Giancarlo: Going Once, Going Twice, ...

[Guest 41Forever]

That’s what I was wondering, too. If he wants to buy the team, then immediately slash payroll to recoup money on his investment, then why was his group the best to purchase the team? Did that mean the other groups brought even less to the table?

And they wonder why the Marlins can never build a decent fan base?

[batmagadanleadoff]

Centerfield wrote: Joel Sherman is reporting Starlin Castro and good, but not top, prospects going the other way. They are going to get Stanton without giving up their top prospects. But who cares about payroll right?

Only on this forum do you hear the "payroll doesn't matter" bullshit mantra. And to defend the team from New York Fucking City, no less. Stanton should be playing for a team like the Yankees. Because the Yankees play in the greatest city in the world. So do the Mets. But the Mets have their fans so fucking brainwashed with their years and years of lowered expectations that to many Mets fans, the Mets might as well be playing in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

[bmfc1]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Because the Yankees play in the greatest city in the world. So do the Mets. But the Mets have their fans so fucking brainwashed with their years and years of lowered expectations that to many Mets fans, the Mets might as well be playing in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

#truth

[Mex17]

Does the Commissioner have the power to veto trades using the "best interests of baseball" clause? I just tried googling for the answer and saw nothing.

I'm serious here. We don't know the players going back to Miami yet, but with that said, this cannot stand if it's going to be as lopsided as they say it is going to be. If I'm Manfred, I am telling both parties to find a way to get Judge in the deal or there is no deal.

Edited December 9, 2017 by Guest

[smg58]

From Stanton's perspective, he probably wanted to go somewhere where he didn't have to constantly worry about whether his team could afford the contract.

From the Marlin's perspective, given that Stanton missed a large chunk of two of the last three seasons, the risk of that contract becoming an albatross that would set the team back a decade was uncomfortably high. Plus, the chance to sell any higher on Stanton later on than they could do this offseason was basically zero. The question then becomes, what constitutes selling high?

The Yankees, of course, had to bear the unimaginable burden of almost making the playoffs in three of four seasons from 2013-2016 as a result of taking on contracts that became albatrosses. They'll worry about that when they need to.

[smg58]

Mex17 wrote: Mex17 wrote: Plus, I thought the entire point of Stanton playing hardball with his no-trade clause was because he wanted to orchestrate getting closer to Southern California if not directly back to LA. Why would you think that? Because I have heard for years that he would prefer to be on the West Coast.

The possibility of the media presenting narratives for years that turned out to be entirely wrong is too remote to even consider.

[Centerfield]

The “payroll doesn’t matter” bullshit is hardly limited to this forum. It’s rampant throughout the media and among pseudo intellectual half fans who think they are being cutting edge by saying “People don’t get it’s not about how much you spend. I’ve said it all along...it’s about spending wisely!”

[dgwphotography]

I hate baseball, and I hope this at least gets looked into by the commissioner's office..

[batmagadanleadoff]

Centerfield wrote: The “payroll doesn’t matter” bullshit is hardly limited to this forum. It’s rampant throughout the media and among pseudo intellectual half fans who think they are being cutting edge by saying “People don’t get it’s not about how much you spend. I’ve said it all along...it’s about spending wisely!”

Because if anyone's gonna figure out how to assemble a team that's twice as good as the Nats are, for a fraction of what the Nats spend on payroll, it's gonna be that baseball savant ...........



Jeff Wilpon.

[ashie62]

Yankees dump Jacoby Ellsbury and top prospect Estevan Florial for Stanton. Brett Gardner moves to CF.

I don't bu Hal S's payroll comments one bit.

[MFS62]

Mex17 wrote: Does the Commissioner have the power to veto trades using the "best interests of baseball" clause? I just tried googling for the answer and saw nothing.

I wondered the same thing.
And also found nothing.
Later

[Guest d'Kong76]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Two first place finishes since 1988. Three top tier free agent signings since free agency became the law of the land. And this from the team that plays in the exact same city that the Yankees do.

Preach on! Has nothing to do with the quality of the posters here nor the forum.

[metsmarathon]

mucking fets.

[ashie62]

MFS62 wrote: Mex17 wrote: Does the Commissioner have the power to veto trades using the "best interests of baseball" clause? I just tried googling for the answer and saw nothing. I wondered the same thing. And also found nothing. Later

A commish vetoed Charlie Finley's 70's attempt to sell player I believe. However I don't know about trades.

[ashie62]

Didn't realize it was a done deal. Starlin Castro and a few middling prospects and mabe Miami takes Ellsbury off the books.

The Sports-Industrial complex never ceases to amaze me.

[Lefty Specialist]

Ashie62 wrote: MFS62 wrote: Mex17 wrote: Does the Commissioner have the power to veto trades using the "best interests of baseball" clause? I just tried googling for the answer and saw nothing. I wondered the same thing. And also found nothing. Later A commish vetoed Charlie Finley's 70's attempt to sell player I believe. However I don't know about trades.

The A's tried selling off Joe Rudi and Sal Bando and Bowie Kuhn put a stop to it. But now the commissioner is beholden to the owners, not to the game itself, so this'll go through without a glance.

[Mex17]

Lefty Specialist wrote: Ashie62 wrote: MFS62 wrote: Mex17 wrote: Does the Commissioner have the power to veto trades using the "best interests of baseball" clause? I just tried googling for the answer and saw nothing. I wondered the same thing. And also found nothing. Later A commish vetoed Charlie Finley's 70's attempt to sell player I believe. However I don't know about trades. The A's tried selling off Joe Rudi and Sal Bando and Bowie Kuhn put a stop to it. But now the commissioner is beholden to the owners, not to the game itself, so this'll go through without a glance.

So there are 28 other owners out there who might not appreciate Jeter sending arguably the best player in the sport to his old team for a bag of balls, don't you think?

I don't think that I am too far off in saying that, in the short to intermediate term, the integrity of the game is on the line here.

[Edgy MD]

I ain't pointing fingers, but weren't folks not too long ago describing his contract as untouchable?

[Guest 41Forever]

Edgy MD wrote: I ain't pointing fingers, but weren't folks not too long ago describing his contract as untouchable?

I might have been one of them That’s an insane contract. I’m stunned they were able to move it without taking on several bad contracts in exchange. I’m stunned there were actually several teams willing to take it!

Is Sabbathia still on the Yankee payroll?

[Frayed Knot]

Does the commish have the power to veto a trade?
-- Yes, but he has no reason to veto this one. The Joe Rudi/Sal Bando deals were straight sales which is what got them banned. Kuhn essentially made up a retroactive limit for the sole purpose of killing those deals. But unless some team out there has evidence that Jeter was spurning other better deals in favor of this one then there's no there there. And even then you'd have to get by Stanton's approval.



Ellsbury -- Why in holy hell would the Marlins want Ellsbury?!?!?! That's the kind of WATP Yanqui fans come up with.
The whole purpose of dealing Stanton is to get rid of payroll not take bad ones in return.



Giants/Cardinals -- If the SF/StL rumors were just ginned up as pretend trades then the Cards & Gints were in on them too. Take off the tinfoil hats folks.



Sabathia -- Is a FA at the present time (and you could look it up)

[Frayed Knot]

And while I'm on the topic, how this works out is going to depend a lot on whether the Yanx get 2015 & 2017 version of Stanton where he clocked in 150 games/year and a 975 OPS
or the 2013-2014, 2016 model where he averaged 103 games/year at more like 850

Not that the lesser version represents a hole in the lineup or anything, but at $30 million per for the foreseeable future as he starts to get into his 30s it's like the situation we discussed this summer with Pujols and maybe even Miggy Cabrera depending on whether his 2017 season was an outlier or merely the direction of things to come.

[Centerfield]

The Yankees carried Alex Rodriguez’s salary this season. They seemed to do fine.

We can talk about these albatross contracts like ARod and AGon and try to comfort ourselves that way. But the fact of the matter is the guys guilty of these terrible deals were in the LCS and WS.

[Benjamin Grimm]

All we can do, other than lament, is hope that Stanton sucks.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Centerfield wrote: We can talk about these albatross contracts like ARod and AGon and try to comfort ourselves that way. But the fact of the matter is the guys guilty of these terrible deals were in the LCS and WS.

That's precisely the point! The point isn't necessarily that those contracts go bad in their final years. That's a calculated understood risk that the wealthy teams can afford to absorb. The point is that the Yankees are in the post-season virtually every single season. And so pointing out that some of those contracts went bad misses the point, entirely.

The Mets play in the same exact fucking city that the Yankees do. And while the Yankees are in the post-season virtually every single season, the Mets miss the post-season virtually every single season.

[Frayed Knot]

Sure (responding to CF's 3:34 post) this deal won't break them either way - even as it likely kills their oft stated goal of getting under the lux tax threshold meaning that it will restrict them in some other manner.

But this forum (and others) went through the same hair-tearing/all-is-lost/end of competitive baseball cries when ARod was dealt to a Yanqui team coming off four WS wins in a five year span, yet it resulted in just one WS win/appearance in 17 seasons since and they got multiple MVP years out of steroid boy who was both younger and better than Stanton.
In the meantime, Starlin Castro isn't a "bag of balls" and the Yanx have a deep farm system at the moment which (along with Stanton's approval) is what allowed them to pull off the deal.

So maybe Giancarlo will be the piece that puts them over the top or maybe they 'bought high' and he'll be a good though erratic, injured, and starting to age.
Time will tell.

Edited December 9, 2017 by Guest

[Centerfield]

I think you are missing the point.

The ARod contract went just as bad as everyone said it would. $21 million for a player over 40? Foolish.

But they got, for years, MVP caliber performance. Post seasons nearly every year. A World Championship. And when he was no longer able to perform, they spent more and got other players.

This is a win any way you slice it.

The reason everyone wanted ARod then is if the Mets ever had 17 year run like the Yankees just had it would absolutely be the Golden Era of this franchise.

Edited December 9, 2017 by Guest

[Guest 41Forever]

Frayed Knot wrote: Sabathia -- Is a FA at the present time (and you could look it up)

Casey! Nice.

[Frayed Knot]

Side note to all this, a "Met team source" said that the Mets will be contacting the Marlins about Starlin Castro once this rumored deal is complete.
THAT would certainly clear up any 2nd base questions for the next two seasons and it certainly wouldn't be unheard of for the Marlins to be looking to "Piazza-Off" Castro right after trading for him.

[Mex17]

Frayed Knot wrote: Ellsbury -- Why in holy hell would the Marlins want Ellsbury?!?!?! That's the kind of WATP Yanqui fans come up with. The whole purpose of dealing Stanton is to get rid of payroll not take bad ones in return.

Ellsbury's $68-ish million comes off the books in 2021 compared to the $295 million that Stanton is owed through 2028. $68 million is less than $295 million and 2021 is earlier than 2028, so there are your answers. Plus, in my deals, Judge and more were headed back to Miami in addition to Ellsbury.

That is how fire sale trades usually work. . .sometimes you take back a bad, albiet shorter term, contact in order to offset some of the cost to the acquiring tean and you almost always get back actual talent which is younger, less expensive, and team controllable that you use to build your own team back up again. Hardly any of that is supposedly happening here, and when you factor in the rather cozy relationship that Miami's pseudo-GM has with the team that is reaping this enormous benefit, and it should not be too hard to understand why this stinks to high heaven.

Edited December 9, 2017 by Guest

[Centerfield]

This is so typical Mets.

Everyone is pissed off that the Yankees got Stanton for dick.

Mets reaction. Hey! Maybe we can get dick!