Frayed Knot

Ted Lilly apparently down to the Cubs and Yanx as Jays have dropped out. Cubs have offered 4 yrs; Yanx will meet w/him to counter. Kind of interesting in that supposedly the reason the Yanx bid on that other Japanese pitcher (Igawa?) is that his $25mil would NOT be subject to the LuxTax (now at 40% for all additions to NYY payroll) and they could pay him at less than market rates to be their #5-type starter. Now, if they go through on Lilly, it's maybe a sign that they're not as sure on the Japanese guy as $30-some mil payout would indicate. Also a sign that they're not buying this notion about Pettitte maybe coming back.

In Cliffy's case, not offerring him arbitration pretty much signaled the club's intentions even though it no longer officially ends things, and the Alou signing was the action which really put the cherry on it.

And the winner of the coaching sweepstakes is .... HoJo !!

Yanx have talked about trying to get him actually. They need a 1st baseman (pref a RH hitter) to both backup Giambi and keep him off 1st base as much as possible. He'd be a good fit there ... which is why I'm hoping it doesn't happen of course.

The thing about Bannister is that he was never really considered hot prospect material despite getting lumped in with the rest of "the kids" in the minds of some fans. Only a 7th round draft pick - and as a college senior at that - he made some nice progress thru the minor league system and, I think, surprised mgmt by getting as far as he got so quickly. I just don't get the idea that anyone ever thought his ceiling was all that high. Would have been nice to see what he could have done if not injured last year. Maybe he would have settled down and got hisself a full-time spot in the rotation - or, instead, maybe fallen on his face and made us burn someone else in this trade.

]LF, if you want a guy for 2-3 years at under $5m/yr, it ain't gonna be Lugo. Agreed. I didn't particularly want him unless I could get him at a reduced rate which wasn't going to happen in this market. My only point from earlier is that Vidro's kind of in the same bucket right now; priced higher than the upgrade he'd be likely to provide.

68 BBs over 137 IPs is not a few walks. Looks like we got us an untamed colt. But it also sounds like he could be real good once broken in.

]Different time, different era in terms of use of discretionary income. But the TV ratings - which is basically your only ammo once we brush aside these sepia-toned phony "memories" of the good ol' days that never were - AREN'T a result of different times, different factors? Computers, on-demand movies, 200 channels, and a multitude of other sports & entertainment choices be damned: TV ratings are down therefore baseball must be dying, there's no other answer!! Y'see, this is an example (another one actually) of your bullshit tactic of coming up with the answer first and then cherry-picking and bending evidence to retro-fit your conclusion. Gee, Monday Night Football ratings are a fraction of where they once were to the point where the network was losing millions on it (as the networks do on the Sunday packages btw) and shifted the whole deal to their cable baby brother. Oh yeah, and the NFL expanded their season, first to 16 games and then to 16 games over 17 weeks (they even tried 18) and expanded their playoffs for the sole reason of making the networks happy or else accept a smaller right package ($$) had they not done so and couldn't bear the PR hit they would have taken for that ... therefore, Football is a dying sport too!!! See how much fun this is? ]Also wasn't that low attendance often attributed to it being one of the High Holy Days for the Jewish faith? No.

I still think that's high and long (and gone!!) but it does make more sense for a team that needs a full-time SS than for a team (Us!) that wants someone to share 2B

]Oh lets see, were there empty seats at Yankee Stadium's afternoon ALDS game this past October? No, but there were close to 20,000 empty seats watching "the shot heard round the world" ... so I guess it was a dying sport more than 1/2 century ago too. Geez, Rasputin didn't die this slowly!

Gotta get those walks down.

Ambiorix Burgos -- turns 23 next April Here's Baseball Prospectus' write-up (from a year ago): Has more in common with Armando Benitez than just his initials. He throws two pitches: an upper-90s fastball and a fall-off-the-table splitter. Once he was moved to the pen and encouraged to focus on those pitches, he was so dominant in AA that he was brought to KC before the end of April ('05). He weathered a strained shoulder and a brief return to AA quite well. Burgos will be challenging Bobby Jenks for the title of best young closer in the division before long. Keep in mind, he's 3 years younger than Jenks and not shaped like a beer barrel. That Armando comparison will simultaneously encourage and frighten Met fans.

If you're going to attempt to construct some sort of logical argument you're going to have to stay away from your strategy of "proof" by selectively choosing those individual anecdotes which fit your pre-determined conclusion - especially when many of them aren't close to accurate. If you're going to cite those cities where turnstile counts are lagging how about comparing them to how the bottom feeders were drawing from your so-called golder era - y'know, the one where you claim that every fan knew every thing about every player.

I see no reason for Lugo to be considered so unique or desirable to warrant that kind of contract. The reports seemed to be a bit hazy over whether or not those numbers were being discussed or actually offered. Personally, I'd consider something about half that long at half that rate (like 2x$5). And, as usual, the reports are loaded with all kinds of asides about Minaya's ongoing man-love for Lugo. I don't know if there's any other GM who so consistently gets tagged with this rep that there are players that he's powerless to resist as if these shiny baubles dangled in front of him send him into some sort of trance. Not quite sure what he did to earn this rep - although maybe it noteworthy that almost all these supposed obsessions are Latin: Lugo, Manny, Vazquez, etc.

Now that the two sides have apparently met (at least w/Boras) it's probably a good idea to give this topic it's own thread as we follow the trials & tribulations of this soap opera which probably won't end anytime soon. Starting with the excerpt from Jayson Stark's blog from the other thread: The Mets and Barry Zito's agent, Scott Boras, haven't talked money yet. But they clearly have a major philosophical difference about the potential length of Zito's contract, according to a source who spoke with both Boras and Mets GM Omar Minaya. Boras has told teams that Zito's deal needs to be at least six years. But the Mets don't want to go beyond four years. And it's nearly impossible to envision them extending past five years. This could be a gigantic obstacle, but an official of another team that has kicked Zito's tires said Tuesday: "I wouldn't believe any of that talk. I still think the Mets will do whatever it takes to get Zito, despite what everyone is saying now." • Another source who has spoken with the Mets advises us to discount reports that the club is actively pursuing Miguel Batista or any other free-agent starter besides Zito. The Mets were interested in Vicente Padilla before he re-signed with Texas. But with him off the board, the Mets are "not in on Batista or any of those guys at this time," the source said. "The only guy they have high-level interest in right now is [Zito]." Which seems like more confirmation that the Mets remain Zito's most likely destination. • No agent is more famous for overplaying his hand than Boras. So one GM joked last week that Boras had so little interest going in Zito this year that, other than the Mets, "it's all mystery teams. Usually, with Scott, you have four or five real teams and one mystery team. This year, it's one real team and all the rest are mystery teams." But that has changed since the meetings began. The Rangers, Mariners and Angels are all "definitely in" on Zito, according to one club that has been talking to Boras. However, Boras could be running into similar roadblocks with two of those teams that he has run into with the Mets. Because both Texas and Seattle are wary of being used to drive up some other team's price tag, neither wants to offer a contract longer than four years. The Angels' intentions are a little more mysterious. But one executive wondered "if they have any money left, after giving their center fielder (Gary Matthews Jr.) $50 million."

Sabean obviously decides that his Gigantes are not yet old enough or slow enough.

Seeing as how I've been hearing about the death of baseball since at least the time I was hearing about the death of Paul McCartney - and with about as much accuracy - forgive me if this issue doesn't get me too excited. Plus, the whole baseball v football argument is a lot like the ones cat & dog owners have which each other about which species is smarter. In both cases, each side loads up on examples which are unique strengths of that particular sport/critter all of which shows nothing more profound than the discovery that dogs are much better at being dogs than cats are and vice versa.

"I don't recall Frost putting anything new out after 1975" Slacker

Vidro's not necc DONE done, just no longer a $8mil/yr - more than Matsui money - more than double Valentin money - kinda guy. For only 7 HRs w/a decent tho hardly great OPB (.350) and an aging & rapidly slowing body he'd better either come with a significant discount or at a small price in bodies in order to pick up the whole freight. Otherwise ... pass.

1982RANKINGSPOINTSPLAYER30Mookie Wilson29Jesse Orosco28Dave Kingman27Craig Swan26Neil Allen25George Foster24Pete Falcone23John Stearns22Ed Lynch21Hubie Brooks20Pat Zachry19Ellis Valentine18Charlie Puleo17Bob Bailor16Randy Jones15Ron Gardenhire14Wally Backman13Ron Hodges12Joel Youngblood11Terry Leach10Rick Ownbey9Rusty Staub8Mike Scott7Mike Jorgensen6Scott Holman5Tom Hausman4Gary Rajisch3Tom Veryzer2Doug Sisk1Bruce Bochy1982 RankingsPOINTSPLAYER 30Mookie Wilson29Jesse Orosco28Dave Kingman27Craig Swan26Neil Allen25George Foster24Pete Falcone23John Stearns22Ed Lynch21Hubie Brooks20Pat Zachry19Ellis Valentine18Charlie Puleo17Bob Bailor16Randy Jones15Ron Gardenhire14Wally Backman13Ron Hodges12Joel Youngblood11Terry Leach10Rick Ownbey9Rusty Staub8Mike Scott7Mike Jorgensen6Scott Holman5Tom Hausman4Gary Rajsich3Tom Veryzer2Doug Sisk1Bruce Bochy

1981RANKINGSPOINTSPLAYER30Dave Kingman29Hubie Brooks28Neil Allen27Joel Youngblood26Rusty Staub25John Stearns24Mookie Wilson23Lee Mazzilli22Doug Flynn21Mike Scott20Ed Lynch19Pete Falcone18Ellis Valentine17Pat Zachry16Frank Tavares15Tom Hausman14Terry Leach13Mike (P) Marshall12Bob Bailor11Alex Trevino10Jeff Reardon9Ray Searage8Mike Jorgensen7Mike Cubbage6Greg Harris5Randy Jones4Ron Hodges3Ron Gardenhire2Wally Backman1Jesse Orosco1981 RankingsPOINTSPLAYER 30Dave Kingman29Hubie Brooks28Neil Allen27Joel Youngblood26Rusty Staub25John Stearns24Mookie Wilson23Lee Mazzilli22Doug Flynn21Mike Scott20Ed Lynch19Pete Falcone18Ellis Valentine17Pat Zachry16Frank Tavares15Tom Hausman14Terry Leach13Mike (P) Marshall12Bob Bailor11Alex Trevino10Jeff Reardon9Ray Searage8Mike Jorgensen7Mike Cubbage6Greg Harris5Randy Jones4Ron Hodges3Ron Gardenhire2Wally Backman1Jesse Orosco

I remember Nageotte's name from the prospect discussions from a few years back. Guess his star has fallen a bit since or else he wouldn't be so available but there was some worthwhile talent there at some point.

I wouldn't trade those players for Vidro OR pay that kind of money for Lugo.

Problem w/Vidro is that he still has 2 more years ('07 & '08) to run on his deal (w/partial no-trade btw) at $8mil/per. So you're looking at Lugo costing a FA contract $?/yr plus a 2nd/3rd round draft pick (maybe #60-90) vs Current, as opposed to future, players to get Vidro (maybe not much) plus, in effect, a 2-year FA-like contract at more than he's worth right now with all the injuries and age. Not that those are the only two choices ... I'm just sayin'

metirish wrote: Do the Mets choose what players to expose? Players who have been pros for at least 4 or 5 years* (depending on the age when they first signed) but are not yet on the team's 40-man roster are "exposed" to being selected via the Rule 5 process. So it's a combination of "choice" and circumstances. Any player plucked off another team's roster must be kept on the major league roster the entire year or offered back to his original team. * just changed from 3 or 4 years in the new labor agreement