stevejrogers

That’d be a good comparable set of stats. Though it most likely is “same game” as compared to say “Diaz faced Freeman two days ago, and last night, so this might be tougher on Diaz right here…” Not as many relievers pitch three straight innings, and even though you have to factor in substitutions on the opponents side (situational replacements…was about to say PH for pitcher spot *sigh*). Anyway, all this being said, I don’t even know if it’s a wide spread axiom at all beyond game broadcasters and fans on social media platform In Game Discussions talking about when it’s time to yank their starter.

Honestly, though maybe just as strangely, the research was for an online card collecting hobby of mine. I do notice some trends in terms of a lot more players not playing in the games back in that era. Perhaps that is a small part of why in recent decades interest has perceived to have waned beyond seeing the introductions and activities in the days leading up to it… Anyway, to answer his “question posed” Yes, if those 7 bonus exhibition games are played the same as the first game, the Games Played “stats” should be accounted for. If you want to boil down a 5 out of 8 All-Star Series appearance to just 1, that’s a different, probably just as “what the hell are we arguing soberly over” childish, discussion altogether. Though not as much as trying to figure out why one would say the third time through an order is difficult for a pitcher to go through is a “truism” and try to not only prove it, but “why” it’s a common enough baseball phrase in the first place!

Just be glad in the above I didn’t pull out the “is making an All-Star Game roster any more legitimate than the TSN lists or MLB’s new fangled (since 2019) All-MLB teams at the end of the year anyway” card, especially using Schmidt’s 1989 ASG roster selection via the fan vote, despite retiring in May as a perfect example.

Players who were only on one of those game rosters: 1959 19 (GEEZ that is much more than I expected) Roger Maris AL Athletics Game 2 OF Cal McLish AL Indians Game 2 P Jerry Walker AL Orioles Game 2 P Gene Woodling AL Orioles Game 2 OF Billy O’Dell AL Orioles Game 2 P Bobby Allison AL Senators Game 2 OF Pedro Ramos AL Senators Game 2 P Camilo Pascal AL Senators Game 2 P Jim Bunning AL Tigers Game 1 P Billy Pierce AL White Sox Game 1 P Whitey Ford AL Yankees Game 1 P Tony Kubek AL Yankees Game 2 SS Bobby Richardson AL Yankees Game 2 2B Elston Howard AL Yankees Game 2 C Johnny Logan NL Braves Game 2 SS Wilmer Mizel NL Cardinals Game 1 P Charley Neal NL Dodgers Game 2 2B Jim Gilliam NL Dodgers Game 2 3B Sam Jones NL Giants Game 2 P 1960 No changes 1961 16 (still a lot more than I expected, especially with no additions to either 1960 squads) Ryne Duren AL Angels Game 1 P Ken McBride AL Angels Game 2 P Jim Perry AL Indians Game 1 P Tito Francona AL Indians Game 2 OF Barry Latman AL Indians Game 2 P Mike Fornieles AL Red Sox Game 1 P Don Schwall AL Red Sox Game 2 P Frank Lary AL Tigers Game 1 P Camilo Pascual AL Twins Game 2 P Luis Aparicio AL White Sox Game 2 SS Roy Sievers AL White Sox Game 2 1B Bill Skowron AL Yankees Game 2 1B Luis Arroyo AL Yankees Game 2 P Ernie Banks NL Cubs Game 2 SS Don Drysdale NL Dodgers Game 2 P Ed Bailey NL Giants Game 2 C 1962 17 Ken McBride AL Angels Game 2 P Bill Monbouquette AL Red Sox Game 1 P Pete Runnels AL Red Sox Game 2 1B Al Kaline AL Tigers Game 2 OF Jim Kaat AL Twins Game 2 P Ray Herbert AL White Sox Game 2 P Yogi Berra AL Yankees Game 2 C Bob Shaw NL Braves Game 1 P Eddie Mathews NL Braves Game 2 3B George Altman NL Cubs Game 2 OF Billy Williams NL Cubs Game 2 OF Sandy Koufax NL Dodgers Game 1 P Don Drysdale NL Dodgers Game 1 P Johnny Podres NL Dodgers Game 2 P Felipe Alou NL Giants Game 1 OF Art Mahaffey NL Phillies Game 2 P Frank Robinson NL Reds Game 2 OF DNPs in all 8 games 1959 I 13 (GEEZ Fred Haney used 17 of 25 available) Billy Pierce AL White Sox P Hoyt Wilhelm AL Orioles P Yogi Berra AL Yankees C Joe Cunningham NL Cardinals OF Vada Pinson NL Reds OF Frank Robinson NL Reds OF Bill White NL Cardinals OF Smoky Burgess NL Pirates C Hal Smith NL Cardinals C Gene Conley NL Phillies P Warren Spahn NL Braves P Wilmer Mizell NL Cardinals P (Injured) 1959 II 22 (Looks like the reverse happened with Stengel not using 13 guys at his disposal while Haney had 8 guys left on the bench or in the pen) Roy Sievers AL Senators 1B Bill Skowron AL Yankees 1B Bobby Richardson AL Yankees 2B Harmon Killebrew AL Senators 3B Gil McDougald AL Yankees SS Bob Allison AL Senators OF Harvey Kuenn AL Tigers OF Minnie Minoso AL Indians OF Elston Howard AL Yankees C Gus Triandos AL Orioles C Bud Daley AL Athletics P Pedro Ramos AL Senators P Ryne Duren AL Yankees P Camilo Pascual AL Senators P (Injured) Orlando Cepeda NL Giants 1B Bill Mazeroski NL Pirates 2B Johnny Logan NL Braves SS Bill White NL Cardinals OF Johnny Antonelli NL Giants P Lew Burdette NL Braves P Warren Spahn NL Braves P Don Elston NL Cubs P 1960 I 12 (okay, manageable, even by today’s standards) Vic Power AL Indians 1B Whitey Ford AL Yankees P Camilo Pascual AL Senators P (Injured) Early Wynn AL White Sox P Gerry Staley AL White Sox P Dick Stigman AL Indians P Ed Bailey NL Reds C Larry Jackson NL Cardinals P Johnny Podres NL Dodgers P Stan Williams NL Dodgers P Bill Henry NL Reds P Lindy McDaniel NL Cardinals P 1960 II 14 (ugh, Al Lopez goes off the rails, but Walt Alston does his team right for the 6-0 win) Jim Gentile AL Orioles 1B Luis Aparicio AL White Sox SS Jim Lemon AL Senators OF Elston Howard AL Yankees C Bud Daley AL Athletics P Chuck Estrada AL Orioles P Bill Monbouquette AL Red Sox P Jim Coates AL Yankees P Dick Stigman AL Indians P Camilo Pascual AL Senators P (Injured) Bob Buhl NL Braves P Bob Friend NL Pirates P Mike McCormick NL Giants P Roy Face NL Pirates P 1961 I 7 Jim Perry AL Indians P Billy Pierce AL White Sox P Ryne Duren AL Angels P Eddie Kasko NL Reds SS John Roseboro NL Dodgers C Joey Jay NL Reds P Art Mahaffey NL Phillies P 1961 II 24 (After a modern day like use of the roster by both Paul Richards and Danny Murtaugh in the first game, THIS happens!? And this is the 1-1 tie after 9 innings due to rain game at Fenway) Yogi Berra AL Yankees C Jim Gentile AL Orioles 1B Bill Skowron AL Yankees 1B Nellie Fox AL White Sox 2B Harmon Killebrew AL Twins 3B Dick Howser AL Athletics SS Tony Kubek AL Yankees SS Jackie Brandt AL Orioles OF Tito Francona AL Indians OF Dick Donovan AL Senators P Whitey Ford AL Yankees P Ken McBride AL Angels P Luis Arroyo AL Yankees P Barry Latman AL Indians P Hoyt Wilhelm AL Orioles P Don Zimmer NL Cubs 2B Ken Boyer NL Cardinals 3B Frank Robinson NL Reds OF Ed Bailey NL Giants C Don Drysdale NL Dodgers P Joey Jay NL Reds P Mike McCormick NL Giants P Warren Spahn NL Braves P Roy Face NL Pirates P 1962 I 14 Tom Tresh AL Yankees SS Elston Howard AL Yankees C Hank Aguirre AL Tigers P Bill Monbouquette AL Red Sox P Dave Stenhouse AL Senators P Ralph Terry AL Yankees P Hoyt Wilhelm AL Orioles P (Injured) Richie Ashburn NL Mets OF (Pinch hits in the second game) John Roseboro NL Dodgers C Turk Farrell NL Astros P Bob Gibson NL Cardinals P Sandy Koufax NL Dodgers P Warren Spahn NL Braves P Hank Aaron NL Braves OF (Injured) 1962 II 14 Norm Siebern AL Athletics 1B Mickey Mantle AL Yankees OF Jim Landis AL White Sox OF John Romano AL Indians C Jim Bunning AL Tigers P Dick Donovan AL Indians P Jim Kaat AL Twins P Camilo Pascual AL Twins P Ralph Terry AL Yankees P Hoyt Wilhelm AL Orioles P Ken McBride AL Angels P (Injured) Jim Davenport NL Giants 3B Bob Purkey NL Reds P Warren Spahn NL Braves P

Keep telling yourself that ********. You've got an audience that will lap that stuff up and beg for more. You do you. Tell me, though. If Rob Manfred decided that next season, because they're such crowd-pleasers, he'll decree eight All star games (not impossible with this bozo) then the players who get selected to play in all 8 are as legitimate as the guys who had to get elected in eight different years? WHA!? Look it up, and my notes are in the Mays Day thread. All except for one year both squads had a bunch of roster changes, and besides the starting pitchers there was quite a few All-Stars who played in the first game, but didn’t play the second game.

I still think there is a “little from column B” with zoned in hitters “noticing patterns” the third time up. No matter what the evidence shows? Here's a thought: how come no one claims any improvement at all the second time through the order? After seeing a pitcher's stuff once, batters improve not at all the second time, but there's a bump after seeing the stuff twice? Why should that be? I think you’ve been over thinking this in terms of looking for statistical patterns. The idiom just follows languages’, and baseball’s love of 3s. Hopefully you don’t try to prove/disprove the idiom about the defensive player securing the final out of a half inning, especially if it’s a nifty play, turning out to be the leadoff guy the next half inning of play! At least I just had to look up four years of roster changes and in-game player management of two games a year to prove Willie Mays’ four extra All-Star Game appearances from 1959-1962 were as legit as any of his appearances as a Giant during those two decades

There must be records of tens of thousands of games in which the starter pitched to at least 27 batters, thousands of which were low pitch-count games and thousands of which were high pitch-count games. That's a pretty significant sample size. The problem is accessing those records. I'm going on the premise that these two types of games would show a large difference in the effectiveness of each type of game. If it does, wouldn't you agree that "third time through the order" isn't really the problem, and that "high pitch-count" is? I still think there is a “little from column B” with zoned in hitters “noticing patterns” the third time up.

I’m still waiting for you to admit you are wrong about Willie Mays’ second ASG appearances from 1959-1962 “shouldn’t be acknowledged” in his all-time record of appearances Here, it’s hard to quantify because the variables include not only a potential tiring starter from additional pitches, but at least a few hitters that are so locked into considering things the pitcher did that got them, and their teammates out the first two times. Yeah a tipped pitch is one thing, but this goes beyond “noticing timing patterns” and such to get the mental edge. So it’s hard to really prove or disprove, and but just accepted due pretty much only pitchers tiring and batters noticing things.

Billy Taylor?

I have a feeling that That Seventies Guy was better known as a Phillie, but no actual name is coming to me. Other than Tugger, can’t think of former/future Met relievers from that era in Phillie history

Steve J. Rogers (@stevejrogers) • Instagram photo WWW.INSTAGRAM.COM 14 likes, 0 comments - stevejrogers on July 28, 2025: "Cheers, Tony! Sadly about an hour or so after I toasted this 1980s and 1990s baseball icon, news came down that a fellow contemporary legend of his, Ryne Sanberg is joining him in the heavenly Hall of Fame. RIP Tony and Ryne-O". Steve J. Rogers (@stevejrogers) • Instagram photo WWW.INSTAGRAM.COM 14 likes, 0 comments - stevejrogers on July 28, 2025: "Cheers, Tony! Sadly about an hour or so after I toasted this 1980s and 1990s baseball icon, news came down that a fellow contemporary legend of his, Ryne Sanberg is joining him in the heavenly Hall of Fame. RIP Tony and Ryne-O".

The guy that always believed

Bruce Sutter. I remember this because Warner Wolf on ESPN NY radio gave as reasoning for Joba Chamberlain being inserted into the rotation right away when he eventually debuted was that to that point no one had gone into Cooperstown that wasn’t a starting pitcher “first” Obviously way to declarative to be true as how would he know how all of the dozens of HOF pitchers were used in their MLB debuts and first few appearances. But silly to use as a determining factor, even if it’s more of a “rarity” than “none at all,” to how a highly touted prospect should be used when they hit the majors. Anyway, that was before Bruce Sutter made that argument “moot” and all!

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: --Lots of Craft beer That's actually why I was in LA first! Beer fest at the California Science Center near USC Saturday night.

Hopefully, I'll be posting here live…from somewhere a good 7 hours south of SF, all weekend before meeting the Mets on Monday in San Diego!

=Marshmallowmilkshake post_id=197343 time=1751815539 user_id=119] The All-Star reserves get named tonight. Given that every team gets represented and Dave Roberts will likely bring as many Dodgers as he can, I'm curious who will join Lindor from the Mets. I think Soto and Alonso, and maybe Diaz, but that would be a lot of Mets.

Speaking of the MFYs, the author spotlighted a whole dern bunch of them in the September chapter. Which ends with the debut of The Beverly Hillbillies, and a talk with the daughter of the owner of the home used as the exterior shots for the show… Still nothing on how the Dodgers and Giants were able to blow past the most recent two NL champs all year!

https://www.amazon.com/1962-Baseball-America-Time-JFK/dp/080329087X The Mets have their own chapter (June), but it’s more of an overall life thumbnail of various persons and players associated as opposed to what specifically occurred during the year. That’s kind of is why this a bit of a slog. Especially on stuff not tied to the world of baseball, like the rise of the space program. The author got it right a bit better in his book on 1978 baseball though. Put it this way, there is a lot more said in this book about the eventual 1970 NL Champion Reds due to 1962 no-hitter pitcher Bo Belinsky ending his big league days there (May’s chapter (no hitter was on May 5th) is all about his life and times) than there is to why the 1961 NL Champion Reds faltered in their attempt to repeat! I’m in the August chapter and no reference to the team that would finish third at 98-64 so far! I guess assumed that the Dodgers and Giants (who both got spotlighted with their own chapters similar to the Met one (April and July respectively)) just too much of a pair of steamrollers late as they were on that collision course towards the Play-In series.

https://wtop.com/national/2025/06/pittsburgh-pirates-say-hall-of-famer-dave-parker-has-died-at-74/https://wtop.com/national/2025/06/pittsburgh-pirates-say-hall-of-famer-dave-parker-has-died-at-74/ Will now be posthumously inducted into Cooperstown on a few weeks

"Sure, Wander Franco was no angel, but he was an amazing SS, and here's why I think he should have been the 2021 ROY...." Sounds ridiculous no? That's what every single dickhead who talks about Pete Rose's baseball career sounds like. A more comparable, due to still being an active concern, example would be the trolls, mostly in unmoderated Facebook groups, still banging the drums for the Mets (or anyone with rotation issues, to bring in Trevor Bauer. Considering we're pretty set for a while, even at stop gap injury fill-ins, I doubt Met groups will see an influx of trolls banging the Wander drums, but that “conversation” is more egregious when it comes to unrepentant douchenozzles with no sign of human growth and habit changes than conversations about post-playing day honors.

Monday July 28th. My plan is to toast Tony Gwynn’s statue with a local craft beer sold at Petco named for his .394 average in 1994. What are the chances I’ll actually be watching a few Mets’ final games as Mets 😑🤣 All kidding aside, it’d better not be a battle between two members of the scrum for the 3rd Wild Card slot!

=Centerfield post_id=195848 time=1750474073 user_id=65] It's hard to grasp how much damage has been done in one week. We may not see 21 games over .500 for a long long time. Certainly not in June. Probably not in July either. Just a fucking disaster.

At least the players are wearing their actual jerseys for the game. The jerseys they are wearing for the rest of the ASG festivities…meh

=roger_that post_id=191573 time=1746340838 user_id=128] =Marshmallowmilkshake post_id=191547 time=1746283800 user_id=119] I like these On Track posts. They're fun. Nice work.

Bob Alpacadaca wrote: I miss Roger That. I didn't always agree with his points, but I liked the discussions. It's a shame he feels he was chased out. Damn, I was curious how he'd respond to my empirical evidence in terms of treating the 4 “extra” All-Star Games from 1959-1962 as a legit game, and not something that shouldn't count towards someone's totals (with the amount of players that either were on only one game's roster, or played in only a single game that year). He literally wanted to take the 4 second games off of Willie Mays' record of 24 ASGs played in due to “they had two games” when if you look at each year's games, the rosters had changes, and not all the same players in Game 1 wound up in Game 2.