stevejrogers

34 is currently worn by Segna

Google search isn’t coming up with and Ryan-McLean connections so it is doubtful.

Born in 2001, went to HS in North Carolina…odds aren’t great.

That research was done for the “back of the baseball card” online hobby project I’ve been working on. But the fact that there were so many DNPs each game should provide reasoning as to why it’s idiotic to suggest giving players selected to both games half a “point” on their games selected stats is idiotic. 1959-1962 is still in the era where the players and managers seemed to “care a little” about the game play. You aren’t seeing less than 5 DNPs per team as you see today, and the game eligible roster sizes are nearly 40-Man roster deep these days! If the squads were meant for a barnstorming series (similar to recent decades’ trips to Japan), or akin to Savanah Bananas/Harlem Globetrotters where the final tallies are even more meaningless when the point is much more about giving fans a lighthearted show than serious competitive game play exhibition, then the point of taking these things as seriously as people do (never mind “scoreboard” comparing one player vs another) is justifiably insane. But those 8 games weren’t, so it is crazy to bark some nearly 70 years after the fact that the counting stats, at least roster appearances, should be altered!

And Frank Robinson deserves a .5 on his total selections because he was on only one of the 1962 games’ rosters?

Do you want to work on his counting stats as well? http:// https://www.baseball-reference.com/allstar/leaders_bat.shtml

Current MLB leader has 14, then there is one 13-game winner, three 12-gamers, a scrum of ten 11-game winners, and oddly ten 10-gamers

Do you want to petition MLB to change everyone’s counting stats if they played in both ASGs those years? Not sure if I trust Baseball-Reference in this manner though. They apparently added to selection counts unofficial after the season selections of 1945 rosters. That is the only other time besides 2020 that the ASG concept was completely scrapped for the season. There is a book from the early 2000 that had an entry for an after the season commissioned list of “selections” in the same MLB skippers chosen manner of the bench and pitching staffs of the era. Yes, of course anyone who uses ASG selections as anything but an interesting trivia note about the player, especially in HOF debates, “clearly superior than…” debates, etc is crazy. What I contend is to look at the games played in those years to show that it’s not a case of a blanket “**** THAT ERA” and ignore that it ever happened. There are a bunch of players each year, except one, that were only selected to just one game. Never mind players who played in one and did not enter the other one (including Met Richie Ashburn). Players who were only on one of those game rosters: 1959 19 (GEEZ that is much more than I expected) Roger Maris AL Athletics Game 2 OF Cal McLish AL Indians Game 2 P Jerry Walker AL Orioles Game 2 P Gene Woodling AL Orioles Game 2 OF Billy O’Dell AL Orioles Game 2 P Bobby Allison AL Senators Game 2 OF Pedro Ramos AL Senators Game 2 P Camilo Pascal AL Senators Game 2 P Jim Bunning AL Tigers Game 1 P Billy Pierce AL White Sox Game 1 P Whitey Ford AL Yankees Game 1 P Tony Kubek AL Yankees Game 2 SS Bobby Richardson AL Yankees Game 2 2B Elston Howard AL Yankees Game 2 C Johnny Logan NL Braves Game 2 SS Wilmer Mizel NL Cardinals Game 1 P Charley Neal NL Dodgers Game 2 2B Jim Gilliam NL Dodgers Game 2 3B Sam Jones NL Giants Game 2 P 1960 No changes 1961 16 (still a lot more than I expected, especially with no additions to either 1960 squads) Ryne Duren AL Angels Game 1 P Ken McBride AL Angels Game 2 P Jim Perry AL Indians Game 1 P Tito Francona AL Indians Game 2 OF Barry Latman AL Indians Game 2 P Mike Fornieles AL Red Sox Game 1 P Don Schwall AL Red Sox Game 2 P Frank Lary AL Tigers Game 1 P Camilo Pascual AL Twins Game 2 P Luis Aparicio AL White Sox Game 2 SS Roy Sievers AL White Sox Game 2 1B Bill Skowron AL Yankees Game 2 1B Luis Arroyo AL Yankees Game 2 P Ernie Banks NL Cubs Game 2 SS Don Drysdale NL Dodgers Game 2 P Ed Bailey NL Giants Game 2 C 1962 17 Ken McBride AL Angels Game 2 P Bill Monbouquette AL Red Sox Game 1 P Pete Runnels AL Red Sox Game 2 1B Al Kaline AL Tigers Game 2 OF Jim Kaat AL Twins Game 2 P Ray Herbert AL White Sox Game 2 P Yogi Berra AL Yankees Game 2 C Bob Shaw NL Braves Game 1 P Eddie Mathews NL Braves Game 2 3B George Altman NL Cubs Game 2 OF Billy Williams NL Cubs Game 2 OF Sandy Koufax NL Dodgers Game 1 P Don Drysdale NL Dodgers Game 1 P Johnny Podres NL Dodgers Game 2 P Felipe Alou NL Giants Game 1 OF Art Mahaffey NL Phillies Game 2 P Frank Robinson NL Reds Game 2 OF DNPs in all 8 games 1959 I 13 (GEEZ Fred Haney used 17 of 25 available) Billy Pierce AL White Sox P Hoyt Wilhelm AL Orioles P Yogi Berra AL Yankees C Joe Cunningham NL Cardinals OF Vada Pinson NL Reds OF Frank Robinson NL Reds OF Bill White NL Cardinals OF Smoky Burgess NL Pirates C Hal Smith NL Cardinals C Gene Conley NL Phillies P Warren Spahn NL Braves P Wilmer Mizell NL Cardinals P (Injured) 1959 II 22 (Looks like the reverse happened with Stengel not using 13 guys at his disposal while Haney had 8 guys left on the bench or in the pen) Roy Sievers AL Senators 1B Bill Skowron AL Yankees 1B Bobby Richardson AL Yankees 2B Harmon Killebrew AL Senators 3B Gil McDougald AL Yankees SS Bob Allison AL Senators OF Harvey Kuenn AL Tigers OF Minnie Minoso AL Indians OF Elston Howard AL Yankees C Gus Triandos AL Orioles C Bud Daley AL Athletics P Pedro Ramos AL Senators P Ryne Duren AL Yankees P Camilo Pascual AL Senators P (Injured) Orlando Cepeda NL Giants 1B Bill Mazeroski NL Pirates 2B Johnny Logan NL Braves SS Bill White NL Cardinals OF Johnny Antonelli NL Giants P Lew Burdette NL Braves P Warren Spahn NL Braves P Don Elston NL Cubs P 1960 I 12 (okay, manageable, even by today’s standards) Vic Power AL Indians 1B Whitey Ford AL Yankees P Camilo Pascual AL Senators P (Injured) Early Wynn AL White Sox P Gerry Staley AL White Sox P Dick Stigman AL Indians P Ed Bailey NL Reds C Larry Jackson NL Cardinals P Johnny Podres NL Dodgers P Stan Williams NL Dodgers P Bill Henry NL Reds P Lindy McDaniel NL Cardinals P 1960 II 14 (ugh, Al Lopez goes off the rails, but Walt Alston does his team right for the 6-0 win) Jim Gentile AL Orioles 1B Luis Aparicio AL White Sox SS Jim Lemon AL Senators OF Elston Howard AL Yankees C Bud Daley AL Athletics P Chuck Estrada AL Orioles P Bill Monbouquette AL Red Sox P Jim Coates AL Yankees P Dick Stigman AL Indians P Camilo Pascual AL Senators P (Injured) Bob Buhl NL Braves P Bob Friend NL Pirates P Mike McCormick NL Giants P Roy Face NL Pirates P 1961 I 7 Jim Perry AL Indians P Billy Pierce AL White Sox P Ryne Duren AL Angels P Eddie Kasko NL Reds SS John Roseboro NL Dodgers C Joey Jay NL Reds P Art Mahaffey NL Phillies P 1961 II 24 (After a modern day like use of the roster by both Paul Richards and Danny Murtaugh in the first game, THIS happens!? And this is the 1-1 tie after 9 innings due to rain game at Fenway) Yogi Berra AL Yankees C Jim Gentile AL Orioles 1B Bill Skowron AL Yankees 1B Nellie Fox AL White Sox 2B Harmon Killebrew AL Twins 3B Dick Howser AL Athletics SS Tony Kubek AL Yankees SS Jackie Brandt AL Orioles OF Tito Francona AL Indians OF Dick Donovan AL Senators P Whitey Ford AL Yankees P Ken McBride AL Angels P Luis Arroyo AL Yankees P Barry Latman AL Indians P Hoyt Wilhelm AL Orioles P Don Zimmer NL Cubs 2B Ken Boyer NL Cardinals 3B Frank Robinson NL Reds OF Ed Bailey NL Giants C Don Drysdale NL Dodgers P Joey Jay NL Reds P Mike McCormick NL Giants P Warren Spahn NL Braves P Roy Face NL Pirates P 1962 I 14 Tom Tresh AL Yankees SS Elston Howard AL Yankees C Hank Aguirre AL Tigers P Bill Monbouquette AL Red Sox P Dave Stenhouse AL Senators P Ralph Terry AL Yankees P Hoyt Wilhelm AL Orioles P (Injured) Richie Ashburn NL Mets OF (Pinch hits in the second game) John Roseboro NL Dodgers C Turk Farrell NL Astros P Bob Gibson NL Cardinals P Sandy Koufax NL Dodgers P Warren Spahn NL Braves P Hank Aaron NL Braves OF (Injured) 1962 II 14 Norm Siebern AL Athletics 1B Mickey Mantle AL Yankees OF Jim Landis AL White Sox OF John Romano AL Indians C Jim Bunning AL Tigers P Dick Donovan AL Indians P Jim Kaat AL Twins P Camilo Pascual AL Twins P Ralph Terry AL Yankees P Hoyt Wilhelm AL Orioles P Ken McBride AL Angels P (Injured) Jim Davenport NL Giants 3B Bob Purkey NL Reds P Warren Spahn NL Braves P

That’d be a good comparable set of stats. Though it most likely is “same game” as compared to say “Diaz faced Freeman two days ago, and last night, so this might be tougher on Diaz right here…” Not as many relievers pitch three straight innings, and even though you have to factor in substitutions on the opponents side (situational replacements…was about to say PH for pitcher spot *sigh*). Anyway, all this being said, I don’t even know if it’s a wide spread axiom at all beyond game broadcasters and fans on social media platform In Game Discussions talking about when it’s time to yank their starter.

Honestly, though maybe just as strangely, the research was for an online card collecting hobby of mine. I do notice some trends in terms of a lot more players not playing in the games back in that era. Perhaps that is a small part of why in recent decades interest has perceived to have waned beyond seeing the introductions and activities in the days leading up to it… Anyway, to answer his “question posed” Yes, if those 7 bonus exhibition games are played the same as the first game, the Games Played “stats” should be accounted for. If you want to boil down a 5 out of 8 All-Star Series appearance to just 1, that’s a different, probably just as “what the hell are we arguing soberly over” childish, discussion altogether. Though not as much as trying to figure out why one would say the third time through an order is difficult for a pitcher to go through is a “truism” and try to not only prove it, but “why” it’s a common enough baseball phrase in the first place!

Just be glad in the above I didn’t pull out the “is making an All-Star Game roster any more legitimate than the TSN lists or MLB’s new fangled (since 2019) All-MLB teams at the end of the year anyway” card, especially using Schmidt’s 1989 ASG roster selection via the fan vote, despite retiring in May as a perfect example.

Players who were only on one of those game rosters: 1959 19 (GEEZ that is much more than I expected) Roger Maris AL Athletics Game 2 OF Cal McLish AL Indians Game 2 P Jerry Walker AL Orioles Game 2 P Gene Woodling AL Orioles Game 2 OF Billy O’Dell AL Orioles Game 2 P Bobby Allison AL Senators Game 2 OF Pedro Ramos AL Senators Game 2 P Camilo Pascal AL Senators Game 2 P Jim Bunning AL Tigers Game 1 P Billy Pierce AL White Sox Game 1 P Whitey Ford AL Yankees Game 1 P Tony Kubek AL Yankees Game 2 SS Bobby Richardson AL Yankees Game 2 2B Elston Howard AL Yankees Game 2 C Johnny Logan NL Braves Game 2 SS Wilmer Mizel NL Cardinals Game 1 P Charley Neal NL Dodgers Game 2 2B Jim Gilliam NL Dodgers Game 2 3B Sam Jones NL Giants Game 2 P 1960 No changes 1961 16 (still a lot more than I expected, especially with no additions to either 1960 squads) Ryne Duren AL Angels Game 1 P Ken McBride AL Angels Game 2 P Jim Perry AL Indians Game 1 P Tito Francona AL Indians Game 2 OF Barry Latman AL Indians Game 2 P Mike Fornieles AL Red Sox Game 1 P Don Schwall AL Red Sox Game 2 P Frank Lary AL Tigers Game 1 P Camilo Pascual AL Twins Game 2 P Luis Aparicio AL White Sox Game 2 SS Roy Sievers AL White Sox Game 2 1B Bill Skowron AL Yankees Game 2 1B Luis Arroyo AL Yankees Game 2 P Ernie Banks NL Cubs Game 2 SS Don Drysdale NL Dodgers Game 2 P Ed Bailey NL Giants Game 2 C 1962 17 Ken McBride AL Angels Game 2 P Bill Monbouquette AL Red Sox Game 1 P Pete Runnels AL Red Sox Game 2 1B Al Kaline AL Tigers Game 2 OF Jim Kaat AL Twins Game 2 P Ray Herbert AL White Sox Game 2 P Yogi Berra AL Yankees Game 2 C Bob Shaw NL Braves Game 1 P Eddie Mathews NL Braves Game 2 3B George Altman NL Cubs Game 2 OF Billy Williams NL Cubs Game 2 OF Sandy Koufax NL Dodgers Game 1 P Don Drysdale NL Dodgers Game 1 P Johnny Podres NL Dodgers Game 2 P Felipe Alou NL Giants Game 1 OF Art Mahaffey NL Phillies Game 2 P Frank Robinson NL Reds Game 2 OF DNPs in all 8 games 1959 I 13 (GEEZ Fred Haney used 17 of 25 available) Billy Pierce AL White Sox P Hoyt Wilhelm AL Orioles P Yogi Berra AL Yankees C Joe Cunningham NL Cardinals OF Vada Pinson NL Reds OF Frank Robinson NL Reds OF Bill White NL Cardinals OF Smoky Burgess NL Pirates C Hal Smith NL Cardinals C Gene Conley NL Phillies P Warren Spahn NL Braves P Wilmer Mizell NL Cardinals P (Injured) 1959 II 22 (Looks like the reverse happened with Stengel not using 13 guys at his disposal while Haney had 8 guys left on the bench or in the pen) Roy Sievers AL Senators 1B Bill Skowron AL Yankees 1B Bobby Richardson AL Yankees 2B Harmon Killebrew AL Senators 3B Gil McDougald AL Yankees SS Bob Allison AL Senators OF Harvey Kuenn AL Tigers OF Minnie Minoso AL Indians OF Elston Howard AL Yankees C Gus Triandos AL Orioles C Bud Daley AL Athletics P Pedro Ramos AL Senators P Ryne Duren AL Yankees P Camilo Pascual AL Senators P (Injured) Orlando Cepeda NL Giants 1B Bill Mazeroski NL Pirates 2B Johnny Logan NL Braves SS Bill White NL Cardinals OF Johnny Antonelli NL Giants P Lew Burdette NL Braves P Warren Spahn NL Braves P Don Elston NL Cubs P 1960 I 12 (okay, manageable, even by today’s standards) Vic Power AL Indians 1B Whitey Ford AL Yankees P Camilo Pascual AL Senators P (Injured) Early Wynn AL White Sox P Gerry Staley AL White Sox P Dick Stigman AL Indians P Ed Bailey NL Reds C Larry Jackson NL Cardinals P Johnny Podres NL Dodgers P Stan Williams NL Dodgers P Bill Henry NL Reds P Lindy McDaniel NL Cardinals P 1960 II 14 (ugh, Al Lopez goes off the rails, but Walt Alston does his team right for the 6-0 win) Jim Gentile AL Orioles 1B Luis Aparicio AL White Sox SS Jim Lemon AL Senators OF Elston Howard AL Yankees C Bud Daley AL Athletics P Chuck Estrada AL Orioles P Bill Monbouquette AL Red Sox P Jim Coates AL Yankees P Dick Stigman AL Indians P Camilo Pascual AL Senators P (Injured) Bob Buhl NL Braves P Bob Friend NL Pirates P Mike McCormick NL Giants P Roy Face NL Pirates P 1961 I 7 Jim Perry AL Indians P Billy Pierce AL White Sox P Ryne Duren AL Angels P Eddie Kasko NL Reds SS John Roseboro NL Dodgers C Joey Jay NL Reds P Art Mahaffey NL Phillies P 1961 II 24 (After a modern day like use of the roster by both Paul Richards and Danny Murtaugh in the first game, THIS happens!? And this is the 1-1 tie after 9 innings due to rain game at Fenway) Yogi Berra AL Yankees C Jim Gentile AL Orioles 1B Bill Skowron AL Yankees 1B Nellie Fox AL White Sox 2B Harmon Killebrew AL Twins 3B Dick Howser AL Athletics SS Tony Kubek AL Yankees SS Jackie Brandt AL Orioles OF Tito Francona AL Indians OF Dick Donovan AL Senators P Whitey Ford AL Yankees P Ken McBride AL Angels P Luis Arroyo AL Yankees P Barry Latman AL Indians P Hoyt Wilhelm AL Orioles P Don Zimmer NL Cubs 2B Ken Boyer NL Cardinals 3B Frank Robinson NL Reds OF Ed Bailey NL Giants C Don Drysdale NL Dodgers P Joey Jay NL Reds P Mike McCormick NL Giants P Warren Spahn NL Braves P Roy Face NL Pirates P 1962 I 14 Tom Tresh AL Yankees SS Elston Howard AL Yankees C Hank Aguirre AL Tigers P Bill Monbouquette AL Red Sox P Dave Stenhouse AL Senators P Ralph Terry AL Yankees P Hoyt Wilhelm AL Orioles P (Injured) Richie Ashburn NL Mets OF (Pinch hits in the second game) John Roseboro NL Dodgers C Turk Farrell NL Astros P Bob Gibson NL Cardinals P Sandy Koufax NL Dodgers P Warren Spahn NL Braves P Hank Aaron NL Braves OF (Injured) 1962 II 14 Norm Siebern AL Athletics 1B Mickey Mantle AL Yankees OF Jim Landis AL White Sox OF John Romano AL Indians C Jim Bunning AL Tigers P Dick Donovan AL Indians P Jim Kaat AL Twins P Camilo Pascual AL Twins P Ralph Terry AL Yankees P Hoyt Wilhelm AL Orioles P Ken McBride AL Angels P (Injured) Jim Davenport NL Giants 3B Bob Purkey NL Reds P Warren Spahn NL Braves P

Keep telling yourself that ********. You've got an audience that will lap that stuff up and beg for more. You do you. Tell me, though. If Rob Manfred decided that next season, because they're such crowd-pleasers, he'll decree eight All star games (not impossible with this bozo) then the players who get selected to play in all 8 are as legitimate as the guys who had to get elected in eight different years? WHA!? Look it up, and my notes are in the Mays Day thread. All except for one year both squads had a bunch of roster changes, and besides the starting pitchers there was quite a few All-Stars who played in the first game, but didn’t play the second game.

I still think there is a “little from column B” with zoned in hitters “noticing patterns” the third time up. No matter what the evidence shows? Here's a thought: how come no one claims any improvement at all the second time through the order? After seeing a pitcher's stuff once, batters improve not at all the second time, but there's a bump after seeing the stuff twice? Why should that be? I think you’ve been over thinking this in terms of looking for statistical patterns. The idiom just follows languages’, and baseball’s love of 3s. Hopefully you don’t try to prove/disprove the idiom about the defensive player securing the final out of a half inning, especially if it’s a nifty play, turning out to be the leadoff guy the next half inning of play! At least I just had to look up four years of roster changes and in-game player management of two games a year to prove Willie Mays’ four extra All-Star Game appearances from 1959-1962 were as legit as any of his appearances as a Giant during those two decades

There must be records of tens of thousands of games in which the starter pitched to at least 27 batters, thousands of which were low pitch-count games and thousands of which were high pitch-count games. That's a pretty significant sample size. The problem is accessing those records. I'm going on the premise that these two types of games would show a large difference in the effectiveness of each type of game. If it does, wouldn't you agree that "third time through the order" isn't really the problem, and that "high pitch-count" is? I still think there is a “little from column B” with zoned in hitters “noticing patterns” the third time up.

I’m still waiting for you to admit you are wrong about Willie Mays’ second ASG appearances from 1959-1962 “shouldn’t be acknowledged” in his all-time record of appearances Here, it’s hard to quantify because the variables include not only a potential tiring starter from additional pitches, but at least a few hitters that are so locked into considering things the pitcher did that got them, and their teammates out the first two times. Yeah a tipped pitch is one thing, but this goes beyond “noticing timing patterns” and such to get the mental edge. So it’s hard to really prove or disprove, and but just accepted due pretty much only pitchers tiring and batters noticing things.

Billy Taylor?

I have a feeling that That Seventies Guy was better known as a Phillie, but no actual name is coming to me. Other than Tugger, can’t think of former/future Met relievers from that era in Phillie history

The guy that always believed

Bruce Sutter. I remember this because Warner Wolf on ESPN NY radio gave as reasoning for Joba Chamberlain being inserted into the rotation right away when he eventually debuted was that to that point no one had gone into Cooperstown that wasn’t a starting pitcher “first” Obviously way to declarative to be true as how would he know how all of the dozens of HOF pitchers were used in their MLB debuts and first few appearances. But silly to use as a determining factor, even if it’s more of a “rarity” than “none at all,” to how a highly touted prospect should be used when they hit the majors. Anyway, that was before Bruce Sutter made that argument “moot” and all!

Speaking of the MFYs, the author spotlighted a whole dern bunch of them in the September chapter. Which ends with the debut of The Beverly Hillbillies, and a talk with the daughter of the owner of the home used as the exterior shots for the show… Still nothing on how the Dodgers and Giants were able to blow past the most recent two NL champs all year!

https://www.amazon.com/1962-Baseball-America-Time-JFK/dp/080329087X The Mets have their own chapter (June), but it’s more of an overall life thumbnail of various persons and players associated as opposed to what specifically occurred during the year. That’s kind of is why this a bit of a slog. Especially on stuff not tied to the world of baseball, like the rise of the space program. The author got it right a bit better in his book on 1978 baseball though. Put it this way, there is a lot more said in this book about the eventual 1970 NL Champion Reds due to 1962 no-hitter pitcher Bo Belinsky ending his big league days there (May’s chapter (no hitter was on May 5th) is all about his life and times) than there is to why the 1961 NL Champion Reds faltered in their attempt to repeat! I’m in the August chapter and no reference to the team that would finish third at 98-64 so far! I guess assumed that the Dodgers and Giants (who both got spotlighted with their own chapters similar to the Met one (April and July respectively)) just too much of a pair of steamrollers late as they were on that collision course towards the Play-In series.

Monday July 28th. My plan is to toast Tony Gwynn’s statue with a local craft beer sold at Petco named for his .394 average in 1994. What are the chances I’ll actually be watching a few Mets’ final games as Mets 😑🤣 All kidding aside, it’d better not be a battle between two members of the scrum for the 3rd Wild Card slot!

https://www.nr4ptproject.com/2129309/episodes/17102087-the-early-years-of-snl-s04e16-richard-benjamin-rickie-lee-jones-4-7-79 Podcast discusses Saturday Night Live episode that features the pre-tape of Chico Escuela trying to make a comeback with the Mets.

Don’t feel like going down a rabbit hole to see if this is in fact evidence of a MLBS, but for some reason Keenan Thompson was sporting a Met uniform while in a Jack Black segment for his debut Saturday Night Live episode back in 2003. Saturday Night Network (@thesnlnetwork) • Instagram photo WWW.INSTAGRAM.COM 9,084 likes, 21 comments - thesnlnetwork on April 6, 2025: "2003: Jack Black is the SNL host for Kenan Thompson’s first episode 2025: 438 episodes later, Jack Black and Kenan Thompson are reunited".