a way to get him back on track. Also, I think he -- not Cano -- was the centerpiece of that deal last year. Deal the centerpiece of that trade, and it's like saying "Yeah, we totally screwed up that one. Oops." I still feel more confident with him than Familia at this point.

Edited July 30, 2019 by Guest

[seawolf17]

Unless we get some amazing players in return -- better than what we got in the last firesale -- I don't see the advantage in dealing Diaz. He's given us heartburn to be sure, but there has to be a way to get his back on track. Also, I think he -- not Cano -- was the centerpiece of that deal last year. Deal the centerpiece of that trade, and it's like saying "Yeah, we totally screwed up that one. Oops." I still feel mroe confident with him than Familia at this point.

Absolutely. Diaz isn't going anywhere.

[G-Fafif]

Rays are asking about Diaz.

[Benjamin Grimm]

They're probably asking, "Why did you take on Robinson Cano in order to get Diaz?"

[Frayed Knot]

Unless we get some amazing players in return -- better than what we got in the last firesale -- I don't see the advantage in dealing Diaz. He's given us heartburn to be sure, but there has to be a way to get his back on track. Also, I think he -- not Cano -- was the centerpiece of that deal last year. Deal the centerpiece of that trade, and it's like saying "Yeah, we totally screwed up that one. Oops." I still feel mroe confident with him than Familia at this point. Absolutely. Diaz isn't going anywhere.

Don't be so sure.

The reason Diaz is being dangled isn't because the Mets have soured on him and are admitting a mistake. It's because ALL the contenders -- even the Yanx who signed like 78 relievers prior to the season -- are

looking for relief help and if Diaz will start a bidding war then you have to listen.



My concern, as it is for most of these situations, is that team mgmt often, in effect, 'pre-decides' that they're going to trade someone (or trade FOR someone) and then they stop at nothing in order to achieve that

goal. iow, once they make the decision they then never consider NOT doing a deal. See the Kazmir, Scott fiasco.

But you HAVE TO be able to walk away if you don't get your price but that's one of the places I think the corporate mentality of this club gets in its own way.

[A Boy Named Seo]

I'd rather be the team that trades away the closer for a haul than the team that trades for one.



If the price is right, see ya, Sugar. Then rebuild the pen next year on other just-as-volatile, cheaper FA options.

[Johnny Lunchbucket]

A Boy Named Seo wrote: I'd rather be the team that trades away the closer for a haul than the team that trades for one. If the price is right, see ya, Sugar. Then rebuild the pen next year on other just-as-volatile, cheaper FA options.

Yep

[Benjamin Grimm]

I agree with that too. Rumor is that Boston is considering trading a top third-base prospect. I don't know how good the guy is, or even what his name is, but if he's more or less on a par with Kelenic you've mitigated some of the damage of that trade. (There's still the remainder of Cano's contract, however...)

[G-Fafif]

Ken Rosenthal says Mets are "asking for major league or major league-ready pieces for Syndergaard, even from clubs with top farm systems."

[Johnny Lunchbucket]

Seeing as we're trading one, not a bad ask.

[G-Fafif]

Buster Olney: "Mets and Braves have talked about possible deals -- Diaz, Wheeler -- but no traction so far."

[Johnny Lunchbucket]

Good Joel Sherman column on the Mets and their seeming weird approach to this and every deadline: https://nypost.com/2019/07/30/understanding-the-wilpon-model-and-mets-trade-deadline-approach/https://nypost.com/2019/07/30/understanding-the-wilpon-model-and-mets-trade-deadline-approach/



One reason why the "sustained success" thing continually eludes them. No vision, no patience, just continual, contemporaneous pivots.



Really the only time in the Wilpon Era they ever really got their hands dirty on a real rebuild was when Sandy was thrust upon them by the lenders -- and there was some trouble truly committing to that (the Wright extension). Worth noting he got them to a world series and as soon as the Pons were out of hot water financially they moved to crush him.

[Ceetar]

I mean, I wouldn't sell the horse for a closer but it's easy to draw a link from the Mets acquisition of Addison Reed for basically nothing to their two playoff appearances.

[kcmets]

=Ceetar post_id=17067 time=1564520365 user_id=102]I mean, I wouldn't sell the horse for a closer but it's...

[Ceetar]

I mean, that's what newspapers still exist for, so you can ignore stuff and they can recap it for you later.



I typically hate all this projecting and teeth gnashing but there's a certain chaos to it that I enjoy watching. The EXTREME vitriol being spewed over what the Mets didn't do was entertaining most of the 2015 trade deadline, and even more so once the Cespedes news broke.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Some Mets snark from David Roth at Deadspin. Including about the third instsance I'm noticing about how the Wilpons suddenly don't like Syndergaard. And by don't like, I mean personality-wise. If this is true and history repeats itself, this is the kiss of death for Met fans of Thor. I guess the Wilpons still think that their fans will accept the unloading of any Met so long as the owners float a rumor about the so-called creepy soon to be departed Met. I now await the Mets inevitable acquisition of this year's Jim Fregosi in exchange for baseball's most spectacular throwing arm.



https://deadspin.com/a-working-theory-of-what-the-mets-are-even-doing-right-https://deadspin.com/a-working-theory-of-what-the-mets-are-even-doing-right-



An excerpt:

The rest of it, the “Mets hijacking the market” part, is very interesting, and that's the part that we don't know yet. The Mets have, in Noah Syndergaard, easily the most valuable player being made available at the trade deadline. Ordinarily, a player like Syndergaard would not be made available under any circumstances—he is younger and better than Stroman, will be underpaid per MLB's system for two more years instead of one, and when he's right is one of the most overpowering arms in all of baseball. The Mets owners do not appear to like Syndergaard very much—it's a long and stupid story, but ownership tends to have a problem with big-personality aces, and Syndergaard is one of those—and the team's owner-dictated and shamelessly Flintstonian approach to pitching best practices have not helped Syndergaard at all in recent years. Syndergaard's stats this year have been startlingly pedestrian given his outsized stature and talent. The Mets think Syndergaard is less valuable than every other team in the league does, and as long as they're the ones messing around with him, they'll probably be right. The people in charge of the team are just self-aware enough to realize this, but unwilling to admit that the inevitable fix that unlocks Syndergaard's potential is one they too could make. And so they seem determined to trade Syndergaard, but filled with dread at the possibility—it's tempting to call it a likelihood—that he will compete for the Cy Young Award for whichever team acquires him and makes the same sort of simple, simplifying nudges that let the Houston Astros turn fellow Underachieving Demigod Stuck In Shitty Organization Gerrit Cole into a powerhouse. The Astros, as it happens, match up very well in a potential Syndergaard trade. “But the Mets have to be wondering if a club such as the Astros knows what they don't,” Joel Sherman wrote in the New York Post last week. “Notably, how to evoke the best of health and production from Syndergaard.” It's not just that the entire MLB trade market is waiting for the Mets to move Syndergaard, it's that they're waiting for the Mets to sort out impacted organizational issues and ownership-specific neuroses that have endured for a generation. It's less a hijacking than being in an escape room with a bunch of ultra-confident dopes. They've been arguing for hours.

[Ceetar]

David Roth is a hack and just writes click-bait nonsense for Deadspin, completely unsourced or without an ounce of critical thinking.

[batmagadanleadoff]

The Wilpons are so savvy that they've managed two first place finishes in 31seasons while playing in the nation's largest market - the same market that the Yankees play in.