mario25 wrote: Jerry Manuel has managed previously And didn't do much better than Willie...a whole bunch of second place finishes with some pretty talented teams. The one time he did win the division he got outmanaged and swept by Lou Pinella playing small ball. You can put me down for thinking that Manuel may be part of the problem. If there is a shake-up, may it start with him. How many here think the 1999 shake up of coaches had an effect on the outcome of that season?