seawolf17

But you have to say that, because you don't know for sure what else you could have gotten for him. You can't say "the Twins would have given the Mets Torii Hunter for MacLane," or whoever, because we'll never really know that. Not that trades happen in a vacuum, but they are what they are.

You can't compare Green to comparable OFs, because Evan MacLane wasn't going to get you Vlad Guerrero in a trade. MacLane for Green is a definite plus for the Mets.

Green Schneider/Estrada plus we no longer have Milledge. I don't see how this improves the team at all.

Omar must have been blinded by Church's Burrelllike line against the Mets last year: 13-41, 5 2B, 4 HR, 12 RBI, far and away his best numbers against any team last year. He was 10 for 25 at Shea.

Apparently, Brian Schneider is a member of the Pool.

iramets wrote: Kazmir. Bannister. Keppinger. I'm starting to think that maybe they're not the most astute judges of young talent, I really am. I hate agreeing with Sal. Although this only really resonates if they decide to trade Reyes.

I loved that time when he ran down the right-field line, high-fiving the fans. Loved it. We'll miss you, Lastings.

Brian and Jordan Schneider with Chris Young in Japan.

Wait! Maybe the Twins really wanted Church in a Santana deal, but couldn't match up with Washington!

Did you kick any of them in the gonads? I can think of at least one guy I'd like to kick in the gonads right now.

Wow. Awful. Either Milledge's stock has dropped that low, in which case, let him play this year -- even in AAA -- to see if he can get that stock back, or he ate Willie's dog. Effin A.

Sounds like something Tony LaRussa would do.

I don't know how to do html tables. Drives me kooky.

According to BBR... we'll look at MVPs first. Name, Rank, MVP Shares, MVP Wins Dave Parker 28 3.19 1978 Jim Rice 29 3.15 1978 Andre Dawson 65 2.36 1987 Dale Murphy 66 2.31 1982, 1983 Don Mattingly 74 2.22 1985 Mark McGwire 91 1.94 Alan Trammell 184 1.22 Tim Raines 236 0.99 Rich Gossage 248 0.95 David Justice 287 0.8 Dave Concepcion 410 0.52 Lee Smith 544 0.34 Harold Baines 592 0.29 Brady Anderson 743 0.18 Jack Morris 743 0.18 Tommy John 854 0.11 Bert Blyleven 909 0.09 Rod Beck 939 0.08 Chuck Knoblauch 1073 0.05 Robb Nen 1205 0.03 Jose Rijo 1205 0.03 Travis Fryman 1314 0.02 Shawon Dunston 0 Chuck Finley 0 Todd Stottlemyre 0 Parker surprised me. The only players who have been shown more love than Parker and Rice who are not HOFers: ARod, Frank Thomas, Pujols, Griffey, and Pete Rose. Piazza is tied with Parker, and Jeff Bagwell is right behind him. Going down, Vlad Guerrero (35th), Manny Ramirez (42nd) are probably likely HOFers if they keep it up; you have to get to David Ortiz and Gary Sheffield (52nd and 54th) before you start to get sketchy on HOF qualifications, although they probably will both have a case down the road. On the Cy: Rank, Cy Shares 51 0.92 Tommy John 66 0.73 Jack Morris 86 0.54 Lee Smith 98 0.45 Bert Blyleven 118 0.35 Rich Gossage 152 0.17 Jose Rijo 159 0.12 Robb Nen 256 0.01 Chuck Finley John surprised me; all his votes came in four years between 1977 and 1980 (2nd, 8th, 2nd, and 4th, respectively). Nice run, but not enough to overcome an otherwise Hall of Steadiness qualifications. Morris seems like a better candidate, getting votes in seven separate seasons between 1981 and 1992.

I think we should bring back Piazza, a la Minnie Minoso, every ten years until he dies.

metirish wrote: I think this is a great move by Omar, Andy Freed is coming with Stokes so it fills a few spots in the organization. He can replace Tom McCarthy! He's a legendary radio voice, he'll be perfect! Oh, wait... that's Alan Freed. And he died in the 60s. My bad.

Because he's only 28, and had decent minor league numbers. Who cares? It's not like they're immediately making him the #2 starter. You can't be outraged over a middle relief arm who gets picked up for probably nothing.

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Any time I've been asked to be in a wedding party, I've wished that Moises Alou was available to step in for me. Just make sure his hands don't touch the rings.

I think the Mets should go out and get Joe Castellano. Joe was the voice of the Red Wings while I worked for WHAM/WHTK in Rochester in the late 90's; he was a joy to listen to, and has had a pretty good run of success since then. According to Wikipedia, he works for XM now, doing the MLB late night weekday show. I'd love to hear Joe again; he was a great guy and a very good pbp man.

And for probably 25-30 of those guys, if you told me -- while they were still active -- that they weren't HOFers, I'd say you were full of crap.

I didn't think there was anything wrong with McCarthy; he was okay. No great shakes, but he was replacing something of a legend.

No, I'm agreeing with you that rings, in and of themselves, do not make a player Hall-worthy. (See O'Neill, Paul.) And Beckett's not a comparison yet, because he obviously doesn't have the career length that Morris had. You want numbers? Morris has numbers. During his prime (1979-1992 -- throw out his 45 IP in 78, and his end-of-career years in 93-94), he won 233 games... 41 MORE than any other pitcher. He completed 169 games... 62 MORE than any other pitcher. Even past his prime, in 1993, he went 21-6 for a championship Blue Jays team. Plus the rings, plus Game 7 in 1991, plus the AS games, plus thirteen straight Opening Day starts, plus the no-hitter, . On the Keltner list, Morris has an easy seven or eight of the items on the list, and probably more than that. He's a poor man's Bob Gibson.

I'd like to keep the full 500 players involved also.

I'm not going all Paul O'Neill here. I'm talking about Jack Morris. He won the 1984 and 1991 Serieses practically by himself: 5 starts, 4-0, 3 CGs, including this. Dude was dominant. Finley was never dominant.

="Nymr83"]if Chuck Finley is "1 & done" i don't see how Morris gets in, they had pretty similiar careers with Finley having a 10 point advantage in ERA+ and Morris having 800 more innings. neither really ever had a great peak. Blyleven had 1000 innings more than Morris (1800 on Finley) and 13 pts of ERA+ (3 on Finley) and HE is borderline (but i'd put him in) Finley and Morris are only similar in that they're pitchers who have six letters in their last name. Finley only got Cy Young votes ONCE in his career: one point, in 1990. Finley's not even close. Morris has three WS rings, five AS games (including two starts), seven years appearing on Cy ballots, five years appearing on MVP ballots. I'm with Valadius to a certain point... these guys should be recognized. I'm not saying you need to let Johnny Estrada into the Hall because he hit .300 once, but when the discussion involves guys who were dominant for a long time -- Morris, Raines, Rice, Dawson -- I don't see what the problem is.