Edgy MD

Jos� taught me that I don't particularly like reggaet�n music.

I disagree enormously that fans haven't heard anything but goodness about the Wilpons. I think the evidence is clear in this regard. My guess is this offer (they apparently made him a verbal offer, because there was reportedly never a formal one) came before Miami upped their package from 90 to 110. It would then make sense, if that's what Alderson is talking about, that Miami's guaranteed offer ended up in the same neighborhood as the Mets' contingent one. The guarantees were them topping the Mets.

I'm telling you. Find a Classic Rock Holiday Song countdown list and I'm all in. I'm kinda really done with "Welcome to the Machine."

I think the most nefarious version of events can be most appealing to folks when it comes to Fred Wilpon.

I'm pretty much kinda agreed. A bargain anyhow, though perhaps not laughable, but we all have different humor points.

Everybody, to some extent, is on a middle course.

It's a confounding job, building a baseball team. Pagan was perhaps the most outstanding Mets in 2010, and that performance for $5 millon would be a laughable bargain. But the Mets have no reason to expect a return to that level. Do they have a right to expect some bounceback however? Was any of it real? Was the defense an illusion? Would/should a team have non-tendered Tommie Agee after 1968?

Had everything going but his power stroke this season. And then I saw him take his show to Pittsburgh and suddenly, there was the power stroke. He seemed pretty confident he could get his bat on anything this year. And his strikeouts certainly divebombed. That's reason for the Fish to be confident. The other side of that coin is the funny periods where he didn't seem to have a clue what a strike was, and he seemed to come fresh from a tongue lashing from his batting coach when he would show his wilingness to take a pitch by occasionally picking a random pitch and deciding not to swing before it was delivered. He's keep his bat on his shoulder whether the count was advantageous or disadvantageous, follow the pitch to catcher's glove and turn inquisitively to the ump, waiting for the call. When the ump would signal strike or ball, Jose would seemingly make a mental note like, "Really? Is that what one of them looks like? I had no idea."

Megdal is also pimping a new anti-Wilpon book.

Regarding marathon, above: I guess so. I certainly thought the Mets were wrong in not making a higher offer than they did to Edgardo Alfonzo. I hoped he succeeded. But when he didn't, even though I felt modestly badly for him, I found it wasn't that hard to tip my hat to Steve Phillips. I can even now personally entertain scenarios where he wouldn't have floundered had he not left the Mets. I can attribute all his downward career trajectory to heartbreak and homesickness for the Mets and New York. It might even be true. But it's certainly far-fetched enough that I'm not going to hang my hat on it. So again, I tipped my hat to Steve Phillips. Even as I stick to my guns that you go higher to retain home-grown stars and honor the connection that the fanbase has with them. Steve F. Phillips. I know, right?

The zeal for rebuilding can get out of control, and lead to as many delusions as rooting for the team as currently composed.

Burgos and Schoeneweis --- there're two guys whose lives didn't turn out as expected.

Yeah, Vic's post is the one I'd've made if I didn't have a new job and stuff.

I disagree. Very easy to go there. Well, I had hoped "for me" was clearly implied. You're rooting for him to succeed, that's fine. You're rooting for him to fail, that's fine. As far rooting for him to succeed because you want there to be no way in the universe that this was the better choice in the situation, because what's important is not that he succeeds or fails, but that Wilpon is most deeply tarnished, it's hard (for me) to go there. You go crazy. But that's not what I'm in this for. I'm totally down with the notion that there should be a higher limit for a career Met star. And I realize I don't have kids for whom Jos� Reyes on the Mets is a lifetime fixture. But that's a bridge too far for me. I've mentioned this before, but a real firm, in the real world --- be they law, financial, or architecture --- when they came to an impasse, where they couldn't afford to retain a star employee, but couldn't afford to lose him or her, would upgrade their star from mere employee by offering him or her a partnership in the practice. MLB forbids this --- and I assume most professional leagues do --- but they shouldn't, and shouldn't be allowed to.

Hard to go there.

I think the news (still unofficial, but whatever) of this weekend makes Murphy and Turner at least 20% less tradeable this morning, as Tejada is now out of the mix at second. Signed Away By MiamiInfielders =#0000FF]7 Jos� Reyes DoB: 6/11/1983 Your Projected 2012 Mets (Orange Indicates Players Have Options) Starting Pitchers =#0000FF]43 R.A. Dickey DoB: 10/29/1974 =#FF8000]35 Dillon Gee DoB: 4/28/1986 =#0000FF]49 Jonathon Niese DoB: 10/27/1986 =#0000FF]34 Mike Pelfrey DoB: 1/14/1984 =#0000FF]57 Johan Santana DoB: 3/13/1979Relief Pitchers =#0000FF]46 Manny Acosta DoB: 5/1/1981 =#FF8000]27 Pedro Beato DoB: 10/27/1986 =#0000FF]40 Tim Byrdak DoB: 10/31/1973 =#0000FF]77 D.J. Carrasco DoB: 4/12/1977 =#0000FF]19 Danny Herrera DoB: 10/21/1984Relief Pitchers Catchers Infielders =#FF8000]64 Josh Stinson DoB: 3/14/1988 =#0000FF]39 Bobby Parnell DoB: 9/8/1984 =#0000FF]9 Ronny Paulino DoB: 4/21/1988 =#0000FF]30 Josh Thole DoB: 4/28/1986 =#FF8000]29 Ike Davis DoB: 3/22/1987 Infielders =#0000FF]28 Daniel Murphy DoB: 4/1/1985 =#0000FF]11 Ruben Tejada DoB: 10/27/1989 =#0000FF]2 Justin Turner DoB: 11/23/1984 =#FF8000]62 Jordany Valdespin DoB: 12/23/1984 =#0000FF]5 David Wright DoB: 12/20/1982 Outfielders =#FF8000]23 Mike Baxter DoB: 12/7/1984 =#0000FF]44 Jason Bay DoB: 9/20/1978 =#FF8000]21 Lucas Duda DoB: 2/3/1986 =#FF8000]26 Fernando Martinez DoB: 10/10/1988 =#0000FF]16 Angel Pagan DoB: 7/2/1981 Also on 40-Man Roster Starting Pitchers =#FF8000]50 =#0000FF]Robert Carson DoB:1/23/1989 =#FF8000]46 =#0000FF]Jeurys Familia DoB:10/10/1989 =#FF8000]32 Jennry Mejia DoB: 10/11/1989 =#FF8000]66 Armando Rodriguez DoB: 1/28/1988 =#FF8000]63 Chris Schwinden DoB: 9/22/1986 Catchers Infielders =#FF8000]13 Mike Nickeas DoB: 2/13/1983 =#FF8000]1 =#0000FF]Wilmer Flores DoB:8/6/1991 =#FF8000]12 =#0000FF]Reese Havens DoB:10/20/1986 =#FF8000]65 Zach Lutz DoB: 6/3/1986 =#FF8000]3 Josh Satin DoB: 12/23/1984Outfielders =#FF8000]13 =#0000FF]Juan Lagares DoB:3/17/1989 =#FF8000]11 =#0000FF]Kirk Nieuwenhuis DoB:8/7/1987 =#FF8000]22 =#0000FF]Cesar Puello DoB:4/1/1991 Also in Camp InfieldersOutfielders =#0000FF]15 Val Pascucci DoB:11/17/1978 =#FF8000]44 =#0000FF]Vinny Rottino DoB:4/7/1980 Free Agents Starting PitchersRelief Pitchers Outfielders =#0000FF]47 Miguel Batista DoB: 2/19/1971 =#0000FF]55 Chris Young DoB: 5/25/1979 =#0000FF]18 Ryota Igarashi DoB:5/28/1979 =#0000FF]45 Jason Isringhausen DoB: 9/7/1972 =#0000FF]12 Scott Hairston DoB: 5/25/1980 Outfielders =#0000FF]22 Willie Harris DoB: 6/22/1978 Minor League Free Agents: Minor League Free Agents Starting PitchersRelief Pitchers =#FF8000]28 Boof Bonser DoB: 10/14/1981 (AAA in 2011) W-L:0-0 Saves:0 G:1 GS:1 ERA2.45 IP:3.67 BB:2 SO:4 =#FF8000]93 Manny Alvarez DoB: 12/18/1985 (AA/AAA in 2011) W-L:0-2 Saves:1 G:9 GS:0 ERA8.10 IP:10.00 BB:0 SO:2 =#FF8000]10 Ricky Brooks DoB: 7/18/1984 (AA in 2011) W-L:2-8 Saves:1 G:53 GS:1 ERA3.95 IP:82.00 BB:21 SO:58 =#FF8000]33 Taylor Buchholz DoB:10/13/1981 (MLB in 2011) W-L:1-1 Saves:0 G:23 GS:0 ERA3.12 IP:26.00 BB:7 SO:26 =#FF8000]46 Gustavo Chacin DoB: 11/4/1980 (AAA in 2011) W-L:3-7 Saves:0 G:39 GS:10 ERA6.39 IP:81.67 BB:8 SO:10Relief Pitchers =#FF8000]39 Jos� De La Torre DoB:10/17/1985 (Rk/A-/AAA in 2011) W-L:2-2 Saves:0 G:22 GS:0 ERA0.99 IP:27.33 BB:16 SO:29 =#FF8000]63 Justin Hampson DoB: 5/24/1980 (AAA in 2011) W-L:3-3 Saves:1 G:52 GS:0 ERA3.41 IP:58 BB:16 SO:56 =#FF8000]49 John Lujan DoB: 5/10/1984 (AA/AAA in 2011) W-L:3-7 Saves:9 G:51 GS:1 ERA2.73 IP:69.33 BB:21 SO:66 =#FF8000]58 Brian Sweeney DoB: 6/13/1974 (AAA in 2011) W-L:5-5 Saves:1 G:32 GS:8 ERA4.34 IP:84.00 BB:22 SO:67 =#FF8000]57 Taylor Tankersley DoB: 3/7/1983 (AAA in 2011) W-L:1-1 Saves:0 G:48 GS:0 ERA5.79 IP:56.00 BB:37 SO:72Relief Pitchers CatchersInfielders Infielders =#FF8000]25 Gabriel Zavala DoB: 5/14/1987 (A in 2011) W-L:2-5 Saves:1 G:32 GS:0 ERA4.70 IP:44.00 BB:29 SO:36 =#FF8000]19 Raul Chavez DoB: 3/18/1973 (AAA in 2011) G:80 PA:256 HR:1 RBI:22 AVG:.199 OBP:.214 SLG:.253 OPS:.467 =#FF8000]6 Salomon Manriquez DoB: 9/15/1982 (AA/AAA in 2011) G:87 PA:265 HR:6 RBI:34 AVG:.268 OBP:.315 SLG:.396 OPS:.711 =#FF8000]32 Dusty Ryan DoB: 9/2/1984 (Rk/A+/AA/AAA in 2011) G:49 PA:191 HR:5 RBI:23 AVG:.252 OBP:.353 SLG:.442 OPS:.794 =#FF8000]92 Jose Coronado DoB: 4/13/1986 (A+/AA in 2011) G:76 PA:213 HR:1 RBI:11 AVG:.197 OBP:.289 SLG:.247 OPS:.536 Infielders Outfielders =#FF8000]3 Luis Figueroa DoB: 2/16/1974 (AAA in 2011) G:110 PA:442 HR:1 RBI:30 AVG:.294 OBP:.351 SLG:.369 OPS:.720 =#FF8000]25 Chin-lung Hu DoB:2/2/1984 (Rk/AAA/MLB in 2011) G:48 PA:112 HR:0 RBI:3 AVG:.160 OBP:.234 SLG:.180 OPS:.414 =#FF8000]71 Jonathan Malo DoB: 9/29/1983 (AA/AAA in 2011) G:94 PA:264 HR:3 RBI:16 AVG:.226 OBP:.290 SLG:.315 OPS:.604 =#FF8000]94 Niuman Romero DoB: 1/24/1985 (AA/AAA in 2011) G:75 PA:273 HR:0 RBI:23 AVG:.231 OBP:.294 SLG:.261 OPS:.555 =#FF8000]10 Bubba Bell DoB: 10/9/1982 (AA/AAA in 2011) G:81 PA:229 HR:2 RBI:23 AVG:.239 OBP:.292 SLG:.325 OPS:.617Outfielders =#FF8000]34 Jason Botts DoB:7/26/1980 (AAA in 2011) G:59 PA:201 HR:3 RBI:19 AVG:.268 OBP:.383 SLG:.405 OPS:.788 =#FF8000]97 Jesus Feliciano DoB:6/6/1979 (AAA in 2011) G:121 PA:437 HR:4 RBI:39 AVG:.268 OBP:.328 SLG:.334 OPS:.662 =#FF8000]21 Fernando Perez DoB:4/23/1983 (AAA in 2011) G:116 PA:414 HR:4 RBI:25 AVG:.223 OBP:.307 SLG:.310 OPS:.618 Coaching Staff ManagerBench CoachBatting CoachPitching CoachThird Base Coach =#0000FF]10 Terry Collins DoB: 5/27/1949 =#FF8000]57 Bob Geren DoB: 9/22/1959 =#0000FF]52 Dave Hudgens DoB: 12/5/1956 =#0000FF]59 Dan Warthan DoB: 12/1/1952 =#FF8000]81 =#0000FF]Tim Teufel DoB: 7/7/1958First Base CoachBullpen CoachBullpen CatchersHead Trainer =#FF8000]55 =#0000FF]Tom Goodwin DoB: 8/27/1968 =#FF8000]56 =#0000FF]Ricky Bones DoB: 4/7/1969 =#0000FF]53 Eric Langill DoB: 4/9/1979 =#0000FF]54 Dave Racaniello DoB: 10/15/1981 =#0000FF] Ray Ramirez =#BF8080].Assistant Trainer =#0000FF] Brian Chicklo

I don't think the group needed Allen to be worthy of discussion. But he was certainly better than Allie Reynolds. Dozens of others on the outside were also.

Yeah, that's an interesting memory. Went an Ord��ezian .205 / .279 / .333 // .612 down the stretch that year.

Which I didn't do. I listed it as a reason why it might happen in this go-round, not why it should happen. I'd be happy to discuss why it should happen.

I don't think psychological manipulation works when you use it on yourself.

I'm more concerned about his collectivism. CAIN IN 2012!

Yeah, you replace Wright with Murphy, you not only lose the difference between them, but you lose thet half-to-two-thirds of secondbase play that you're hoping for from Murphy, plus your backup firstbaseman/pinch-hitter, thirdbaseman, and maybe-leftfielder. It's like, you're not really replacing Wright with Muprhy, but with chunks of Turner and/or Valdespin or somebody.

Vic Sage wrote: Edgy DC wrote: If he's got to go, it'll be an issue of his affordability, or an overwhelming offer. We'll see. But starting from the must-be-dealt position undercuts a team's perspective and contaminates everything. i'm not saying he "must" be dealt. i don't even think he "must" be dealt. I'm saying it would be a good idea, after next season, if he's recovered some or much of his value, to cash in on it and sell high (for a change), and turn him into some blue chippers. Because he's the only significant asset we have to deal, and by the time we're any good, he's likely to be past his peak. Well, that's not the title of this thread.

Number two active guy is... Pagan? Murphy?