Edgy MD

A lot of talk churning about the Tigers being on the stalk for Reyes. I clicked back through several articles and they all spring from this one tweet.

Other Mets who I think didn't get a spot on the ballot: [list:1ne0zja2][*:1ne0zja2]Rey Ord��ez (nine seasons, three GGs, fifth in RoY)[/*:m:1ne0zja2] [*:1ne0zja2]Bernard Gilkey (12 seasons, 14th place finish in MVP in 1996)[/*:m:1ne0zja2] [*:1ne0zja2]Lance Johnson (14 seasons, one ASG, 18th place finishin MVP in 1996)[/*:m:1ne0zja2] [*:1ne0zja2]Darryl Hamilton (13 seasons, three-time leader in fielding percentage among centerfielders)[/*:m:1ne0zja2][/list:u:1ne0zja2] Things have just gone to blazes.

Golden Era Committee Members. Here we go: Players and Managers from the Hall: Hank Aaron, Al Kaline, Ralph Kiner, Tommy Lasorda, Juan Marichal, Brooks Robinson, Don Sutton, and Billy Williams. Major League Executives: Paul Beeston (lifetime with Blue Jays, currently their CEO), Bill DeWitt (managing partner and chairman of the Orioles, exec in Bush Administration, son of former Browns owner), Roland Hemond (Diamondbacks, Angels, White Sox, Orioles), Gene Michael(Yankees, Yankees, Yankees --- but also played for the Tigers, Pirates, and Dodgers, and managed the Cubs), and Al Rosen (career Indian, but executive for the Yankees, Astros, and Giants). Media Members: Dick Kaegel (Royals writer, cancer survivor), Jack O'Connell (covered the Mets in the 80s with the News and the Record and the Yankees with the Hartford Courant in the 90s), and Dave Van Dyck (Chicago Trib, has supported Jack Morris over Bert Blyleven, for whatever that's worth). That's a tough group, I think, with a mixture of loyalties. I think Kiner and Lasorda are solid votes. Maybe O'Connell absorbed enough during his tenure in New York. Hopefully Brooks Robinson came away from the 1969 series impressed, and Don Sutton can be buttonholed by his old manager. It's still seven more votes to get to 12. Williams is probably going to put a higher priority on a longtime teammate like Santo, even though the 1960s Cubs already have three Hallers and never won anything. Maybe they'll trade support. Will Dominican Dandy Marichal have any stake in Cuban Comet Minnie Minoso or El Tiante? Lone Latino on the committee, he. Will Yankee execs like Rosen and Michael throw support to the likes of Kaat and/or Reynolds? Stay tuned.

Golden Era Committee Members. Here we go: Players and Managers from the Hall: Hank Aaron, Al Kaline, Ralph Kiner, Tommy Lasorda, Juan Marichal, Brooks Robinson, Don Sutton, and Billy Williams. Major League Executives: Paul Beeston (lifetime with Blue Jays, currently their CEO), Bill DeWitt (managing partner and chairman of the Orioles, exec in Bush Administration, son of former Browns owner), Roland Hemond (Diamondbacks, Angels, White Sox, Orioles), Gene Michael(Yankees, Yankees, Yankees --- but also played for the Tigers, Pirates, and Dodgers, and managed the Cubs), and Al Rosen (career Indian, but executive for the Yankees, Astros, and Giants). Media Members: Dick Kaegel (Royals writer, cancer survivor), Jack O'Connell (covered the Mets in the 80s with the News and the Record and the Yankees with the Hartford Courant in the 90s), and Dave Van Dyck (Chicago Trib, has supported Jack Morris over Bert Blyleven, for whatever that's worth).

I'm a sucker, I know, but I'm thinking it's a really good chance for Gil Hodges to make the Hall of Fame right now. He's being reviewed with a field of 10 candidates by a 16-member committee, also including Ron Santo, Allie Reynolds, Jim Kaat, Luis Tiant, Buzzie Bavasi, Charlie Finley, Ken Boyer, Minnie Minoso, and Tony Oliva. Upside: All, I think, have their arguments, except for Allie Reynolds, who couldn't hold Jerry Koosman's glove, and are among the most serious candidacies when historians review who has been overlooked. But I think history would suggest that Hodges, Santo, and Oliva would top that list. I think Hodges and Santo, for different reasons, have a history of being liked by everyone. But Hodges was liked as a leader, and Santo as a character, so that might help him. Nolan Ryan has joined Tom Seaver in actively campaigning for Hodges. Seaver and Ryan were overwhelmingly elected, suggesting electors have their respect, and their opinions mean something. I don't know who's on that committee, but I know Tommy Lasorda is one of them, and he's endorsed Hodges in the past, actually played with the guy, and loves to pimp the Dodger blue. Nobody's come as close without getting in as Hodges, getting 60% of the BBWAA vote thrice and 50% 11 times. Folks seem to have come around to the understanding of the veteran ballot instruction to consider candidates' playing careers together with their coaching, managerial, executive, scouting and/or umpiring careers. Probably the last chance to vote him in while Joan is on the planet. Downside: Lasorda can be annoying, and his support may get marginalized under the notion that he's pimping the Dodger blue. Seaver has endorsed Hodges strongly, but never strategically, like giving a dozen interviews in the weeks leading up to vote. Get on the stump, Tom. Sixteen old dudes is a big group to bully into a consensus. Announcement coming Monday.

dgwphotography wrote: Saying that his good years were easily the best years of any second baseman in Mets history isn't really saying much.. Yes it is saying much. The team is 50 years old. And it it's my team, it makes sense to make judgments about "the love" in that context. dgwphotography wrote: ....considering we never really had any one approaching Rogers Hornsby there. Is that to be our standard for appreciating players? Rogers Hornsby had 127.8 win shares in his career. Darryl Strawberry (I think) leads all Mets offensive players with 37.7. I think we can all agree that Edgardo Alfonzo does not tower over history as a Lord of Baseball. But come on. dgwphotography wrote: I think that's the issue - he looks so much better than anyone else there, because we really never had anyone that great there. Or anywhere, apparently. Why love at all? dgwphotography wrote: Actually, he started going down hill when he was "27". He had 2, maybe 3 "good" years out of 8 in NY. What's with the crazy quotes?

There is. They take anybody who plays ten years or more in the bigs, and then eliminate only those who spent the vast majority as reserves, or possibly bullpen backenders. But those are few, and probably over 90% of those who clear the 10-year criterion make the ballot.

Career WAR, as per BB-R.com: Tony Womack: 1.2 Eric Young: 17.0 Edgardo Alfonzo: 28.4

Because: [list:1boggrah][*:1boggrah]His "good" years were in fact easily the best years of any secondbaseman in Mets history. (And he has a significant legacy at third, too.)[/*:m:1boggrah] [*:1boggrah]The only evidence of him being older was him being foreign and fading in his early thirties. (Nor would that negate his legacy.)[/*:m:1boggrah] [*:1boggrah]He wasn't the only athlete in history to carry extra weight. It happens. Nor did his weight only appear later in his career.[/*:m:1boggrah][/list:u:1boggrah] If you think that's the sum total of the Alfonzo story, you're not being fair. Why the love for any of them?

And while I don't expect much more than a partisan sports column from a partisan TV host, KO is a SABR member and should know better. Instead he starts with the conclusion and looks only at the facts that will get him there. We have enough such sportswriting in the world.

My real disappointment that day in Valentine wasn't so much his failure of tactics, but rather his failure in gamesmanship --- a talent that had come to appear to be an asset but on this night he was outgamed by a troll like Clemens. Clemens had to be ejected, but the umps were too stunned and confused to throw the switch instantly and after that were in recovery mode. Valentine needed to find some way --- with six umps to appeal to and Dean of Discipline Frank Robinson in the box seats near the (I think) first base dugout --- to get Clemens (justifiably) tossed. Whether that meant going apeshit crazy, whether that meant taking your argument individually to each of the six umps, forcing them to eventually confab and make the decision together, whether that meant an unprecedented appeal to Robinson, whether that meant pulling his team off the field and risking a forfeit, he needed to press the point to the brink. Valentine's priority was keeping Piazza in the game and (sadly and vainly, I think) keeping himself in. And in such, he backed down from Clemens' brinkmanship. Clemens was eventually fined well beyond a level of folks who actually are thrown out of games, so all of baseball officialdom knew they were wrong. Bobby needed to force them to acknowledge it then and there. Bobby wasn't willing to sacrifice himself. He wasn't willing to sacrifice NLCS MVP Mike Hampton, and so Clemens had him over a barrel and so was rewarded for his villainy. And so, yeah, I was disappointed in Valentine, but I'm not sure which manager would have done better. The real failure there was the umps, and maybe Robinson not making the bold stroke of superseding them and ordering an ejection.

Truly true, and the third-round pick is nothing also. Just a disappointing turn of events, and goofy, since Heath Bell is worth more.

Mets get butt for compensation if Reyes signs with Miami.

themetfairy wrote: Workmanlike. Good but not great. Likable enough, but I'm not sure I'll notice enough to miss him. I think that's what these threads are good for. Getting our memories recorded before they pass along with the player's tenure.

Expectations of eleven.

Great call by centerfield.

Good to see somebody throwing that change at Cappy besides the Mets, but they're obviously going to have to bring in some veteran competition for Gee. Really good news for Pelfrey. If two years and 10 mills is the price of a Capuano, the Mets really can't not tender a controlled offer to Mike. Signed Away By Los AngelesStarting Pitchers =#0000FF]38 Chris Capuano DoB: 8/19/1978 Your Projected 2012 Mets (Orange Indicates Players Have Options) Starting Pitchers =#0000FF]43 R.A. Dickey DoB: 10/29/1974 =#FF8000]35 Dillon Gee DoB: 4/28/1986 =#0000FF]49 Jonathon Niese DoB: 10/27/1986 =#0000FF]34 Mike Pelfrey DoB: 1/14/1984 =#0000FF]57 Johan Santana DoB: 3/13/1979Relief Pitchers =#0000FF]46 Manny Acosta DoB: 5/1/1981 =#FF8000]27 Pedro Beato DoB: 10/27/1986 =#0000FF]40 Tim Byrdak DoB: 10/31/1973 =#0000FF]77 D.J. Carrasco DoB: 4/12/1977 =#0000FF]19 Danny Herrera DoB: 10/21/1984Relief Pitchers Catchers Infielders =#FF8000]64 Josh Stinson DoB: 3/14/1988 =#0000FF]39 Bobby Parnell DoB: 9/8/1984 =#0000FF]9 Ronny Paulino DoB: 4/21/1988 =#0000FF]30 Josh Thole DoB: 4/28/1986 =#FF8000]29 Ike Davis DoB: 3/22/1987 Infielders =#0000FF]28 Daniel Murphy DoB: 4/1/1985 =#0000FF]11 Ruben Tejada DoB: 10/27/1989 =#0000FF]2 Justin Turner DoB: 11/23/1984 =#FF8000]62 Jordany Valdespin DoB: 12/23/1984 =#0000FF]5 David Wright DoB: 12/20/1982 Outfielders =#FF8000]23 Mike Baxter DoB: 12/7/1984 =#0000FF]44 Jason Bay DoB: 9/20/1978 =#FF8000]21 Lucas Duda DoB: 2/3/1986 =#FF8000]26 Fernando Martinez DoB: 10/10/1988 =#0000FF]16 Angel Pagan DoB: 7/2/1981 Also on 40-Man Roster Starting Pitchers =#FF8000]50 =#0000FF]Robert Carson DoB:1/23/1989 =#FF8000]46 =#0000FF]Jeurys Familia DoB:10/10/1989 =#FF8000]32 Jennry Mejia DoB: 10/11/1989 =#FF8000]66 Armando Rodriguez DoB: 1/28/1988 =#FF8000]63 Chris Schwinden DoB: 9/22/1986 Catchers Infielders =#FF8000]13 Mike Nickeas DoB: 2/13/1983 =#FF8000]1 =#0000FF]Wilmer Flores DoB:8/6/1991 =#FF8000]12 =#0000FF]Reese Havens DoB:10/20/1986 =#FF8000]65 Zach Lutz DoB: 6/3/1986 =#FF8000]3 Josh Satin DoB: 12/23/1984Outfielders =#FF8000]13 =#0000FF]Juan Lagares DoB:3/17/1989=#0000FF] =#FF8000]11 =#0000FF]Kirk Nieuwenhuis DoB:8/7/1987=#FF8000] =#FF8000]22 =#0000FF]Cesar Puello DoB:4/1/1991 Also in Camp InfieldersOutfielders =#0000FF]15 Val Pascucci DoB:11/17/1978 =#FF8000]44 =#0000FF]Vinny Rottino DoB:4/7/1980 Free Agents Starting PitchersRelief Pitchers =#0000FF]47 Miguel Batista DoB: 2/19/1971 =#0000FF]55 Chris Young DoB: 5/25/1979 =#0000FF]18 Ryota Igarashi DoB:5/28/1979 =#0000FF]45 Jason Isringhausen DoB: 9/7/1972 =#0000FF]7 Jos� Reyes DoB: 6/11/1983 Outfielders=#0000FF] =#0000FF]12 Scott Hairston DoB: 5/25/1980 =#0000FF]22 Willie Harris DoB: 6/22/1978 Minor League Free Agents: Minor League Free Agents Starting PitchersRelief Pitchers =#FF8000]28 Boof Bonser DoB: 10/14/1981 (AAA in 2011) W-L:0-0 Saves:0 G:1 GS:1 ERA2.45 IP:3.67 BB:2 SO:4 =#FF8000]93 Manny Alvarez DoB: 12/18/1985 (AA/AAA in 2011) W-L:0-2 Saves:1 G:9 GS:0 ERA8.10 IP:10.00 BB:0 SO:2 =#FF8000]10 Ricky Brooks DoB: 7/18/1984 (AA in 2011) W-L:2-8 Saves:1 G:53 GS:1 ERA3.95 IP:82.00 BB:21 SO:58 =#FF8000]33 Taylor Buchholz DoB:10/13/1981 (MLB in 2011) W-L:1-1 Saves:0 G:23 GS:0 ERA3.12 IP:26.00 BB:7 SO:26 =#FF8000]46 Gustavo Chacin DoB: 11/4/1980 (AAA in 2011) W-L:3-7 Saves:0 G:39 GS:10 ERA6.39 IP:81.67 BB:8 SO:10Relief Pitchers =#FF8000]39 Jos� De La Torre DoB:10/17/1985 (Rk/A-/AAA in 2011) W-L:2-2 Saves:0 G:22 GS:0 ERA0.99 IP:27.33 BB:16 SO:29 =#FF8000]63 Justin Hampson DoB: 5/24/1980 (AAA in 2011) W-L:3-3 Saves:1 G:52 GS:0 ERA3.41 IP:58 BB:16 SO:56 =#FF8000]49 John Lujan DoB: 5/10/1984 (AA/AAA in 2011) W-L:3-7 Saves:9 G:51 GS:1 ERA2.73 IP:69.33 BB:21 SO:66 =#FF8000]58 Brian Sweeney DoB: 6/13/1974 (AAA in 2011) W-L:5-5 Saves:1 G:32 GS:8 ERA4.34 IP:84.00 BB:22 SO:67 =#FF8000]57 Taylor Tankersley DoB: 3/7/1983 (AAA in 2011) W-L:1-1 Saves:0 G:48 GS:0 ERA5.79 IP:56.00 BB:37 SO:72Relief Pitchers CatchersInfielders Infielders =#FF8000]25 Gabriel Zavala DoB: 5/14/1987 (A in 2011) W-L:2-5 Saves:1 G:32 GS:0 ERA4.70 IP:44.00 BB:29 SO:36 =#FF8000]19 Raul Chavez DoB: 3/18/1973 (AAA in 2011) G:80 PA:256 HR:1 RBI:22 AVG:.199 OBP:.214 SLG:.253 OPS:.467 =#FF8000]6 Salomon Manriquez DoB: 9/15/1982 (AA/AAA in 2011) G:87 PA:265 HR:6 RBI:34 AVG:.268 OBP:.315 SLG:.396 OPS:.711 =#FF8000]32 Dusty Ryan DoB: 9/2/1984 (Rk/A+/AA/AAA in 2011) G:49 PA:191 HR:5 RBI:23 AVG:.252 OBP:.353 SLG:.442 OPS:.794 =#FF8000]92 Jose Coronado DoB: 4/13/1986 (A+/AA in 2011) G:76 PA:213 HR:1 RBI:11 AVG:.197 OBP:.289 SLG:.247 OPS:.536 Infielders Outfielders =#FF8000]3 Luis Figueroa DoB: 2/16/1974 (AAA in 2011) G:110 PA:442 HR:1 RBI:30 AVG:.294 OBP:.351 SLG:.369 OPS:.720 =#FF8000]25 Chin-lung Hu DoB:2/2/1984 (Rk/AAA/MLB in 2011) G:48 PA:112 HR:0 RBI:3 AVG:.160 OBP:.234 SLG:.180 OPS:.414 =#FF8000]71 Jonathan Malo DoB: 9/29/1983 (AA/AAA in 2011) G:94 PA:264 HR:3 RBI:16 AVG:.226 OBP:.290 SLG:.315 OPS:.604 =#FF8000]94 Niuman Romero DoB: 1/24/1985 (AA/AAA in 2011) G:75 PA:273 HR:0 RBI:23 AVG:.231 OBP:.294 SLG:.261 OPS:.555 =#FF8000]10 Bubba Bell DoB: 10/9/1982 (AA/AAA in 2011) G:81 PA:229 HR:2 RBI:23 AVG:.239 OBP:.292 SLG:.325 OPS:.617Outfielders =#FF8000]34 Jason Botts DoB:7/26/1980 (AAA in 2011) G:59 PA:201 HR:3 RBI:19 AVG:.268 OBP:.383 SLG:.405 OPS:.788 =#FF8000]97 Jesus Feliciano DoB:6/6/1979 (AAA in 2011) G:121 PA:437 HR:4 RBI:39 AVG:.268 OBP:.328 SLG:.334 OPS:.662 =#FF8000]21 Fernando Perez DoB:4/23/1983 (AAA in 2011) G:116 PA:414 HR:4 RBI:25 AVG:.223 OBP:.307 SLG:.310 OPS:.618 Coaching Staff ManagerBench CoachBatting CoachPitching CoachThird Base Coach =#0000FF]10 Terry Collins DoB: 5/27/1949 =#FF8000]57 Bob Geren DoB: 9/22/1959 =#0000FF]52 Dave Hudgens DoB: 12/5/1956 =#0000FF]59 Dan Warthan DoB: 12/1/1952 =#FF8000]81 =#0000FF]Tim Teufel DoB: 7/7/1958First Base CoachBullpen CoachBullpen CatchersHead Trainer =#FF8000]55 =#0000FF]Tom Goodwin DoB: 8/27/1968 =#FF8000]56 =#0000FF]Ricky Bones DoB: 4/7/1969 =#0000FF]53 Eric Langill DoB: 4/9/1979 =#0000FF]54 Dave Racaniello DoB: 10/15/1981 =#0000FF] Ray Ramirez =#BF8080].Assistant Trainer=#0000FF]=#0000FF] =#0000FF] Brian Chicklo=#0000FF]=#0000FF]

Nice to have you back, NYMR.

No, that's not all you're saying. You're saying stuff like, "It's not really much different than what Johan Santana did, although presumably they were both sober and the evidence that she was unwilling in that case is seemingly less substantial, not that those things matter."

I'm saying what I'm saying. That what you say doesn't matter to you matters to the state and federal courts.

Well sheesh, it matters to courts. Evidence of consent also matters too. A lot.

Ceetar wrote: And I've got no problem if others find they can't root for him, although I think Michael Vick (and plenty of other characters across sports history) is a fair example of how ultimately these types of things are off the field news bytes and when it's go time, it's mostly forgotten. Particularly when you're winning. (Nevermind that 99% of Rays fans will never know about it, since most sports fans aren't paying attention to the personal life stuff) But maybe I'm just a callous person that doesn't really care about other people i don't know and/or assume everyone else I'm rooting for has probably done similar stuff and just didn't get caught. Not ruling that out. It's not really much different than what Johan Santana did, although presumably they were both sober and the evidence that she was unwilling in that case is seemingly less substantial, not that those things matter. Of course they matter. What the heck?

No, I certainly don't.

So he did.