Let's call up Dom Smith

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

Vic Sage wrote: we have NO 1bmen on the roster. We just have guys we stick at first base.

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner. Or at least a post I heartily agree with. The Mets have trotted an array of options out to man first base, but no one who really looks like a true answer at first base.

Gonzalez (old and well past his prime)
Bruce (old and hasn't really played first base much before)
Flores ( I love his passion and he can hit, but defensively he is essentially a jack of all trades and the master of none)
Smith (defensively seems adequate, but unproven as a hitter - should probably gets some time at 1st the remainder of this season to see whether or not he can be a viable option next year)

There appears to be no long term option among the bunch in my opinion. Peter Alonso has hit at every stop during his minor league career ,so there is so hope for the future. Though I have never seen him play (outside of a few highlight videos) I have read that he couldn't catch cold in a Siberian winter. I would personally like to see what the man can do.

[HahnSolo]

Smith's been almost exclusively an OF since he's gone back down to Vegas right? Maybe that's all we need to know about his future prospects at 1B in Queens?

[Edgy MD]

No, I think that's more about having no other place to put Alonso.

[bmfc1]

[tweet:2tdshbll]

[/tweet:2tdshbll]

[MFS62]

bmfc1 wrote: [tweet]https://twitter.com/betsyhelfand/status/1031049177004953600[/tweet]

I think it should say "mis-playing".
While he was learning the position in the minors, didn't they mention anything about calling for the ball or being called off by another player?

Yech.
Later

[Edgy MD]

Well, I think we have little idea how he's performed defensively in the minors.

Calling somebody off quicker, that's an experience issue. But you have two inexperienced players out there, one brand new to the position, and that's the sort of thing that happens. Mick chose to go into extra innings with an out-of-position neophyte in left, and got burned for it.

Beyond that, though, they had 12 innings and ample opportunity to push a second run across.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

They also started the game with an inexperienced left fielder. I didn;t see the first run, but Wheely seemed to think that ball could have been caught but we were burned by a shift

[Centerfield]

I know I sound like a broken record here, but why on earth are we not starting Dom Smith? If you want Flores to get AB's, start him at 2B. Or start Smith in LF.

There is absolutely no reason to play these filler guys over Smith.

[Ceetar]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: They also started the game with an inexperienced left fielder. I didn;t see the first run, but Wheely seemed to think that ball could have been caught but we were burned by a shift

Wheeler's been whiny about the shift in the past right?

I didn't see it either and can't seem to find a catch probability by play breakdown anywhere (And it doesn't appear in Reinheimer's statcast fielding).

I mean, Smith probably should've been starting over Reinheimer out there, inexperience be damned.

[A Boy Named Seo]

They were shading him up the middle, but it wasn't a gross overshift IMO. And Keith would have raised a stink about it if it was. The replay is in the link below. You can see Amed's little hat in the shortstop position, shaded towards second. Home-plate view at the :30 mark. It was a perfectly placed little dumper.

https://www.mlb.com/giants/news/giants-beat-mets-in-13-innings/c-291167868

[Edgy MD]

Well, it wasn't about experience, so much as it was about Holland throwing withe his left hand. Recall that Conforto and McNeil were out of the lineup also.

That said, I still advocate for Smith at first and Flores in left if they are going to be in the lineup at the same time. It may not have changed yesterday's outcome, but it's a better way to get a look for the future. Flores has not only established that he can play first, but that he's the best option there right now. But going forward, he's going to be looking for at-bats around the diamond again, so he might as well get familiar with left. And if they want a further look at Smith, it should be at the position he's going to be competing for going forward.

As for that pop-up, with a traditional alignment, the shortstop would have been camped under it clipping his nails by the time it came down.

[Centerfield]

Edgy MD wrote: Well, it wasn't about experience, so much as it was about Holland throwing withe his left hand. Recall that Conforto and McNeil were out of the lineup also.

This just drives me crazy. Let's see what McNeil can do against lefties. Let's see what Smith can do against lefties. Let's let Conforto get MLB AB's against lefties and try to improve.

[A Boy Named Seo]

Edgy MD wrote: As for that pop-up, with a traditional alignment, the shortstop would have been camped under it clipping his nails by the time it came down.

Yeah, but I'm not sure traditional alignment is the best play there anyway. Fangraphs sez he has gone opposite field on batted balls only 17% of his ABs this year, but has gone up the middle (31%) and pulled it to right (52%). Seems shading him up the middle was the right positioning. Wheeler jammed him inside to get him to pull, too, but he fought a wicked pitch off the hands and somehow dumped it to left. Luckiest luck, but I think Amed was in the right spot.

[Edgy MD]

Yeah, I'm not sure either. I'm just cornsnoggled by the reality that we got beat by giving up a pair of shit popups over 13 innings.

[HahnSolo]

Wheeler was probably salty about not only the run-scoring bloop hit, but also the Belt hit earlier in the inning was a weak bloop to where the SS would normally be stationed.

So he probably felt like he had to get five outs that inning.

[G-Fafif]

Wheeler enjoys "shoving it" against the team that traded him, he has said. Probably frustrated to give up anything to them, especially when it was the shift that did him in. Then again, perhaps the shift has saved him a base hit here or there this season.

[smg58]

The shift is playing the odds. There is sufficient evidence that it lowers BABIP, at least with certain hitters. But just because it will work more often than not doesn’t mean it will always work, and it didn’t last night.


I realize Smith is not an experienced outfielder, but it would be nice to get the sense that he has a clue out there.

[Frayed Knot]

On the other hand, it's not like collisions, near misses, and other mix-ups don't occasionally occur with experienced IFs & OFs too.


And, yeah, if pitchers, broadcasters, and fans are going to complain each time a shift leads to a hit that wouldn't be otherwise, they have to at least acknowledge the ones that shifts take away.

[Edgy MD]

I have a theory about this guy. He's not only gotten rid of the bowling ball under his shirt, but the perpetually disengaged sleepy eyes are gone too. I think he's not only cut his diet but given up the pot. I think he's getting used to working with a new body and a new mind, and he's a good candidate for a bounceback in 2019.

[Centerfield]

Dom with double yesterday. His OPS in September: 1.178. His OPS in August: 1.333

Small sample size. Sure. But why are the Mets keeping his sample size so small?

There is no benefit to giving away Dom's AB's to Jay Bruce and Austin Jackson. Bruce will never be able to rehabilitate his trade value enough that someone will take him off our hands. And Austin Jackson is a journeyman with a .733 career OPS. (who after a hot start, now has a .724 OPS with the Mets)

I think the Jay Bruce thing is all about justifying the signing. Ownership is hoping Jay will have a strong finish to the season so they can diminish the need to get actual production this winter. "We saw the real Jay Bruce in September."

And they were hoping Austin Jackson would stay hot so they could justify bringing him back next year. "Austin Jackson has shown he can play in NY."

That's the only reason I can think of to bury Dom the way they have.

[Ceetar]

All teams justify their signing and give AB to guys they're committed to. It's not productive to piss off Bruce by half-benching him.

Jackson and Reyes though, even Flores, fuck 'em. I want Smith to play mostly every day going forward, but like, he needs to walk.

He looked like he was doing it early on in the Minors, but since his first call-up when he basically didn't, he went back down and basically didn't, and has only walked once in the majors in his recent returns. And that was Ball-Ball-Ball-called strike-ball, which I could probably look at the actual pitch location but was probably not close with bases empty, down 6-0, and Tomas Nido on deck.

[Guest 41Forever]

Centerfield wrote: Dom with double yesterday. His OPS in September: 1.178. His OPS in August: 1.333 Small sample size. Sure. But why are the Mets keeping his sample size so small? There is no benefit to giving away Dom's AB's to Jay Bruce and Austin Jackson. Bruce will never be able to rehabilitate his trade value enough that someone will take him off our hands. And Austin Jackson is a journeyman with a .733 career OPS. (who after a hot start, now has a .724 OPS with the Mets) I think the Jay Bruce thing is all about justifying the signing. Ownership is hoping Jay will have a strong finish to the season so they can diminish the need to get actual production this winter. "We saw the real Jay Bruce in September." And they were hoping Austin Jackson would stay hot so they could justify bringing him back next year. "Austin Jackson has shown he can play in NY." That's the only reason I can think of to bury Dom the way they have.

I'm not sure why you think would want Austin Jackson for next year. Isn't Lagares signed for 2019 with an option for 2020? I don't think Jackson is bad to have around as a reserve. But my impression was that he's here to play out the string after the injuries and it was apparent the Mate den Dekker wasn't an option.

I don't know what happens next year with Bruce or Smith. If Alonzo is as good as advertised, he's going to be up sooner in the season -- after May 1 -- than later. You still have a crowd with Bruce, Conforto, Nimmo, Lagares and eventually Cespedes.

[Lefty Specialist]

I'm assuming they'll hold Alonso down in the minors for a month or two to prevent his FA clock from starting. It's what they do. and if they didn't bring him up when he was raging hot this year they'll wait to bring him up next year. I'm betting they trade Dom Smith this winter for a bag of balls, and roll with Bruce at first until Alonso comes up.

I wouldn't expect Ces until near the All-Star break. So the first two months the outfield is Conforto/Lagares/Nimmo. Then Conforto/Nimmo/Bruce. Then Cespedes/Conforto/Nimmo/Bruce. I would expect Cespedes would be limited, so there'll be playing time for everybody. Then dump Bruce at the deadline unless one or more of the others have a season-ending injury (which'll probably happen, rendering all this moot).

Austin Jackson, meh. Guys like him are a dime a dozen. Sign him to a minor league deal and let him fight it out with a few other Michael Tucker clones in spring training to be the 5th/6th outfielder.

Get a bullpen!

[Centerfield]

41Forever wrote: I'm not sure why you think [they] would want Austin Jackson for next year. Isn't Lagares signed for 2019 with an option for 2020? I don't think Jackson is bad to have around as a reserve. But my impression was that he's here to play out the string after the injuries and it was apparent the Mate den Dekker wasn't an option.

Why do I think that the Mets want Austin Jackson for next year? Because he's playing this year. And the only logical reason to play him this year is to prepare for next season. There should be no need to find someone to "play out the string". The term "play out the string" suggests that these meaningless games are also useless. And that is far, far from the truth.

I've said it many times this season. Even in a lost year, major league AB's are a valuable, finite asset. A team that has a plan makes good use of these AB's, even during a lost year. A short-sighted, foolish club, brings in warm bodies to "play out the string".

Major league at-bats can be used for:

1. Evaluation: Give a young player significant window of time so that the club may evaluate his skills on a major league level. Simultaneously, that young player benefits from...

2. Development: A young player gets his feet wet, makes his rookie mistakes, gets used to the speed of big league pitching/hitting. Gives him groundwork so he knows what to work on moving forward.

3. Establish Trade Value: An injured player, a former prospect, a veteran player, can all use AB's in a lost season to regain trade value. Particularly before the deadlines.

4. Rehabilitation: A player coming off a long-term injury can use big league AB's to get back to game speed.

There are a few other uses I'm sure. All of these have an eye toward the future. They help the long-term goal which is to get back to winning. Well prepared clubs use their AB's accordingly.

The Mets have given Austin Jackson 145 AB's in the second half. They have given Dominic Smith 15. If you knew nothing else about the players, which guy do you think the Mets are thinking has a future here? The only way to explain the number of AB's given to Jackson is that the Mets think he has a future here. If the Mets do not think so, then the Mets are acting foolishly.

Now sure, they play different positions. But Smith is able to play a corner OF position. This would require moving Conforto or Nimmo to CF. Guess what? In all likelihood, Nimmo and/or Conforto should see significant time in CF next year. And so the logical move would be to give them time at these positions (see use #2 above). The only way you wouldn't need that is you have another centerfielder. Lagares? Possibly. But the guy has a .667 career OPS and can't stay healthy. Or, the Mets plan on adding another centerfielder. Most likely a guy who's cheap. A guy like...Austin Jackson.

Now, you may be right. The Mets may have no plans to bring back Austin Jackson. They might have signed him to "play out the string". They did exactly that with Norichika Aoki last year. But the case could be made that the Mets had no one even worth trying out last September. That certainly isn't the case this year. Dominic Smith was once a top flight prospect. To waste these AB's, give them to Austin Jackson, while leaving Smith unproven, untradeable, and undeveloped is the epitome of foolish.

[Frayed Knot]

I'm assuming they'll hold Alonso down in the minors for a month or two to prevent his FA clock from starting. It's what they do. and if they didn't bring him up when he was raging hot this year they'll wait to bring him up next year. I'm betting they trade Dom Smith this winter for a bag of balls, and roll with Bruce at first until Alonso comes up.

A couple of things here:
-- delaying call-ups a month to delay FA-gency ... "it's what they do"
Not with Wheeler they didn't, calling him up in mid June
Not with Rosario either (Aug)
Not Reyes (June - plus he had <1/2 season of AA by that April)
Not Wright (July)
Not Conforto (Aug)
Not Dom Smith (Aug)
Not Nimmo (end of June)
Not d'Arnaud (Aug)
Not Harvey (end of July)
Not Matz (end of June)

The closest arguments you've got for that is either Syndergaard or deGrom - both in mid May, or about a month after necessary to gain one FA year. But deGrom was barely even a prospect at the time so
there was no reason for that to factor into the decision, so we're down to maybe Syndergaard among the current group as he was at least a top-15 prospect that winter with a full year of AAA under his belt.


The other is that I think we're in danger of falling into the 'prospect fatigue' trap with Dom to the point where we've already moved on to the next pretty young thing to come along.
They're very different players so it's tough to ever compare the two even though they play the same position. But the idea that many have given up on the younger of the two (Smith) and believe that the
older / lower drafted / worse fielder one is already so good that he's being unfairly held back which can only be the result of the delayed FA maneuver is stretching things more than a bit.
Alonso had a very nice half-season with the bat in Bingo and a slightly lesser second half in Vegas (though with more power ... but it's Vegas) for a player where his bat is said to be his only asset.
The obvious answer has to do with the 40-man roster and Alonso not needing to be protected this winter (meaning someone else can be) and the fact that, yes, they have other folks to try at 1B right now.
Bruce is under contract and is also a better bet to hit next year than Alonso.

Look, I hope the guy goes on to have a great career but some seem to believe that this is already a done deal. He's simply not the kind of prospect you move things around for simply to delay the possibility
that holding control of his rights in the season seven years from now is going to be a valuable asset -- Ike Davis anyone? -- even if the team did have a track record of doing such stuff (which they don't appear to).

[Guest 41Forever]

Good points!

[Ceetar]

man, Bruce is garbage at first (and in the outfield) and I'd hate for them to do it, but you probably get the best return trading Alonso and just rolling with that. or someone else (David Wright?)

[Centerfield]

I'm assuming they'll hold Alonso down in the minors for a month or two to prevent his FA clock from starting. It's what they do. and if they didn't bring him up when he was raging hot this year they'll wait to bring him up next year. I'm betting they trade Dom Smith this winter for a bag of balls, and roll with Bruce at first until Alonso comes up. A couple of things here: -- delaying call-ups a month to delay FA-gency ... "it's what they do" Not with Wheeler they didn't, calling him up in mid June Not with Rosario either (Aug) Not Reyes (June - plus he had <1/2 season of AA by that April) Not Wright (Julhttp://www.thecranepool.net/phpBB/viewforum.php?f=2y) Not Conforto (Aug) Not Dom Smith (Aug) Not Nimmo (end of June) Not d'Arnaud (Aug) Not Harvey (end of July) Not Matz (end of June) The closest arguments you've got for that is either Syndergaard or deGrom - both in mid May, or about a month after necessary to gain one FA year. But deGrom was barely even a prospect at the time so there was no reason for that to factor into the decision, so we're down to maybe Syndergaard among the current group as he was at least a top-15 prospect that winter with a full year of AAA under his belt. The other is that I think we're in danger of falling into the 'prospect fatigue' trap with Dom to the point where we've already moved on to the next pretty young thing to come along. They're very different players so it's tough to ever compare the two even though they play the same position. But the idea that many have given up on the younger of the two (Smith) and believe that the older / lower drafted / worse fielder one is already so good that he's being unfairly held back which can only be the result of the delayed FA maneuver is stretching things more than a bit. Alonso had a very nice half-season with the bat in Bingo and a slightly lesser second half in Vegas (though with more power ... but it's Vegas) for a player where his bat is said to be his only asset. The obvious answer has to do with the 40-man roster and Alonso not needing to be protected this winter (meaning someone else can be) and the fact that, yes, they have other folks to try at 1B right now. Bruce is under contract and is also a better bet to hit next year than Alonso. Look, I hope the guy goes on to have a great career but some seem to believe that this is already a done deal. He's simply not the kind of prospect you move things around for simply to delay the possibility that holding control of his rights in the season seven years from now is going to be a valuable asset -- Ike Davis anyone? -- even if the team did have a track record of doing such stuff (which they don't appear to).

Maybe I'm not understanding the conversation between you two, but I look at your list and I feel like most of them were delayed a year. I mean, I guess you could argue over what "delay" means. I think the point is that the timing of the call up insures that the club gets 6+ seasons of control rather than just 6 (making the club out of spring training) or less than 6 (calling up the player in April). Every player on your list had 6+ years of control.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I was a little surprised that Rosario came up in late 2017 instead of May 2018, but yeah, he's a 6-plus guy too. It's just that his "plus" isn't as lengthy as that of deGrom or Syndergaard.

I don't recall the last time a highly regarded prospect made the Opening Day roster with no prior big league experience. There was Doc Gooden, but I doubt that he was the most recent example. It makes sense to do that delay. Sure, Alonso may be just a dim memory by 2025, but if having someone else hold the position for April of 2019 gives you that extra year of control, why not do it?

[Ceetar]

Scott Kingery of the Phillies made the team out of Spring Training..

...but he signed a long term contract to do so.