nymr83

="metsguyinmichigan":3q5f8l8q]I'm glad we're winning![/quote:3q5f8l8q] I'm digging the new scoreboard, what kind of team wouldn't be winning in their own ad? maybe the knicks? scoreboard lineup: 7 Reyes 28 Murphy 5 Wright 21 Delgado 15 Beltran 19 Church 17 Tatis 23 Schneider 57 Santana soupcan Mar 05 2009 08:33 AM Who has a guess as to what these circles in front of the rotunda are going to be...? More pics. John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 05 2009 08:37 AM I thought they were gonna bury the apple in one of them. Now I think maybe they are lightpole-holes or something. soupcan Mar 05 2009 08:39 AM Too big for lights, no? I was thinking statues but that middle one seems way too big for that. metsguyinmichigan Mar 05 2009 08:50 AM The Times has a story about Citi . I put some of the most stupid comments in bold. THE METS� NEW HOME: CALL IT THE ANTI-SHEA By KEN BELSON and RICHARD SANDOMIR c.2009 New York Times News Service NEW YORK � For those fans who hated Shea Stadium, fear not: Citi Field is nothing like its predecessor, the last bits of which lie in ruins a few hundreds yards away. The Mets� new park, which will open its doors for a Georgetown-St. John�s baseball game March 29, is far more intimate than Shea and corrects some of the old stadium�s worst faults. Citi Field will hold about 42,000 fans, 15,000 fewer than Shea. The park is enclosed and many seats wrap around the outfield, so it feels much cozier than Shea�s open-ended bowl, which favored watching football. �� During an extensive tour of Citi Field on Tuesday, Jeff Wilpon, the team�s chief operating officer, spoke in the Acela Club, a restaurant in left field that will have 550 seats, table service, a bar and wine cabinets for frequent patrons. �� �There�s all this light and air, and then you�re looking back at the field,� Wilpon said. �We want to make people feel they�re in a living room.� �� The seats throughout the stadium are angled toward the center of the infield, reducing the need for fans, particularly on the field level, to crane their necks toward home plate. �� Sitting in their seats, few fans will see the chop shops in Willets Point, the cars roaring past on the Van Wyck Expressway, the subway yards to the south or the U-Haul sign. They will still get a crystal-clear view of the planes on their final approach to La Guardia Airport. Some things never change. �� Citi Field has many nooks and crannies that are nothing like Shea�s tired symmetry. The grandstand that hangs over right field, for instance, was inspired by the old Tiger Stadium, which Wilpon visited with his grandparents as a child. Fans in center field will get a bull�s-eye view of the bullpens, with Aaron Heilman only in the visitors� half, which is on a slightly raised level, with some protection from fan saliva. �� The 16-foot wall that rings much of the outfield means a Endy Chavez-like catch to save a home run is unlikely, though. �� Going for food or a bathroom break will be a lot easier. The concourses are far wider, bathrooms are more numerous and beer drinkers will not have to wander far for a microbrew. Gabila�s knishes will return thanks to convection ovens. (The old knishes were fried, which helps explain the heartburn they generated.) �� The chance of a plumbing malfunction has also been reduced: The Mets have installed waterless urinals, an eco-friendly touch. �� The walk from the subway station to Citi Field�s front entrance will take about as long as it took to reach Gate E at Shea, but an acre of planters, trees and other landscaping will usher fans to the new park�s brick exterior and ornate rotunda named for Jackie Robinson. Bricks embedded in the capacious plaza include inscriptions from fans who paid $195 to $345 for the privilege. Several applications were rejected because the language was deemed insulting of New York�s other baseball team. �� Citi Field�s exterior is a splendid architectural response to the dullness of Shea, while the inner bowl is muted. Shea�s candy-colored plastic seats are gone (along with generations of chipped paint on the handrails) in favor of dark green seats everywhere. �� �Dark green is the color of a classic ballpark,� said Dave Howard, the team�s executive vice president for business operations, as he stood ankle deep in snow. �And we thought the other team in town would use blue.� �� Citi Field, with 28 different seating categories, also feels more fragmented than Shea, which had sections of box and reserved seats that stretched from one foul pole to the other. The collection of far smaller blocks of luxury suites, party rooms, restaurants and exclusive box seats spells exclusivity or exclusion, depending on your point of view. �� Everything has a new name, as well. There�s the Ebbets Club, the Delta Sky360 Club and the Caesars Club. Seaver, Hodges and Stengel have their names on three of the five party suites. The name game is not done, either. �� �In this economy, you don�t turn down sponsors,� Wilpon said. �Anyone who�s willing to pay � hellip � .� �� The suites, apparently, will not be just for baseball. Howard said that the club had already booked bar mitzvahs in the Caesars Club. A 150-seat auditorium could host corporate events. �� While all the major construction is finished, many little touches remain. The kitchens are filled with refrigerators and even French fry baskets, but much of the equipment is unplugged, out of position and covered with layers of dust. �� The much-improved sound system and scoreboards were getting a workout. A version of Johnny Nash�s �I Can See Clearly Now� played loud and clear. The LED scoreboards that line the facades were ready for June. One read: �David Wright .320 AVG 15 HR 66 RBI.� �� Wilpon said the team had not decided who would throw out the first pitch on opening day April 13. But he said it would be great if President Barack Obama did it on Jackie Robinson Day two nights later. �� With the sun setting, dozens of employees were waiting in the parking lot next to the park before their orientation sessions. Gary Brown, who worked at a concession stand for two years at Shea, said he and his friend Faruk Stokes were looking forward to their new workplace. �� �Any type of progress is a good thing,� said Brown, who lives in Corona, Queens. �It�s a beautiful facility. I just hope the team is more successful here.� metsguyinmichigan Mar 05 2009 08:51 AM ="soupcan":28vgfpu9]Too big for lights, no? I was thinking statues but that middle one seems way too big for that.[/quote:28vgfpu9] Fountains and plants? metirish Mar 05 2009 09:38 AM Crop circles? SteveJRogers Mar 05 2009 09:53 AM ="metsguyinmichigan":1150e6ur]="soupcan":1150e6ur]Too big for lights, no? I was thinking statues but that middle one seems way too big for that.[/quote:1150e6ur] Fountains and plants?[/quote:1150e6ur] That is the word according to those who post on the Baseball-Fever.com Citi thread. The holes are for floral arrangements and a fountain. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 13 2009 10:29 AM http://www.flickr.com/photos/14504460@N02/sets/72157615165829740/ Apparently, some Met history might make it into the new place, in a nifty way: silhouettes above each CitiField entrance commemorating corresponding memorable moments in Mets history-- Left Field gets Endy's catch, Right Field gets Swoboda's, etc. The bullpen gate is as yet unadorned (if not Tug or Jesse, post-'86, may I suggest a David Cone "warming up" silhouette?), although it's possible that the lonely Seaver sil (in the middle of the linked set) ends up there. A subtle and well-executed (and, sadly, all-too-rare) note of tribute, methinks. John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 13 2009 10:36 AM Very nice. Wasn't that easy? Edgy DC Mar 13 2009 10:41 AM I'd have to see it in poyson, but Rocky's sihouette seems mostly obscured behind the letters. Raise it up 18 inches or so, say I. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 13 2009 10:51 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Mar 13 2009 11:09 AM Rocky diving under/in front of the sign, and Endy reeling in Rolen right in front (sign-as-wall) would have been the tits, no? But, hey, minor quibble. I like Orosco's Post-WS Daily News cover for the Bullpen Gate. soupcan Mar 13 2009 10:53 AM ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":1391jq7m]I like Orosco's Post-WS Daily News cover for the Bullpen Gate.[/quote:1391jq7m] Oooh, good call. MFS62 Mar 13 2009 12:25 PM One guy's opinion about the new stadium. I can see how he feels about Mays and the Giants being left out. http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2009/03/13/2009-03-13_why_did_the_mets_build_a_shrine_to_the_d.html Later Edgy DC Mar 13 2009 12:35 PM That article is pure hackery. G-Fafif Mar 13 2009 12:38 PM ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":3qghjbcz]I like Orosco's Post-WS Daily News cover for the Bullpen Gate.[/quote:3qghjbcz] You'd have to clearly mark it as Jesse and his moment of triumph. Otherwise, the sight of a Mets reliever down on his knees conjures visions of 2008 and all the saves that were blown. G-Fafif Mar 13 2009 12:43 PM ="Edgy DC":384aoame]That article is pure hackery.[/quote:384aoame] I don't mind this narrative, to a certain extent, for my own Polo Grounds-loving reasons, but does the author (or the News' editorial page editor) think this is a startlingly new observation? Also, Mays played for the Mets in '72 and '73. Being too young to remember 1969 is no excuse for not getting that much straight. Edgy DC Mar 13 2009 12:49 PM No, his position is fine, but it's late in the day, cherry picked, and his always-has-been, always-will-be tone as if his position is so self evident is weak. I also have a dislike for columnists who ask questions out loud and then provide their own answers. You're a journalist. If you have questions, direct them at people and find some answers. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 13 2009 12:49 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Mar 13 2009 12:59 PM ="G-Fafif"]="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr"]I like Orosco's Post-WS Daily News cover for the Bullpen Gate. You'd have to clearly mark it as Jesse and his moment of triumph. Otherwise, the sight of a Mets reliever down on his knees conjures visions of 2008 and all the saves that were blown. Fists raised to the heavens wouldn't mark it clearly enough? (Am not sure any of the 2008ers had the arm strength left by season's end to raise 'em above his head.) soupcan Mar 13 2009 12:58 PM Met fans would certainly recognize a silhouette of Jesse in that pose. No question. SteveJRogers Mar 15 2009 06:53 PM From Baseball-Fever, well, FINALLY a familiar face appears! Edgy DC Mar 15 2009 06:59 PM I'm guessing Johnson and the '86ers will go in next to that. seawolf17 Mar 15 2009 07:35 PM ="Edgy DC":okbu00pg]I'm guessing Johnson and the '86ers will go in next to that.[/quote:okbu00pg] Or maybe Alston and the '55ers. metirish Mar 15 2009 08:04 PM I like it , who is that.......I'm kidding , I'm kidding. John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 15 2009 08:09 PM Up there until they can sell the space a la the lizard above, prolly. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 15 2009 08:14 PM Enjoy it now for free; take it home in 30 years for $690,000 as CitiField gives way to People's Republic of China presents Shamwow! Park. seawolf17 Mar 15 2009 08:38 PM ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":h17a01f9]People's Republic of China presents Shamwow! Park.[/quote:h17a01f9] That was excellent. metsguyinmichigan Mar 15 2009 08:53 PM ="seawolf17":31zy52xl]="Edgy DC":31zy52xl]I'm guessing Johnson and the '86ers will go in next to that.[/quote:31zy52xl] Or maybe Alston and the '55ers.[/quote:31zy52xl] Badass! SteveJRogers Mar 18 2009 04:59 PM Mural is complete Both off of Baseball-Fever.com And it looks like Shea's ghosts have moved over already metsguyinmichigan Mar 21 2009 02:25 PM The skyline lives! I'm glad to see that it made the trip over to Citi Field. John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 21 2009 04:02 PM Nice photos and an enthusiastically positive review here: [url:3bkz11bv]http://metsgrrl.com/index.php/site/comments/the-metsgrrl-citi-field-preview/[/url:3bkz11bv] LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 21 2009 11:22 PM Caryn's work is a friggin' public service. I feel like I did as a 5-year-old, waiting for the Millennium Falcon I'd get on Christmas. themetfairy Mar 22 2009 06:59 AM It does look lovely - I'm looking forward to seeing it. Benjamin Grimm Mar 22 2009 07:34 AM I'm having doubts as to whether I'll get there in 2009. I just pretended to be a ticket buyer for seats for a weekend game in May. No Promenade seats seem to be available. They instead redirect me to 100 level seats in left field, which seem okay, and at not-too-awful a price. But That's six weeks from now. My standard approach has been to wait until three or four days before to buy tickets. (I want to see what the weather will be.) I don't think I'll have that luxury anymore. G-Fafif Mar 22 2009 08:43 AM I can feel the psychic barrier that has kept me from embracing this new place beginning to seriously crack. Probably has something to do with this is where the Mets are going to play in their home uniforms, and that there is no other physical option in the immediate vicinity available for that activity. seawolf17 Mar 22 2009 11:14 AM ="G-Fafif":16qx2n7l]I can feel the psychic barrier that has kept me from embracing this new place beginning to seriously crack. Probably has something to do with this is where the Mets are going to play in their home uniforms, and that there is no other physical option in the immediate vicinity available for that activity.[/quote:16qx2n7l] Yep, me too. Benjamin Grimm Mar 22 2009 11:21 AM Not me. That won't happen until I actually see that I'll be able to go a couple of times per year. I don't have any bad feelings about the place, but I also don't have any connection to it either. At least, not yet. metirish Mar 24 2009 08:29 AM Some great looking shots here , I'm excited about this place. > soupcan Mar 24 2009 08:56 AM The grass looks nice. I'll now go on record as saying I approve of the new apple. Mainly because its not coming out of a ridiculous top hat. An apple is easily recognizable as a symbol of NYC. If it simply has a Mets logo on it or says 'Let's Go Mets' when it pops up, I'm very cool with that. However, if says something like 'Citi - the core of banking in the Big Apple' or some other stupid ad, I'm out baby. metsmarathon Mar 24 2009 09:07 AM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Mar 24 2009 09:11 AM they're just shoving the citi-branding all up in our faces with every opportunity, those bastards! i mean, look at that repeated arc in the outfield grass, and tell me you don't see the affront of yet another little red rainbow. how fitting that this arc is painted in glorious shades of green, echoing the fields of taxpayer cash funneled into citibank and, therefore, citifield, from the ground, up. it sickens me. really, it doesn't. i just wanted to be the first to mention the similitude between the arcing turf and the citi logo, whether its intentional or just a logical extension of the border between infield and out. metsguyinmichigan Mar 24 2009 09:09 AM ="soupcan":30e9w3y7]The grass looks nice. I'll now go on record as saying I approve of the new apple. Mainly because its not coming out of a ridiculous top hat. An apple is easily recognizable as a symbol of NYC. If it simply has a Mets logo on it or says 'Let's Go Mets' when it pops up, I'm very cool with that. However, if says something like 'Citi - the core of banking in the Big Apple' or some other stupid ad, I'm out baby.[/quote:30e9w3y7] Aw Soup, I never even considered they'd do something like that. Now I'm worried! G-Fafif Mar 24 2009 09:49 AM ="soupcan":303y480g]I'll now go on record as saying I approve of the new apple. Mainly because its not coming out of a ridiculous top hat.[/quote:303y480g] I think I liked the hat more than the apple a) because it brought me back to the Magic Is Back season that inspired its construction and because once they went from Mets Magic to HOME RUN, I got a continuing kick out of the incongruity of it. The relocated original apple is good to have on the premises, but I'm a touch disappointed that its new top hat is so small. More of a straw hat now. Alas, men haven't worn either since JFK decided the look wasn't for him. G-Fafif Mar 24 2009 09:50 AM ="metsmarathon":ws77e5n1]they're just shoving the citi-branding all up in our faces with every opportunity, those bastards! i mean, look at that repeated arc in the outfield grass, and tell me you don't see the affront of yet another little red rainbow. how fitting that this arc is painted in glorious shades of green, echoing the fields of taxpayer cash funneled into citibank and, therefore, citifield, from the ground, up.[/quote:ws77e5n1] And every mention of insurance runs is surely a thinly veiled bonus payment to the former AIG. metirish Mar 24 2009 09:57 AM And every Bill Webb shot of the NYC skyline from now on will be greeted by Gary with " great Citi shot". G-Fafif Mar 24 2009 10:05 AM "Good group of bench players Jerry Manuel has" will be a telltale sop to Citigroup. Pitchers who are automatic will be no more than plugs for Citi's network of ATMs. And when Delgado deposits one over the right field wall... metirish Mar 24 2009 10:27 AM Pitching changes will now be known as withdrawals - " Manuel goes to the mound to make a withdrawal , hey folks you too can make withdrawals all over Citi Field" G-Fafif Mar 24 2009 11:01 AM First reliever to get sent down for giving up a key hit will be written off as a toxic asset. SteveJRogers Mar 24 2009 07:08 PM From a Baseball-Fever.com poster, the Left Field Gate's mural is complete! One more banner space left around the corner, inbetween Casey and Gil. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 24 2009 07:45 PM ="SteveJRogers":1ddnwx4v] One more banner space left around the corner, inbetween Casey and Gil.[/quote:1ddnwx4v] Ah, yes... the Bobby Bo spot, you mean? batmagadanleadoff Mar 24 2009 08:01 PM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Mar 24 2009 08:14 PM ="SteveJRogers"]From a Baseball-Fever.com poster, the Left Field Gate's mural is complete! One more banner space left around the corner, inbetween Casey and Gil. The detail in the Stengel banner (your lower right) appears to be the Grote/Koosman embrace , Game 5, 1969 WS, yada yada, although it's not the iconic angle that includes Ed Charles' dance of joy. batmagadanleadoff Mar 24 2009 08:12 PM G-Fafif Mar 27 2009 06:08 AM Jeff Wilpon impresses Len Berman. soupcan Mar 27 2009 11:42 AM Hey, lookie who showed up to the party... I believe this is behind leftfield. On edit: Scooped! ="metsguyinmichigan"] The skyline lives! I'm glad to see that it made the trip over to Citi Field. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 27 2009 01:34 PM The scoreboard-topper's going to be in center; that concession-plex is the Danny Meyer street-food fantasia (mmm.... elote!). metsguyinmichigan Mar 27 2009 02:16 PM I like it! Too bad they couldn't find a wall somewhere to hang replicas of the blue and orange tiles that used to hang outside Shea, or one of the neon players -- though apparently they are incorporated into the carpet design in the clubhouse. apmorris Mar 29 2009 03:08 PM Opening day beta (from the webs) Farmer Ted Mar 29 2009 04:05 PM Yup, always one douchebag that opens an umbrella the size of Rhode Island inside the stadium. That effing thing hangs over three rows. metirish Mar 29 2009 04:13 PM saw on ABC News highlights from the game today , looks spacious , one punter complained that the area around the apple is very plain looking. The report mentioned that Bernie Madoff had season tickets in the platinum section behind home plate , valued at $40,000. The Mets say they will not go unused but didn't say how. batmagadanleadoff Mar 29 2009 04:28 PM If Wilpon followed his heart, he'd donate the seats to Hilda Chester's family. But Fred loves money even more than he loves the Dodgers. I wonder if the Mets make his top five. Edgy DC Mar 29 2009 04:50 PM Come on. We're indicting him for what you imagine he'd like to do? batmagadanleadoff Mar 29 2009 05:23 PM ="Edgy DC":z4d7oe86]Come on. We're indicting him for what you imagine he'd like to do?[/quote:z4d7oe86] We? You don't have to join me, but Fred opened the door for this kind of abuse -- yes, it's a straw man, or straw woman argument-- when he built a Mets Stadium in the image of Ebbets Field and then decided to tack on a rotunda, -- one of its most prominent features -- in honor of a Dodger. I don't mind the Ebbets reference so much. But that and a Jackie Robinson Routnda? Enough's enough. It's inappropriate, in my opinion. A Mets stadium is not the right place to honor a Dodger on a permanent basis -- any Dodger. Edgy DC Mar 29 2009 05:28 PM He was actually under intense public pressure to name the stadium after Robinson. That the rotunda --- and has anybody ever cared before what a rotunda was called --- was named after Robinson was him throwing a bone to the public, not sticking it to the public in his self-interest. batmagadanleadoff Mar 29 2009 05:32 PM ="Edgy DC":3662lti7]He was actually under intense public pressure to name the stadium after Robinson. That the rotunda --- and has anybody ever cared before what a rotunda was called --- was named after Robinson was him throwing a bone to the public, not sticking it to the public in his self-interest.[/quote:3662lti7] Why? And did George Steinbrenner face that same pressure? Or what about the owners of the St. Louis Cardinals and their new stadium? Philadelphia Phillies? Where's the Philadelphia version of the Jackie Robinson rotunda? And was Wilpon also under the same intense pressure to eliminate 10,000 seats from the new stadium and raise the prices of some tickets almost tenfold? Edgy DC Mar 29 2009 05:34 PM In order, Why is irrelevant. The point is that he was. No. No. Nothing that I don't know of. You're changing the subject. batmagadanleadoff Mar 29 2009 05:36 PM ="Edgy DC":jm0mylax]He was actually under intense public pressure to name the stadium after Robinson. That the rotunda --- and has anybody ever cared before what a rotunda was called --- was named after Robinson was him throwing a bone to the public, not sticking it to the public in his self-interest.[/quote:jm0mylax] By the way, Wilpon has been sticking it to the public in his self-interest throughout his entire tenure. The evidence is everywhere, in all the details, small and large. Crappy hot dogs. Mesh trucker caps for the old-timers. A parade of car dealers pulling numbers off the outfield wall. Edgy DC Mar 29 2009 05:37 PM Get some rest. batmagadanleadoff Mar 29 2009 05:41 PM I wasn't trying to change the subject. I just think that these baseball owners are powerful enough to do whatever they want to do, for the most part. Wilpon doesn't strike me as the kind of guy that would cave in to public pressure over the rotunda. I believe that he created the Jackie Robinson rotunda because he wanted to, and any explanation slightly inconsistent is just spin so as to rationalize the event in a way that would appeal to the largest number of people. In other words, his explanation has more to do with political correctness than sincerity. SteveJRogers Mar 29 2009 05:42 PM ="batmagadanleadoff":131szgo8]="Edgy DC":131szgo8]He was actually under intense public pressure to name the stadium after Robinson. That the rotunda --- and has anybody ever cared before what a rotunda was called --- was named after Robinson was him throwing a bone to the public, not sticking it to the public in his self-interest.[/quote:131szgo8] Why? And did George Steinbrenner face that same pressure? Or what about the owners of the St. Louis Cardinals and their new stadium? Philadelphia Phillies? Where's the Philadelphia version of the Jackie Robinson rotunda? And was Wilpon also under the same intense pressure to eliminate 10,000 seats from the new stadium and raise the prices of some tickets almost tenfold?[/quote:131szgo8] Because of Wilpon's ties to the Dodgers as a fan which made the Mets the "torch bearers" of the Dodger-Giant legacy. Well it did start with day one when the Met roster would feature ex-Dodgers and ex-Giants. It would continue on during Old Timers Day festivities during the '60s and '70s when Dodgers and Giants were trotted out and so on. Because it was at Shea where Bill Clinton and Bud Selig stood and made the pronouncement that 42 would be retired in perpetuity. Hell, because it was at Shea that they actually honored the 40th anniversary of Robinson's debut in 1987, check out the 1988 yearbook for a photo of that festivity. So, where were you in 1987 decrying why were the Mets honoring Robinson? batmagadanleadoff Mar 29 2009 05:51 PM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Mar 29 2009 05:53 PM ="SteveJRogers":37juno6t]="batmagadanleadoff":37juno6t]="Edgy DC":37juno6t]He was actually under intense public pressure to name the stadium after Robinson. That the rotunda --- and has anybody ever cared before what a rotunda was called --- was named after Robinson was him throwing a bone to the public, not sticking it to the public in his self-interest.[/quote:37juno6t] Why? And did George Steinbrenner face that same pressure? Or what about the owners of the St. Louis Cardinals and their new stadium? Philadelphia Phillies? Where's the Philadelphia version of the Jackie Robinson rotunda? And was Wilpon also under the same intense pressure to eliminate 10,000 seats from the new stadium and raise the prices of some tickets almost tenfold?[/quote:37juno6t] Because of Wilpon's ties to the Dodgers as a fan which made the Mets the "torch bearers" of the Dodger-Giant legacy. Well it did start with day one when the Met roster would feature ex-Dodgers and ex-Giants. It would continue on during Old Timers Day festivities during the '60s and '70s when Dodgers and Giants were trotted out and so on. Because it was at Shea where Bill Clinton and Bud Selig stood and made the pronouncement that 42 would be retired in perpetuity. Hell, because it was at Shea that they actually honored the 40th anniversary of Robinson's debut in 1987, check out the 1988 yearbook for a photo of that festivity. So, where were you in 1987 decrying why were the Mets honoring Robinson?[/quote:37juno6t] Wilpon's ties to the Dodgers are no greater than your ties to the Mets. He's a fan. OK ... a fan who was friends with Sandy Koufax before Koufax was anybody, but still, just a fan. There's nothing wrong with on-field festivities honoring opponents. Stan Musial was honored at the Polo Grounds. Lou Brock was honored on his last visit to Shea. Willie Stargell, too. Honoring is a time-honored baseball tradition probably employed by every team. Naming a part of your stadium after a member of the opposition? I don't agree. The Mets aren't, and shouldn't be the torch-bearers of the Dodgiant legacy, just as, likewise, the Dodgers need not erect a statute of Californian Tom Seaver. Edgy DC Mar 29 2009 05:51 PM ="batmagadanleadoff":213hxw3s]I wasn't trying to change the subject. I just think that these baseball owners are powerful enough to do whatever they want to do, for the most part. Wilpon doesn't strike me as the kind of guy that would cave in to public pressure over the rotunda. I believe that he created the Jackie Robinson rotunda because he wanted to, and any explanation slightly inconsistent is just spin so as to rationalize the event in a way that would appeal to the largest number of people. In other words, his explanation has more to do with political correctness than sincerity.[/quote:213hxw3s] Well, you just keep believing then. And "these baseball owners," of course, continues to change the subject. Anything that deviates from your hard-headed position is a "rationalization"? Nobody using mesh caps to broadly indict a billionnaire is positioning himself to talk about who is being rational. A rich guy runs his business to make money. And that pisses you off. Except when he doesn't. And that pisses you off. Come on. Just stop. Gwreck Mar 29 2009 05:54 PM ="batmagadanleadoff"] when he built a Mets Stadium in the image of Ebbets Field and then decided to tack on a rotunda, -- one of its most prominent features -- in honor of a Dodger. You've got things a little mixed up. The rotunda wasn't tacked on; it was deliberately planned to be the part of the stadium that is built in the image of Ebbets Field. Nowhere else in the park is reminiscent of Ebbets. Yes, Robinson was a Dodger. A perfunctory look inside the rotunda indicates that Robinson is being honored for much more than that. ]A Mets stadium is not the right place to honor a Dodger on a permanent basis -- any Dodger. Sorry, this Dodger's special. batmagadanleadoff Mar 29 2009 05:57 PM ="Edgy DC":2us8tl51]="batmagadanleadoff":2us8tl51]I wasn't trying to change the subject. I just think that these baseball owners are powerful enough to do whatever they want to do, for the most part. Wilpon doesn't strike me as the kind of guy that would cave in to public pressure over the rotunda. I believe that he created the Jackie Robinson rotunda because he wanted to, and any explanation slightly inconsistent is just spin so as to rationalize the event in a way that would appeal to the largest number of people. In other words, his explanation has more to do with political correctness than sincerity.[/quote:2us8tl51] Well, you just keep believing then. And "these baseball owners," of course, continues to change the subject. Anything that deviates from your hard-headed position is a "rationalization"? Nobody using mesh caps to broadly indict a billionnaire is positioning himself to talk about who is being rational. A rich guy runs his business to make money. And that pisses you off. Except when he doesn't. And that pisses you off. Come on. Just stop.[/quote:2us8tl51] I doubt that getting the old-timers decent baseball caps, or uniforms that resembled the ones they actually wore during their playing days would've made much of a dent to the bottom-line. How much money did Wilpon save on that deal -- one, maybe two thousand dollars? Edgy DC Mar 29 2009 05:58 PM I doubt that Fred Wilpon has any idea what you're talking about or which employee of an employee of an employee of his ordered the hats. I beg you. batmagadanleadoff Mar 29 2009 06:01 PM ="Gwreck"]="batmagadanleadoff"] when he built a Mets Stadium in the image of Ebbets Field and then decided to tack on a rotunda, -- one of its most prominent features -- in honor of a Dodger. You've got things a little mixed up. The rotunda wasn't tacked on; it was deliberately planned to be the part of the stadium that is built in the image of Ebbets Field. Nowhere else in the park is reminiscent of Ebbets. Yes, Robinson was a Dodger. A perfunctory look inside the rotunda indicates that Robinson is being honored for much more than that. ]A Mets stadium is not the right place to honor a Dodger on a permanent basis -- any Dodger. Sorry, this Dodger's special. I was using the phrase "tack on" as a term of art, not literally. I understand that the rotunda wasn't a last minute afterthought but rather, a key design element of the new stadium. But my point remains the same, even if it was tacked on. Yes, Jackie Robinson was very special. I agree. But let the Dodgers erect a Jackie Robinson rotunda. We'll just have to disagree on this one. When I buy the Mets, and build my own stadium to replace Citi Field, things are gonna change. SteveJRogers Mar 29 2009 06:26 PM ="batmagadanleadoff"] The Mets aren't, and shouldn't be the torch-bearers of the Dodgiant legacy, just as, likewise, the Dodgers need not erect a statute of Californian Tom Seaver. So, the Braves should take down the statue at The Ted honoring Georgian Ty Cobb? apmorris Mar 29 2009 06:33 PM ="batmagadanleadoff":b4so81jp] We'll just have to disagree on this one. When I buy the Mets, and build my own stadium to replace Citi Field, things are gonna change.[/quote:b4so81jp] Please name it Shea. I think CitiField looks like a Good Ol' Timey Baseball Themed Amusement Park. Maybe great for a game but it has nothing to do the Modern Post-War New York that the Worlds Fair and the Mets (and Shea) were born out of, you know - the future they promised us that never happened? The Mets are NOT the History of Baseball team and that stadium would look a lot better in the middle of a strip mall in New Jersey - between Flinger's and Chotchkie's - than in the middle of a parking lot in Flushing Meadows. It is way too backward looking and not forward looking enough. I think. batmagadanleadoff Mar 29 2009 06:35 PM ="SteveJRogers"]="batmagadanleadoff"] The Mets aren't, and shouldn't be the torch-bearers of the Dodgiant legacy, just as, likewise, the Dodgers need not erect a statute of Californian Tom Seaver. So, the Braves should take down the statue at The Ted honoring Georgian Ty Cobb? Not if they don't want to. Plus, the Hank Aaron and Warren Spahn statues are mitigating factors. ________________________ **Photo widths edited by admin on 3/29** apmorris Mar 29 2009 07:56 PM ] the Hank Aaron and Warren Spahn statues they both have BRAVES on their jerseys (and statues) - just thought I'd point that out. soupcan Mar 30 2009 07:10 AM ="apmorris"] ="Farmer Ted"]Yup, always one douchebag that opens an umbrella the size of Rhode Island inside the stadium. That effing thing hangs over three rows. I believe that there are some stadia that do not allow people to bring umbrellas inside. Now that's a good rule. metirish Mar 30 2009 07:13 AM See , I would be embarrassed to open one that size , or if the person I was with opened one like that.Is that even an umbrella , looks like something that one would use on the beach for shade. Benjamin Grimm Mar 30 2009 07:15 AM I'm no fan of ads, but I kinda like that big Pepsi Cola sign. It's as much "advertising art" as it is advertising. Isn't it very similar to the vintage sign in Queens that can be seen from across the East River in Manhattan? soupcan Mar 30 2009 07:16 AM Shit like that always amazes me. You're in a stadium watching a game with people behind and next to you. You know you'll be blocking people's views. Why do some people feel so entitled to doing stuff like that? Do they just not think? Are they stupid? Selfish? All of the above? I just don't understand that kind of behavior. Pack a fucking poncho. Edgy DC Mar 30 2009 07:25 AM Douchebag neighbors. Story of Soupy's life. soupcan Mar 30 2009 07:28 AM So true. metirish Mar 30 2009 07:51 AM ="Benjamin Grimm":1v08570j]I'm no fan of ads, but I kinda like that big Pepsi Cola sign. It's as much "advertising art" as it is advertising. Isn't it very similar to the vintage sign in Queens that can be seen from across the East River in Manhattan?[/quote:1v08570j] Good call , the sign was one of the first things that jumped out at me when they were showing highlights on the News.I am trying to remember what other stadium has a similar sign , Fenway? soupcan Mar 30 2009 08:01 AM Comerica in Detroit... SteveJRogers Mar 30 2009 08:32 AM ="Benjamin Grimm":2n7rxdgz]I'm no fan of ads, but I kinda like that big Pepsi Cola sign. It's as much "advertising art" as it is advertising. Isn't it very similar to the vintage sign in Queens that can be seen from across the East River in Manhattan?[/quote:2n7rxdgz] An exact replica actually. Well except the recent Pepsi "dot" replaces the vintage Pepsi bottle from that iconic signage. soupcan Mar 30 2009 08:44 AM ="SteveJRogers"]="Benjamin Grimm"]I'm no fan of ads, but I kinda like that big Pepsi Cola sign. It's as much "advertising art" as it is advertising. Isn't it very similar to the vintage sign in Queens that can be seen from across the East River in Manhattan? An exact replica actually. Well except the recent Pepsi "dot" replaces the vintage Pepsi bottle from that iconic signage. Close but not 'exact'. G-Fafif Mar 30 2009 11:01 AM Company-issued release: ]Pepsi gains branding rights to the name-entitled "Pepsi Porch," the 1,284-seat area in right field that extends over the playing field. This interactive brand showcase at the Pepsi Porch will immerse fans in a Mets and Pepsi experience with special entertainment programming broadcast to those in attendance and watching Mets games on SNY, the television home of the Mets. A 37-foot by 89-foot Pepsi sign, evocative of the iconic Pepsi-Cola sign facing Manhattan from Long Island City, will sit atop the Pepsi Porch. The sign will face into the ballpark and be visible from downtown Flushing and nearby highways and mass transit lines. Benjamin Grimm Mar 30 2009 11:12 AM I don't imagine that most fans will want to be "immersed in a Mets and Pepsi experience" while at the ballgame. I know I wouldn't. I just want to watch the game, without any immersion at all. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 30 2009 11:13 AM Like the signage... mildly-- very mildly-- put off by the modern-Pepsi-dot-with-vintage-Pepsi-lettering juxtaposition of ad styles. From the woulda-coulda-shoulda department: making the outfield "bridges" a little more evocative of the Triboro/Queensboro/Whitestone trifecta (not sure I buy the supposed Hell-Gate connection) would have made for a nice little architectural curlicue. OlerudOwned Mar 30 2009 11:35 AM Wouldn't have minded immersing my eyes in Pepsi at the ends of the last two seasons. metirish Mar 30 2009 11:41 AM The language of such releases are all the same , jeez sounds like I'll have the expreince of my life if only I was sitting in the Pepsi porch. I do like Pepsi though Farmer Ted Mar 30 2009 01:13 PM The Pepsi sign is a big FUCK YOU to Atlanta and Ted Turner's phallic Coke Bottle. metirish Apr 02 2009 01:24 PM Head groundskeeper Pete Flynn marks the baselines and grooms home plate at Citi Field. (Newsday / Audrey C. Tiernan / March 25, 2009) Pinball machines in the Mets' new clubhouse at Citi Field. (Newsday / Audrey C. Tiernan / March 25, 2009) Pepsi porch I like the detail in the carpet. John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 02 2009 01:31 PM Those pinball machines are too close to the wall, and one another, to be playable. However, I think can whip Jose Reyes' butt on either table. themetfairy Apr 02 2009 01:39 PM I love the pool table! DocTee Apr 02 2009 01:41 PM The pool table is coin operated? You can buy any of these items in 35 years when the Mets move to a new stadium. I call dibs on the leather recliners. soupcan Apr 02 2009 01:59 PM This carpet is god-awful. Benjamin Grimm Apr 02 2009 02:23 PM I agree. It's garish. It's nice that they're honoring Shea with the neon players, but those big grey baseballs are hideous. The first thing I'd do is replace that carpet with something with a blue-and-orange 1960's Shea Stadium shingle pattern. Edgy DC Apr 02 2009 02:27 PM I'd do a pattern based on an acne-covered back. soupcan Apr 03 2009 10:44 AM Delgado, last night. Cool, huh? Edgy DC Apr 03 2009 10:51 AM How does the warning track soil/clay stay packed like that? Fman99 Apr 03 2009 10:53 AM ="Benjamin Grimm":29ka38qg]I don't imagine that most fans will want to be "immersed in a Mets and Pepsi experience" while at the ballgame. I know I wouldn't. I just want to watch the game, without any immersion at all.[/quote:29ka38qg] Little known fact, the Jimi Hendrix Experience was originally known as the Mets and Pepsi Experience. metirish Apr 03 2009 01:04 PM ="soupcan"]Delgado, last night. Cool, huh? Beautiful picture , one for the mantle I should think. This story went with that picture in the NY Times ] Mets Get a Late-Night Sneak Preview of Citi Field By BEN SHPIGEL Published: April 3, 2009 Out from the buses they spilled, marching through a gate, down a corridor and around a corner until, finally, there it was. Home. The Mets� shiny, new clubhouse awaited. And as Carlos Delgado poked his head inside at about 10:55 p.m. Thursday, he surveyed the sheer size of it all and said, �Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the big leagues.� His teammates, arriving at Citi Field fresh off a flight from Florida that landed two and a half hours late, followed suit, each more mesmerized than the next. After locating his locker, Jos� Reyes opened a cabinet and wondered aloud how much clothes he could fit inside. Pedro Feliciano plopped into his ergonomic chair. Shaking his head, Razor Shines could manage only a �Wow.� Then he said it again. �I�m overwhelmed,� Bobby Parnell said. �The other guys, they�re used to this.� Their curiosity piqued, players wheeled their hand luggage to their lockers and started to explore. John Maine and Mike Pelfrey bounded down the steps, past the sprint track. �Mainer, you want to race?� Pelfrey said. Ascending another set of stairs, they funneled into the dugout, joining Delgado and Carlos Beltr�n. Everyone looked up, almost instinctively, and then out, to the fences, scoping out the dimensions. Ryan Church, pointing toward the 415-foot marker in right-center field, told Delgado, �I don�t think they made it deep enough.� For the occasion, the lights had been turned on � �I should have brought sunscreen,� Darren O�Day said � and the grass glistened. But with rain in the forecast for Friday, when the Mets are scheduled to play Boston in an exhibition game, a tarp lay over the infield, preventing Johan Santana and friends from climbing the mound. Undeterred, many of the pitchers walked in the grass toward right-center, toward the bullpen, as quickly as their suits and dress shoes would allow them. Every few feet, J. J. Putz stopped, pointed the camera on his cellphone and snapped. The Mets occupy the bottom level of the two-tiered bullpen � just as the Phillies do in their ballpark � and the bullpen catcher Dave Racaniello wandered in. Assessing where the plate will be, he got into a crouch for a few seconds. As �In My Life� by the Beatles played, the lights suddenly went out. All part of the plan, explained Jeff Wilpon, the team�s chief operating officer, as a montage of highlights, player introductions and construction footage played on the video screen. Luis Alicea, the first-base coach, spotted Wilpon and thanked him. �Beautiful,� Alicea told him. �Absolutely beautiful.� When it ended, Wilpon escorted everyone into a tunnel behind the plate that led to the Jackie Robinson Rotunda. As workers took a break from polishing the terrazzo floors, Jerry Manuel and Sandy Alomar Sr. walked slowly, taking time to read each of Robinson�s nine values, which are inscribed in the floor. Behind them, Putz slipped his feet into Robinson�s footprints. They matched. �Size 14,� Putz said. On the way back inside, Howard Johnson took a detour to show two of his apt pupils, Nick Evans and Daniel Murphy, the video room and the batting cage. Murphy gazed through the window. The door was locked. �Tomorrow,� Murphy said. soupcan Apr 03 2009 02:28 PM Stole this from baseball-fever.com... metirish Apr 03 2009 02:30 PM That needs a lot of dents in it.....too shiny. Edgy DC Apr 03 2009 02:38 PM Needs a top hat is what it needs. Strikes me that a cool reverence to the polo grounds could have been done by putting a recess in the wall out there.

it says he signed with LA on rotoworld but the terms of the deal havent been disclosed yet.

]situational lefties: Joe Beimel, RP (31) -type ( Dennys Reyes, RP (31) -type ( Will Ohman, RP (31) Someone brought up in the Griffey thread what they saw as a need for another lefty. I disagree. I thought one of the problems with the 2008 Mets was that Schoenweis and Feliciano were redundant- they both got lefties out but couldn't handle righties- and this forced the managers to use them in situations they weren't suited for, leading them to fail. One situational lefty is all I want to see on the team. If theres a Dennis Cook out there who can get righties out too that would be great, but I don't see him in these guys. Ohman and Reyes both get abused by righties, Beimel actually isn't too bad for his career but he was the past 2 years.

the other side to that argument is that Mets starters could relax because they had early leads from the Mets' early scoring. I don't buy into any idea that late runs are at all more important than the same number of early runs.

="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":2ac33j35]="metirish":2ac33j35]Johnny Damon - "using steroids is wrong but he didn't commit a crime or like go out their and kill someone".....[/quote:2ac33j35] You know, like Leyritz. /Why, yes, my tongue works fine-- why do you ask?[/quote:2ac33j35] Sorry Johnny, whatever he took was probably illegal in the U.S. Edgy DC Feb 18 2009 05:59 AM I actually tihnk a human being must be sacrificed every time Madonna copulates. metirish Feb 18 2009 07:06 AM More from Johnny....to the print media he had this to say..... ] "It's unfortunate he made some stupid mistakes. He's a guy who definitely did not need it, and I definitely do not condone it....But there could be a lot worse things he could've been doing out there, (like) murdering someone"It's unfortunate he made some stupid mistakes. He's a guy who definitely did not need it, and I definitely do not condone it....But there could be a lot worse things he could've been doing out there, (like) murdering someone "We can go out there and support him," Damon added, "because we know we can't go out there and win a World Series without him." Rodriguez's amatuer hour defense defies logic , I didn't expect anything else from him but it couldn't have been more staged if he were on Broadway. Frayed Knot Feb 18 2009 07:06 AM ="Edgy DC":1kos7lsf]I actually tihnk a human being must be sacrificed every time Madonna copulates.[/quote:1kos7lsf] That would explain all the death and destruction in the world. Re: Damon -- His name came up in a round-table type sports discussion I was listening to and the panel was deftly using euphemisms like "an uncomplicated man" when describing him in order to keep from flat-out saying that he's basically box-of-rocks stupid. Edgy DC Feb 18 2009 07:19 AM Yes, Johnny, murder, manslaughter --- these things are worse than cheating at baseball. Thank you for your incisive analysis. For a counterpoint, here's Ambiorix Burgos.

Taking points away for strikeouts sucks, so does 2 points for a steal (and they don't even take away for CS??), Phillips should be a definite keeper under that system. Keep Youkilis over Atkins, Atkins is always in trade rumors and woe be to his owners when he leaves Coors Field Atkins home: .337/.394/.527 Atkins away: .260/.328/.424

="Frayed Knot":3kk8fb02] Maybe that's not everyone's definition of "clutch" (a word that's becoming the third-rail of baseball talk) but I think that's what he meant by it.[/quote:3kk8fb02] When baseball writers say "clutch" its actually being used as a synonym for "yankeeness" Edgy DC Feb 17 2009 05:24 PM Yeah, but Noble isn't like that. And when you're talking about opening up your strike zone, Berra (Noble grew up on the 1950s Yankees) is naturally going to come to mind. He's the most famous bad ball hitter whether you're a Yankee fan or not. Frayed Knot Feb 17 2009 05:29 PM "Well, Yogi made it work for him." That he did. Over 8,000 trips to the plate and just 400 Ks. Word on him was that you just couldn't get one by him no matter where you put it - particularly once there were two strikes on him. If nothing else he'd just foul them off all day until he got a good one. "He was a terrific hitter, and I'm sure some of the current guys could learn from him." Of course there was the story from 'Ball Four' where Yogi was stumbling over his words while trying to teach some young hitters a few things before just getting frustrated and saying; "oh just watch how I do it". "But I seriously doubt that his fishing trips did more damage than Williams's patience." On the whole, no. But in those occasional spots where the hurler was trying not to give something too good Williams would walk, Berra might reach out and hit a double. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 17 2009 09:49 PM ="Edgy DC"]Yeah, but Noble isn't like that. And when you're talking about opening up your strike zone, Berra (Noble grew up on the 1950s Yankees) is naturally going to come to mind. He's the most famous bad ball hitter whether you're a Yankee fan or not. Noble, however, is the kind of guy who values ineffable, eye-of-the-beholder "clutch" over actual numbers (Can't find stats right now, but I dug earlier upon reading the article-- Baseball Cube, mebbe?-- and Williams' OBP and BA in close-and-lates trumps Berra's, perceptions aside). Noble also tends to undervalue OBP, sneer at VORP and generally disdain anything stats-wise that smells modern or mathy to him. I tend to read him for the news, and take the 'nalysis with a clump of salt. That said, sounds like a fun drill. (Says a man with a Wii-related elbow-stress injury.) John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 17 2009 10:07 PM I like Noble for his Spring Training reports more than anything. He really gets me in the mood. Disturbing I know. batmagadanleadoff Feb 17 2009 10:16 PM I'd bet there's a lot of apocryphalness to this whole Berra discussion and that over time, people tended to have forgotten those instances where Berra grounded out weakly to second base on a pitch that was easily ball four. I didn't see either of these two All-time greats play, but the numbers are the numbers. Williams was the better hitter of the two. And there's no reasonable way to spin it otherwise. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 17 2009 10:39 PM I do like the spring training stuff too (although guys like David Lennon are doing his job and then some so far this spring, minus his biases). I also like him for the fortitude it must have taken him to get through life with a pumpkin for a head. /For instant commenting fun, just ad hominem! Frayed Knot Feb 18 2009 07:00 AM ="batmagadanleadoff":1i832gc7]I'd bet there's a lot of apocryphalness to this whole Berra discussion ... but the numbers are the numbers. Williams was the better hitter of the two. And there's no reasonable way to spin it otherwise.[/quote:1i832gc7] And I don't think anyone's trying to do that. batmagadanleadoff Feb 18 2009 09:26 AM ="Frayed Knot":3h1soavs]="batmagadanleadoff":3h1soavs]I'd bet there's a lot of apocryphalness to this whole Berra discussion ... but the numbers are the numbers. Williams was the better hitter of the two. And there's no reasonable way to spin it otherwise.[/quote:3h1soavs] And I don't think anyone's trying to do that.[/quote:3h1soavs] And that's a good thing!

="seawolf17":3rs9xhqj]This press conference is insipid.[/quote:3rs9xhqj] What more did you want him to say? I relize the media needs to keep beating it to death because they have columns to fill, but I've heard all I need to hear already. metirish Feb 17 2009 12:52 PM It's ended.... Rodriguez ended by saying he wants "to make the world a better place" , words that would inspire Bernie Taupin. John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 17 2009 12:57 PM John Harper in the meantime is suckered into taking Texiera's word he's never used, why he's "cleaner than Derek Jeter if that's even possible" (yes, he actually wrote that today). themetfairy Feb 17 2009 02:01 PM ="metirish":2kjyziqi]It's ended.... Rodriguez ended by saying he wants "to make the world a better place" , words that would inspire Bernie Taupin.[/quote:2kjyziqi] How does he feel about World Peace? holychicken Feb 17 2009 03:03 PM ="Ashie62":2gt1v9x0]2. Have Selig sac up and designate 1996-2003 the "live ball era" or whatever you would like to call it.[/quote:2gt1v9x0] The "small balls era" makes more sense. metirish Feb 17 2009 08:14 PM Johnny Damon - "using steroids is wrong but he didn't commit a crime or like go out their and kill someone"..... Edgy DC Feb 17 2009 08:20 PM Is that something he wrote or said? metirish Feb 17 2009 08:29 PM I was watching the news and he said it, not the exact quote from me but close . MFS62 Feb 17 2009 09:17 PM ="themetfairy":67aky83c]="metirish":67aky83c]It's ended.... Rodriguez ended by saying he wants "to make the world a better place" , words that would inspire Bernie Taupin.[/quote:67aky83c] How does he feel about World Peace?[/quote:67aky83c] It doesn't matter. He's not competing for Miss America. Later LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 17 2009 09:57 PM ="metirish":cg5944xb]Johnny Damon - "using steroids is wrong but he didn't commit a crime or like go out their and kill someone".....[/quote:cg5944xb] You know, like Leyritz. /Why, yes, my tongue works fine-- why do you ask? Nymr83 Feb 18 2009 02:26 AM ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":2ac33j35]="metirish":2ac33j35]Johnny Damon - "using steroids is wrong but he didn't commit a crime or like go out their and kill someone".....[/quote:2ac33j35] You know, like Leyritz. /Why, yes, my tongue works fine-- why do you ask?[/quote:2ac33j35] Sorry Johnny, whatever he took was probably illegal in the U.S. Edgy DC Feb 18 2009 05:59 AM I actually tihnk a human being must be sacrificed every time Madonna copulates. metirish Feb 18 2009 07:06 AM More from Johnny....to the print media he had this to say..... ] "It's unfortunate he made some stupid mistakes. He's a guy who definitely did not need it, and I definitely do not condone it....But there could be a lot worse things he could've been doing out there, (like) murdering someone"It's unfortunate he made some stupid mistakes. He's a guy who definitely did not need it, and I definitely do not condone it....But there could be a lot worse things he could've been doing out there, (like) murdering someone "We can go out there and support him," Damon added, "because we know we can't go out there and win a World Series without him." Rodriguez's amatuer hour defense defies logic , I didn't expect anything else from him but it couldn't have been more staged if he were on Broadway. Frayed Knot Feb 18 2009 07:06 AM ="Edgy DC":1kos7lsf]I actually tihnk a human being must be sacrificed every time Madonna copulates.[/quote:1kos7lsf] That would explain all the death and destruction in the world. Re: Damon -- His name came up in a round-table type sports discussion I was listening to and the panel was deftly using euphemisms like "an uncomplicated man" when describing him in order to keep from flat-out saying that he's basically box-of-rocks stupid. Edgy DC Feb 18 2009 07:19 AM Yes, Johnny, murder, manslaughter --- these things are worse than cheating at baseball. Thank you for your incisive analysis. For a counterpoint, here's Ambiorix Burgos.

="Edgy DC":3foyo3u8]Albert Pujols, out. The pattern seems that any player who had any sort of offseason surgery, and hasn't yet returned to action (like playing winter ball) is uninsurable.[/quote:3foyo3u8] Seems like a wise policy to me. F. Garcia was injured, if he wants to make the Mets' opening day roster he's probably better off avoiding the WBC anyway and concentrating on getting healthy to the Mets' satisfaction. I hope Zambrano gets rocked. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 17 2009 10:58 PM Endy and K-Rod are playing for the 'Zuelas, too. I'll enjoy the games, I'm sure... but a little part of me will be rooting against with too many of Flushing's finest on 'em, if only in hope of fewer injuries. Also, needs more team mascots. Edgy DC Feb 18 2009 05:55 AM Endy was the unlikely star for Venezueal three years ago. Brought his power stick then also. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 02 2009 01:17 PM Fare thee well, Metsies, and come back safe: Beltran Cora Delgado Feliciano Figueroa (shouldn't he be reppin' Brooklyn?) Ollie P. Putz Reyes KRod Wright Am I missing anyone? Edgy DC Mar 02 2009 01:56 PM You've got to be. I saw reports saying the Mets and Red Sox led the bigs in WBC-bound players with 15 each. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 02 2009 02:01 PM Had everyone on the 40-man... but was missing a handful, yet. As broken down by country in Newsday: Australia Stefan Welch Canada Shawn Bowman Dominican Republic Jose Reyes Mexico Elmer Dessens Oliver Perez Panama Ruben Tejada Puerto Rico Pedro Feliciano Nelson Figueroa Alex Cora Carlos Delgado Carlos Beltran Jesus Feliciano United States J.J. Putz David Wright Venezuela Francisco Rodriguez So... who else is rooting for Cuba-Japan II? Nymr83 Mar 02 2009 02:04 PM Shawn Bowman (Canada), Stefan Welch (Australia), Ruben Tejada (Panama), and Jesus Feliciano (Puerto Rico) are all listed as part of the Mets' organization and are on the rosters on espn.com edit- i got beat to it, but Elmer Dessens is listed as a Brave not a Met here: [url:3izz30jv]http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/worldclassic2009/news/story?id=3844570[/url:3izz30jv] Edgy DC Mar 05 2009 11:17 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Mar 24 2009 11:38 AM So, if you're the manager of Equipo DR, and you lose Alex Rodriguez, who is your thirdbaseman? Do you go to Adrian Beltre or do you move Hanley Ramirez (or Miguel Tejada) over there and free up short for Jose Reyes? Nymr83 Mar 05 2009 12:13 PM mpve Ramirez so that you have no trouble starting both him and Reyes Edgy DC Mar 09 2009 10:11 AM Answer is Tejada. Yeah, I'd move Hanley there also, or move one of them to second, keep Tejada at third and go with the three shortstop lineup. metirish Mar 09 2009 10:27 AM In his minor and major league career Rameriz has played one game at third , Alou can't just slot him in there surely. Edgy DC Mar 09 2009 10:32 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Mar 09 2009 10:36 AM Porque no? It's about catching and throwing. If Tejada can do it, why not Hanley Ramirez? The key is getting the bats in the lineup. Given a few days to work out in the spot, will he be so much worse than a Fernando Tatis that the giveback with his offensive ability isn't worth it? Anyhow, at this point, he's the better weapon, so if you won't move him to third or Reyes to second or outfield or even one of them to first, Reyes is left to be a a pinch-runner. metirish Mar 09 2009 10:33 AM Sounds good but I wonder what his club would think about moving him. Edgy DC Mar 09 2009 10:44 AM If some alleged negative consequence of Ramirez playing third for a few games is upsetting Florida, I'd sure like Alou to push the issue to find out exactly how much kowtowing the WBC managers are expected to do. At any rate, nobody stopped him from moving Tejada over. John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 09 2009 10:46 AM The Snooze tried, not very hard not very effectively, to make Reyes' remark that he's be play wherever Alou asked into a controversy which "may make Met management cringe" in a tortured allusion to the Matsui-at-SS thing in '04. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 09 2009 01:56 PM ="Edgy DC":2elgx6dp]Porque no? It's about catching and throwing. If Tejada can do it, why not Hanley Ramirez? The key is getting the bats in the lineup. Given a few days to work out in the spot, will he be so much worse than a Fernando Tatis that the giveback with his offensive ability isn't worth it? Anyhow, at this point, he's the better weapon, so if you won't move him to third or Reyes to second or outfield or even one of them to first, Reyes is left to be a a pinch-runner.[/quote:2elgx6dp] Porque no? This tournament means a LOT more to the Dominicans than it does to us. The criticism from the leadup and after game one has been so harsh, GM Stan Javier's already tendered his verbal resignation, effective after the games. One key error by an out-of-place guy, and who knows what happens to Felipe Alou's house postgame. They shoot people over dominoes in the DR. (Well, okay... the psychotic, 100-mph-armed ones whose names rhyme with "Gurgos," anyway.) Edgy DC Mar 09 2009 02:49 PM Well, like I said, they already are playing a shortstop out of position, and world stayed intact. High stakes mean high pressure. It's no place for the weak-kneed, but you still want to make the most effective decision. I think most any shortstop can play anywhere else on the infield with modest preparation. Benjamin Grimm Mar 09 2009 02:52 PM ="Edgy DC":1u447jdd]I think most any shortstop can play anywhere else on the infield with modest preparation.[/quote:1u447jdd] I would think so. And the difference between third base and shortstop is, I think, less than the difference between second and short. At third the key difference is that you have to react a bit quicker, and at second it's the trickier turn of the double play. MFS62 Mar 09 2009 06:42 PM Many years ago, I spoke with Yank utility player Gil McDougald who played in the majors for several years. http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/mcdougi01.shtml I asked him about the difference in playing the three positions and about the preparation for playing each. He mentioned the things you folks said above. Then he added that it only took him a few throws during pre-game at the position he was going to play that day to get his arm ready. That surprised me. I guess that's why he was so valuable to the Yanks of that era. Later metirish Mar 18 2009 01:56 PM I like the opening paragraph. That scout for the Marlins talking about the Koreans using BP to work on moving runners over and hitting to the opposite field is what Manuel was preaching at the start of camp. I wonder if that is still a big part of BP for the Mets. Scouts See Works of Art in Asian Teams� Workouts ] By ALAN SCHWARZ Published: March 18, 2009 SAN DIEGO � He could see Meadowlark Lemon turning two, almost hear �Sweet Georgia Brown� whistling through vacuous Petco Park. As Japanese and Korean infielders gobbled up grounders during infield practice Tuesday and whipped the balls among themselves in bouncy syncopation, Mark Weidemaier sensed he was watching a different sport, a different show. �They�re the Harlem Globetrotters,� said Weidemaier, who has spent this week scouting the San Diego bracket of the World Baseball Classic for the Los Angeles Dodgers. �They�re not flashy or showy, I don�t mean that. But the footwork and timing. They�re going full bore, full speed. They go through every play that needs to be made in the game. They�ll get more ground balls than a big-leaguer takes in a week.� Baseball scouts are known for watching games, but the best in the business focus just as much on pregame practice, sometimes more. Three games can pass without getting to see how a shortstop can flash into the hole, or how well a second baseman charges a slow grounder. But when top Asian teams take batting practice, a scout�s inner aesthete awakens to the beauty of the game. Tuesday night � when Korea beat Japan, 4-1, to advance to this weekend�s W.B.C. semifinals � presented a double shot for the two dozen scouts in attendance. All of them want to be prepared in case any player becomes available to be signed, and both teams� hour of pregame drills had oodles to eyeball. �Korea has a B.P. routine they use where it�s more about moving runners over and hitting to the opposite field,� said Orrin Freeman, a longtime scout for the Florida Marlins who has watched international baseball since the 1980s. �You watch a major league team in the United States take B.P., and most of the guys are just playing home run derby.� As Japan and Korea practiced before Tuesday�s game, Freeman watched from the loge seats behind first base. He saw a distinctly Korean defensive drill in which any ball that goes beyond outfielder depth draws an infielder deep onto the grass to take a relatively short cutoff throw, in large part because third-base coaches tend to hold runners if cutoff men already have the ball. After Korea left the field, Japanese infielders took fungoed grounders at almost infield-in depth, pushing their reflexes so that the real game would feel easier, not unlike how a hitter might swing three bats in the on-deck circle. Rob Ducey, a former major league outfielder who scouts for the Toronto Blue Jays, sat beside the third-base dugout and enjoyed a sonata of skills rarely seen in the majors. He saw Japanese shortstop Yasuyuki Kataoka field grounders in perfect position to turn double plays, and other infielders moving to balls on angles that would make Euclid proud. Korean third baseman Bum Ho Lee charged grounders with the intensity of October, which for many foreign players this W.B.C. might as well be. �They work their craft a whole lot more than we do,� Ducey said. �They work on their swings instead of being pull, pull, pull.� Asked how a typical major-leaguer might respond to pregame practices as intense as those of Asian teams, Ducey said: �They�d feel like it was overkill � �I don�t want to get gassed.� Major league players, not all of them, but they do enough to get by because physically they�re such gifted athletes.� Not unlike how Asia�s practices are more rigorously exacting than those in the major leagues, several scouts said that Japan�s infield drills are generally more taut than Korea�s, a difference they ascribed to Korea�s having larger players with more power and less reliance on basic run-at-a-time fundamentals. Cleanup hitter Tae Kyun Kim packs 220 pounds on his six-foot frame, while first baseman Dae Ho Lee stands a downright behemoth 6-foot-4, 264. Japan has only one regular who weighs as much as 205: catcher Kenji Johjima, who perhaps not coincidentally makes his living with the Seattle Mariners. �The Japanese, they are far superior fundamentally,� said Ducey, the Blue Jays� coordinator of Pacific Rim operations. �They take thousands of ground balls a week, not just the young guys, all of them. The Japanese run hard down the line all the time. Koreans, it�s a little haphazard at times. And Koreans are generally more physical, more aggressive at the plate. They�re more suited for our game.� And still, a few hours later, the Koreans proved that they were plenty fundamental, more so, on this night, than Japan. They beat Japan on execution alone, all in the first inning. It started with the first two batters of the game: second baseman Keun Woo Jeong grabbed a high chopper and threw to first to barely nip Japan�s speedy Ichiro Suzuki, and on the next play, first baseman Tae Kyun Kim dived to his right for a hard ground ball and threw to the pitcher hustling over to cover first. Rather than an early first-and-second, no-out jam, the inning soon ended peacefully. And in the bottom half of the inning, Japan looked uncharacteristically clumsy. After a leadoff single, second baseman Akinori Iwamura double-clutched a ground ball in the hole for what was ruled a single; later, with Iwamura trying to start a double play, Kataoka could not handle Iwamura�s low throw and got no out at all. Two batters later, Korea�s Jin Young Lee stroked a beautiful opposite-field single through the left side for two runs, a 3-0 Korea lead and San Diego�s best imitation of Tony Gwynn in years. With the loss, Japan left itself having to play Cuba on Wednesday night to stay alive in the tournament it won three years ago. Disappointing for Japanese fans, but a treat for American scouts. Just another day at the symphony. �Watching the Japanese fungo hitters is great,� Weidemaier noted. �They�re hitting every type of ball that can happen to an infielder: to the left and right, backhand, sharp one-hoppers, backspin, top spin, slow rollers. Rat-a-tat-tat, they�re so precise in all their movements. To me, that�s what makes this game so beautiful.� metirish Mar 24 2009 07:36 AM I think this quote from Davey Johnson in a way ties in nicely with the observation above from the scout. ] "I'm kinda feeling like Earl Weaver, I don't push the running game," Johnson said. "I don't think that was a big factor when I was playing in Japan. I don't think it is today. I think the stolen base and the bunt base hit, those are becoming less and less a factor in the game." Is "small ball" as Davey suggests becoming less a factor in the MLB game ? Edgy DC Mar 24 2009 07:41 AM A difficulty in such discussions is that we treat "small ball" as a monolith. Not all small ball approaches have the same merit. metirish Mar 24 2009 07:47 AM True , I shouldn't have used that term. Edgy DC Mar 24 2009 08:01 AM Not at all. It's how the writers use it. metsmarathon Mar 24 2009 08:34 AM americans love to americanize their sports. and by that, i mean that we love to turn every sport into football. american football. who needs quickness and finesse when you can have power and strength? we prefer our sports to be blunt instruments presided over by blunter athletes. Edgy DC Mar 24 2009 11:40 AM Not a bad allusion. Centerfield Mar 24 2009 11:58 AM Dae Ho Lee. Not about speed and quickness. Not to rain on the "Playing baseball the right way" parade, but am I the only one that thinks the Asian players lack fundamentals? At least at the plate anyway. They all step in the bucket, they all overswing, and some of their leg kicks are ridiculous. There isn't a short, compact swing on either team.

="Frayed Knot":1zx3dmv0]YAWN![/quote:1zx3dmv0] yup. G-Fafif Feb 15 2009 09:27 AM If he had said "I think we will win the division," it would have been run-of-the-mill first day of camp talk. Amazing how this TTB cliche has become charged with "controversy". LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 15 2009 12:28 PM Nice to have a closer who says what he thinks for a change. Anyone taking odds on when a "Sabe tu sitio, rook" sign goes up on F-Mart's locker? LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 15 2009 12:42 PM BTW, Greg... pre-bought my copy Saturday. Do you know when Amazon's shipping FAFIF? metirish Feb 15 2009 06:35 PM Original..... G-Fafif Feb 16 2009 09:38 AM ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":7xh33bjb]BTW, Greg... pre-bought my copy Saturday. Do you know when Amazon's shipping FAFIF?[/quote:7xh33bjb] Somebody else who ordered told me he was told it ships on March 18 but I don't know for sure. Before Opening Day is what I've been saying to be on the safe side but I get the impression it will be by late March. Thank you for patronage.

We're back for '09. Name: Cranepool League password: nocollapsein09 league# 88637 Live Draft: The Last Sunday in March (the 29th) at 7:30 PM EST All rules have been copied exactly from last year's league, but are open for discussion. Please don't invite outsiders (unless they were in the league last year) until we've given Cranepoolers the chance to sign up.

]Key words here are "minor league contract." The more the merrier. ]Omar has said this is mainly a way to stock ST while the WBC folks are away, a way to stock Buffalo for the summer, and an insurance policy against the unexpected. I'm really glad to see the Mets learning from what I consider to be past mistakes ("Lima Time")

he's probably pushing 40, i'm glad the Mets have brought in Livan, Redding, and Garcia. Depth is good.

My guess for the bullpen would be the same 5 guys you called locks as well as O'Day. The last man will be Stokes if Redding is the 5th starter and Redding if he isn't the 5th starter. I think any of the other 5th starter candidates wouldn't end up as longmen but starting in triple-A instead if they dont make the cut.

="metirish":qewt4app] Pedro Martinez - 300/1 Odds are based on which pitcher will start as the Mets first fifth starter.[/quote:qewt4app] I'll take Martinez for $50 at those odds. Also you should define "5th starter", is it just the fifth person to start a game for the Mets? What if that person clearly doesnt have the 5th starter role thanks to speing training injury? you could easily see the first week or so go Santana-Pelfrey-Perez-Redding-Santana-Pelfrey-Perez-Redding-Maine if Maine is unable to take his first turn for some reason. smg58 Feb 12 2009 06:55 PM The acquisition of Freddy Garcia makes us the team to beat. A hundred fake dollars says so. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 12 2009 08:04 PM 11000 CPF Bolivars-- or 5 CPF Washingtons-- on Venezuela's next finest, the Chief. (I'd set the Redding odds a little lower... he feels a little more like a 2:1 to me.) MFS62 Feb 13 2009 06:17 AM While we're at it, let's not forget Competition II - lefty reliever. The Mets have invited every aging lefty this side of Che Guevarra to camp this year in hope of finding someone to share lefty bullpen duties with Feliciano. Unless they sign one of the still-free agents, the battle could go down to the wire. And I haven't the foggiest what the odds are on each of the current candidates. Should there be separate competition threads for each contested position? Later metirish Feb 13 2009 06:42 AM Freddie Garcia is the new slight favorite....several bookie associates have been calling me with news that a chap that looks a lot like Jeff Wilpon was seen in several parlors yesterday laying out "big" money on Garcia at 50/1 odds....no doubt trying to diversify his portfolio . Adam Rubin in the Snooze today has Garcia as the favorite , Mets "insiders" are talking about the team strongest with Freddie as the fifth starter and redding the long man....Neise looks like he will start in AAA Line Redding - 5/1 Niese - 10/1 Armas - 20/1 Figueroa - 10/1 Garcia - 3/1 Parnell - 50/1 Bostick - 70/1 Stoner - 100/1 Gee - 200/1 Antonioni - 200/1 Benjamin Grimm Feb 13 2009 06:46 AM It really depends on how healthy he is. I'd have to think that if Freddy is ready he'll get the job. Frayed Knot Feb 13 2009 06:51 AM Yeah, but I got my Garcia money down under the old odds. Big Payoff Baby!! Edgy DC Feb 13 2009 07:09 AM ="MFS62":3dpj9ik0]While we're at it, let's not forget Competition II - lefty reliever.[/quote:3dpj9ik0] Nobody forgot anything. Thanks. Rockin' Doc Feb 13 2009 10:47 AM I think Garcia is the favorite, assuming he is healthy. Redding is likely the back up plan should Garcia not be ready for the start of the season. I guess I'm under the new odds, so I'll put 25 CPF bucks on Garcia at 3/1 and 50 CPF bucks on Redding at 5/1. metirish Feb 13 2009 10:54 AM Yes you have Garcia at the shortened odds....FK , Gwreck , Smg and Ben have Gracia at 50/1 odds....I might need to do a runner if that horse comes home first... metirish Feb 14 2009 10:51 AM Livan Hernandez can be had at 50/1 today.... Edgy DC Feb 21 2009 09:20 PM Redding is behind in rehabbing from offseason surgery, and Armas has had visa problems keeping him out of camp for a second straight year. It looks like Hrnandez vs. Garcia right now as co-favorites. Vic Sage Feb 23 2009 10:20 AM something keeps whispering "Livan" in my good ear. put me down for 100 DisneyBucks. metirish Mar 03 2009 12:28 PM Line Per JCL report odds on Garcia getting longer. Livan Hernandez - 4/1 Redding - 5/1 Niese - 10/1 Armas - 20/1 Figueroa - 10/1 Garcia - 3/1 - NEW 10/1 Parnell - 50/1 Bostick - 70/1 Stoner - 100/1 Gee - 200/1 Antonioni - 200/1 Brad Holt - 200/1 Reports today in the media talk highly of Holt. Edgy DC Mar 03 2009 02:37 PM With Gee posting a seven-run inning (five unearned, but the big error was his), he may drop to 300-1. metirish Mar 03 2009 02:39 PM A relation to Wide Bee Gee? Gee - 300/1 Edgy DC Mar 11 2009 12:55 PM Hernandez $150. Adam has me convinced. MFS62 Mar 11 2009 01:35 PM As most of the others slowly (and in some cases rapidly) eliminate themselves, Figueroa is starting to make his move toward the final turn. I'm still not convinced yet, but this one won't be settled until the home stretch. You can't count the homey out just yet. Later LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 11 2009 02:23 PM Dammit, Chief... this fifth? He shall be a Livan, and he shall be a fat man. Swing my 5 Seavers and a few dozen Leiters over to Chubs. [i think Figs needs to pack some extra wing-sauce-wiping napkins, no matter how solid he's looking-- there's simply no room on the roster with Redding, Stokes et. al.] metirish Mar 13 2009 07:21 AM Odds on Tim Redding are now 500/1 - he seems destined for long relief , damn lucky he has all that guaranteed money I say. bmfc1 Mar 14 2009 08:43 AM Just got a tweet from the Post's Mets guy: Redding has been shut down PORT ST. LUCIE -- The Mets have shut down fifth-starter candidate Tim Redding for what could be a significant amount of time due to what GM Omar Minaya described this morning as weakness in Redding's right shoulder. John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 14 2009 08:56 AM So they DL him and work him in slowly. I think Livan is looking very likely right now. Edgy DC Mar 14 2009 11:25 AM Huge gap opening for two of your favorites --- Parnell and o'Day, with bobby as the spot starter. attgig Mar 14 2009 03:43 PM the new question is, how long before pedro gets signed? he's still denying, but... http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2009/news/story?id=3979989 ] Minaya wouldn't rule out bringing in a new pitcher, but said that at this time the Mets plan to look within camp for someone to fill Redding's role. Former Mets pitcher Pedro Martinez remains a free agent, but Minaya said there are no negotiations with him at this point. He wouldn't comment on whether there had been any contact. "I never rule out options looking outside, but I feel comfortable in the guys we have," Minaya said. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 14 2009 05:19 PM Oh, waiter? Give me a Niese/Livan cocktail, with a twist of Parnell. You can the Mangoo to the side, please... I may try a little of that later, if there's any left. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 24 2009 01:31 PM And your winner, by sixth-round decision... http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/03/24/hello-livan-goodbye-freddy/ John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 24 2009 01:35 PM Well the important news is that Garcia intends to stay. History shows we'll need 8 or 10 starters over the course of the year and the more options the better. I still believe if Freddy is capable of regaining his strength he's every bit the pitcher Livan is and that's, you know, something to be.

He pled guilty to a misdemeanor, he could technically receive up to a year in jail but is expected (per the federal sentencing guidelines) to receive probation. the conviction could technically affect his immigration status but is not expected to according to his lawyer. (from ESPN)

i didnt like espn the one year i did it. would someone post here when yahoo opens up this year? i dont plan on having any other leagues on yahoo this year (well, maybe last minute public leagues) so i'm not really checking it

I always thought "Ilya" was a guy's name, at least the one Ilya I know is, unless I'm spelling his name wrong? ]There doesn't seem to be an allegation that Alomar knew (or even that he necessarily should have known) that he had AIDS at the time they were having unprotected sex, so there is no criminal liability (or moral culpability); #29-34 on the first cause of action seems to allege just that, even if it isn't true it is certainly being alleged.

]Even after I clarified? No, but by then I had already commented

Met Management's official position should be that they're fine at 2nd and everywhere else, but that shouldnt stop the fans from saying otherwise. Your post seemed like a serious (and in my opinion, unwarranted) jab at Wilpon's payroll

="soupcan":1r1auihp]="Nymr83":1r1auihp]="metsguyinmichigan":1r1auihp]Always lots of rumors that Alomar was gay. Supposedly he spit at the umpire because he made a homophobic slur.[/quote:1r1auihp] which has what to do with anything here?[/quote:1r1auihp] AIDS. Gay. There's relevance.[/quote:1r1auihp] You can catch AIDS by having normal heterosexual sex. You can also be raped by men even if you yourself are not gay, I still fail to see the relevance. metsguyinmichigan Feb 11 2009 08:44 AM ="soupcan":1hl6exl4]="Nymr83":1hl6exl4]="metsguyinmichigan":1hl6exl4]Always lots of rumors that Alomar was gay. Supposedly he spit at the umpire because he made a homophobic slur.[/quote:1hl6exl4] which has what to do with anything here?[/quote:1hl6exl4] AIDS. Gay. There's relevance.[/quote:1hl6exl4] Well, the point was that if he was saying he got the disease because he was raped by two men in Mexico, that might not be entirely true. But certainly there are multiple ways to get AIDS, and I wasn't casting any dispersions on him because he might be gay. Just saying the rape thing seemed odd, as did the refusals to be tested over the years. soupcan Feb 11 2009 09:00 AM Of course you can 'catch' AIDS in ways that have nothing to do with homosexual sex. The fact remains however that it originated as a disease specific to the homosexual community and rightly or wrongly, still remains something that many people consider a 'gay desease'. The rumor that Alomar is gay combined with the rumor that he has AIDS makes the statement valid. Fman99 Feb 11 2009 09:13 AM ="soupcan"]="Benjamin Grimm"]That kind of rings a bell with me. (The gay Alomar rumors.) There was some article making the rounds written by a gay writer who said he had an affair with a 'prominent baseball player with an east coast team'. At the time I think that many people assumed he was talking about Piazza but there were also whispers that it could have been Malomar. We used to joke here that Mary Pierce was a bad choice for a beard for Robbie because she looked more like a man than he did.. Wow I can't believe Robby Alomar had sex with Geddy Lee. Benjamin Grimm Feb 11 2009 09:17 AM You know, millionaire professional athletes have trouble getting the prettiest of women, and often have to settle for those who look like Willie Nelson. Edgy DC Feb 11 2009 09:26 AM Cruel room. Vic Sage Feb 11 2009 10:00 AM my observations: 1) saying someone has AIDS could be actionable, unless it were true, so it is unlikely the woman would make this accusation without some good faith basis to believe it to be true; 2) The gay rumors (which i recall) and his sudden and precipitous drop in performance add further credibility to the claim and therefore are relevent issues to raise without pretending otherwise, or implying veiled innuendo of homophobia for having done so, 3) There doesn't seem to be an allegation that Alomar knew (or even that he necessarily should have known) that he had AIDS at the time they were having unprotected sex, so there is no criminal liability (or moral culpability); 4) this is tragic all the way around; and 5) Namor's perspective does not surprise me in the least. John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 11 2009 10:01 AM View the suit: [url:xutp2sq2]http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0211091alomar1.html[/url:xutp2sq2] metirish Feb 11 2009 10:08 AM 12 pages..... Not sure if it was last season or the one before that Alomar was shown in the stands at Shea watching a game , looked pretty good then , may have been Father's Day IIRC. Nymr83 Feb 11 2009 10:16 AM I always thought "Ilya" was a guy's name, at least the one Ilya I know is, unless I'm spelling his name wrong? ]There doesn't seem to be an allegation that Alomar knew (or even that he necessarily should have known) that he had AIDS at the time they were having unprotected sex, so there is no criminal liability (or moral culpability); #29-34 on the first cause of action seems to allege just that, even if it isn't true it is certainly being alleged. HahnSolo Feb 11 2009 10:24 AM ="metirish":z7miuiq4]12 pages..... Not sure if it was last season or the one before that Alomar was shown in the stands at Shea watching a game , looked pretty good then , may have been Father's Day IIRC.[/quote:z7miuiq4] I believe so. I think he, his dad and brother took the Shea countdown number down on Fathers Day. I didn't see him that day. Vic Sage Feb 11 2009 10:51 AM there is no evidence that he knew he was positive until 1/06, and the complaint doesn't allege any. That he SHOULD have known before then, based on his various symptoms, is a matter of conjecture, and not the basis of "criminal" conduct. It might rise to tortious conduct, if her allegations are proven true, and though sections 29-34 of the complaint are worded broadly (as such complaints generally are), they clearly are about what he SHOULD have known. Of course, during all this time HE should have known, shouldn't she have? Why would she continue to have unprotected sex with someone whose symptoms she alleges were so obvious that ignoring or denying them rose to the level of negligence (civil, much less criminal negligence!). Wasn't she contributorily negligent? Oh the other hand, if he actually told her that he'd been tested on the numerous times that she alleges, and always told her he had tested negative, that's fraudulant behavior. Still, in most jurisdictions "emotional distress" needs at least some element of physical damage to be actionable, and certainly so for a criminal prosecution. She doesn't claim any battery, and as long as she tests negative, neither she nor any state may have a claim against him for what he might have or should have known. But certainly, if her allegations are true, there is moral culpability here. Edgy DC Feb 11 2009 11:05 AM Possiblities also exist that (1) he honestly had been tested, and received a false negative, and (2) had honestly been tested, and received an accurate negative, but contracted the disease subsequently. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 11 2009 02:20 PM A suit for distress several years after the supposed diagnosis... and after she continued to cohabitate (and, presumably, perform girlfriend-ly duties) with the guy for 3-plus years after THAT? I'm guessing that he's not a fantastic breaker-upper. metirish Feb 11 2009 06:05 PM My wife tells me that of course this is shocking news in Puerto Rico , anyway Robbie's current squeeze is a TV personality and model and she has been all over TV over there today talking about how all of this is false and that in due course all will be reveled , she did say that the ex told Alomar that when they broke up she was going to ruin him.Current GF also claims that Robbie is in good health. Edgy DC Feb 11 2009 06:16 PM I hope that's true. Good health doesn't necessarily mean virus-free, but it's good to have a woman stand by you when another is airing you out. metirish Feb 11 2009 06:22 PM More news , that picture is recent because they have been dating for only six months , current girl is the object of much scorn and ridicule in Puerto Rico , she is known for being an air head...also known as "dark cloud" as a BF from a few years ago killed himself and a guy she dated last year got cancer.....crazy stuff. Edgy DC Feb 11 2009 06:27 PM La Nube Oscura. Ouch. Frayed Knot Feb 11 2009 07:03 PM Robbie will be part of next year's 1st timers club for HoF consideration. Fman99 Feb 11 2009 07:56 PM ="metirish"]My wife tells me that of course this is shocking news in Puerto Rico , anyway Robbie's current squeeze is a TV personality and model and she has been all over TV over there today talking about how all of this is false and that in due course all will be reveled , she did say that the ex told Alomar that when they broke up she was going to ruin him.Current GF also claims that Robbie is in good health. I'd shake that shack. soupcan Feb 11 2009 08:37 PM I dunno - he don't look so good to me.. Of course I'm looking at him thinking he's got full-blown AIDS and he's trying to hide it but doesn't he look a little gaunt? He looks older than a 41 year-old former professional athlete should and he was always a pretty youthful looking guy. SteveJRogers Feb 11 2009 09:11 PM Shots of him getting inducted into the Blue Jays' Level of Excellence (they don't retire numbers) last spring Edgy DC Feb 11 2009 09:39 PM ="The New York Times":gev7takj]After he joined the mediocre Mets in 2002, Alomar�s play took a sharp turn for the worse.[/quote:gev7takj] Hey, paper of record, easy on the editorializing. That's not a blog you're writing. metirish Feb 19 2009 08:32 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Feb 19 2009 08:44 AM Nothing new in this case , some pictures here of Alomar's GF... Be careful Opening These At Work[/url:2ob5iosb] scroll down John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 19 2009 08:35 AM Looks like she's smuggling a few batting helmets in her top. metirish Feb 26 2009 07:03 PM Update if anyone is interested......Gisselle a famous Puerto Rican Merengue singer and ex squeeze of Alomar's felt compelled to take a HIV test and go public with the results today because of a smear campaign down there in the gossip pages....she tested negative. Also his current GF holds daily news briefs on Robbie and has taken to calling him her husband....my wife tells me this girl is really a hate figure down there and it's worse now because she is seen to be using Alomar for her own publicity. I didn't appreciate how highly thought of the Alomar family are in Puerto Rico and it's a circus there right now. TransMonk May 06 2009 01:00 PM That's settled: http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2009/05/06/2009-05-06_alomar_settles_suit_with_former_gal_pal.html Ex-Met Roberto Alomar settles suit with former gal pal in AIDS lawsuit BY John Marzulli DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER Wednesday, May 6th 2009, 4:00 AM The ex-girlfriend of Roberto Alomar has settled her lawsuit that accused the former Mets' second baseman of being stricken with full-blown AIDS and having unprotected sex with her, according to court records. No terms of the settlement was disclosed. Ilya Dall, 31, had alleged that Alomar had been in declining health for years, but insisted he was disease-free before testing positive for AIDS in February 2006, according to the suit filed in Brooklyn Federal Court. She sought $15 million in damages. The couple had been dating since 2002 and broke up last October. Dall claimed in the suit that Alomar had told her he was suffering from erectile dysfunction and had been "raped by two Mexican men" when he was 17. Asked if she regretted the public disclosure of intimate details of Alomar's health, Dall told the Daily News: "I'm sorry, but I have no comment." Alomar's lawyer would not comment on whether the baseball legend had AIDS. "He's healthy and he looks great," said Charles Bach. "The matter is over. The plaintiff [Dall] has withdrawn her complaint." As part of the settlement, Dall agreed not to file any future lawsuit against Alomar. Dall's suit originally filed in Queens Supreme Court in January, was transferred to federal court at Alomar's request because they live in different states - he in Florida and Dall in Whitestone, Queens. Dall's lawyer, Robert Sullivan, also declined to comment on the settlement. jmarzulli@nydailynews.com metirish May 06 2009 01:06 PM My wife was telling me last night that Robbies current GF who also serves as his spokesperson in PR has been all over TV there boasting that they are getting married and showing off a ring that she says cost $300K . This information was blurted out during a press conference yesterday to announce the settlement. Benjamin Grimm May 06 2009 01:16 PM Of course, this settlement doesn't settle the issue of Alomar's health. It just got the plaintiff to agree to shut up. He's still just as HIV positive, or not, as he was before today. So that issue remains up in the air. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 06 2009 03:18 PM ="metirish"]My wife was telling me last night that Robbies current GF who also serves as his spokesperson in PR has been all over TV there boasting that they are getting married and showing off a ring that she says cost $300K . This information was blurted out during a press conference yesterday to announce the settlement. This GF... is she actually made of plastic, or does she just seem as if she must be?

]But on the basis that a $4M deal is all fantasy and no reality, why doesn't Wilpon simply announce that he's not interested in Abreu? Why should Wilpon (or any other gm/owner) announce his intentions with regard to personnel moves?

="Edgy DC":1zt4k77z]I'm trying to zoom in on the alleged rape. The record shows him playing in the SALlie League at 17 and the California League at 18. The California League, as far as I can tell, sticks to the Golden State and doesn't wind out to New Mexico, or even Arizona, though maybe it did in 1986.[/quote:1zt4k77z] Reno, NV had a team from 1955 to 1992 (or so says wikipedia) soupcan Feb 11 2009 08:19 AM ="Nymr83":328ycyjo]="metsguyinmichigan":328ycyjo]Always lots of rumors that Alomar was gay. Supposedly he spit at the umpire because he made a homophobic slur.[/quote:328ycyjo] which has what to do with anything here?[/quote:328ycyjo] AIDS. Gay. There's relevance. Met Hunter Feb 11 2009 08:19 AM I have to say, I'm surprised by this story, but not shocked. The rumors of Robbie's sexual orientation have been around for years. I always felt that Piazza took some hits for Robbie back in the 'there's a gay Met' days. Hirschbeck did in fact call Alomar a name (faggot) that infuriated Roberto. A couple years ago, I attended an autograph show that both Sandys were at and we saw Roberto in the lobby. He looked like hell and we thought he was dying. We were told that he recently had surgery and was a litle under the weather. Either way, this is a sad story. If he indeed is infected, knew about it, and convinced his girl to have sexual relations with him, that is irresposible and criminal. Despite that, I hope for the best to the entire Alomar clan. A great baseball family. soupcan Feb 11 2009 08:22 AM ="Benjamin Grimm"]That kind of rings a bell with me. (The gay Alomar rumors.) There was some article making the rounds written by a gay writer who said he had an affair with a 'prominent baseball player with an east coast team'. At the time I think that many people assumed he was talking about Piazza but there were also whispers that it could have been Malomar. We used to joke here that Mary Pierce was a bad choice for a beard for Robbie because she looked more like a man than he did.. MFS62 Feb 11 2009 08:25 AM Yiles! No wonder she was fronting for Virgin. Who would want to .... ? Later Edgy DC Feb 11 2009 08:28 AM She gets a tough rap. A funky nose, but she had a wonderful athletic build, even by tennis player standards. Centerfield Feb 11 2009 08:31 AM I have confirmed with four different sources that Mary Pierce is one of the unnamed 103. Nymr83 Feb 11 2009 08:38 AM ="soupcan":1r1auihp]="Nymr83":1r1auihp]="metsguyinmichigan":1r1auihp]Always lots of rumors that Alomar was gay. Supposedly he spit at the umpire because he made a homophobic slur.[/quote:1r1auihp] which has what to do with anything here?[/quote:1r1auihp] AIDS. Gay. There's relevance.[/quote:1r1auihp] You can catch AIDS by having normal heterosexual sex. You can also be raped by men even if you yourself are not gay, I still fail to see the relevance. metsguyinmichigan Feb 11 2009 08:44 AM ="soupcan":1hl6exl4]="Nymr83":1hl6exl4]="metsguyinmichigan":1hl6exl4]Always lots of rumors that Alomar was gay. Supposedly he spit at the umpire because he made a homophobic slur.[/quote:1hl6exl4] which has what to do with anything here?[/quote:1hl6exl4] AIDS. Gay. There's relevance.[/quote:1hl6exl4] Well, the point was that if he was saying he got the disease because he was raped by two men in Mexico, that might not be entirely true. But certainly there are multiple ways to get AIDS, and I wasn't casting any dispersions on him because he might be gay. Just saying the rape thing seemed odd, as did the refusals to be tested over the years. soupcan Feb 11 2009 09:00 AM Of course you can 'catch' AIDS in ways that have nothing to do with homosexual sex. The fact remains however that it originated as a disease specific to the homosexual community and rightly or wrongly, still remains something that many people consider a 'gay desease'. The rumor that Alomar is gay combined with the rumor that he has AIDS makes the statement valid. Fman99 Feb 11 2009 09:13 AM ="soupcan"]="Benjamin Grimm"]That kind of rings a bell with me. (The gay Alomar rumors.) There was some article making the rounds written by a gay writer who said he had an affair with a 'prominent baseball player with an east coast team'. At the time I think that many people assumed he was talking about Piazza but there were also whispers that it could have been Malomar. We used to joke here that Mary Pierce was a bad choice for a beard for Robbie because she looked more like a man than he did.. Wow I can't believe Robby Alomar had sex with Geddy Lee. Benjamin Grimm Feb 11 2009 09:17 AM You know, millionaire professional athletes have trouble getting the prettiest of women, and often have to settle for those who look like Willie Nelson. Edgy DC Feb 11 2009 09:26 AM Cruel room. Vic Sage Feb 11 2009 10:00 AM my observations: 1) saying someone has AIDS could be actionable, unless it were true, so it is unlikely the woman would make this accusation without some good faith basis to believe it to be true; 2) The gay rumors (which i recall) and his sudden and precipitous drop in performance add further credibility to the claim and therefore are relevent issues to raise without pretending otherwise, or implying veiled innuendo of homophobia for having done so, 3) There doesn't seem to be an allegation that Alomar knew (or even that he necessarily should have known) that he had AIDS at the time they were having unprotected sex, so there is no criminal liability (or moral culpability); 4) this is tragic all the way around; and 5) Namor's perspective does not surprise me in the least. John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 11 2009 10:01 AM View the suit: [url:xutp2sq2]http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0211091alomar1.html[/url:xutp2sq2] metirish Feb 11 2009 10:08 AM 12 pages..... Not sure if it was last season or the one before that Alomar was shown in the stands at Shea watching a game , looked pretty good then , may have been Father's Day IIRC. Nymr83 Feb 11 2009 10:16 AM I always thought "Ilya" was a guy's name, at least the one Ilya I know is, unless I'm spelling his name wrong? ]There doesn't seem to be an allegation that Alomar knew (or even that he necessarily should have known) that he had AIDS at the time they were having unprotected sex, so there is no criminal liability (or moral culpability); #29-34 on the first cause of action seems to allege just that, even if it isn't true it is certainly being alleged. HahnSolo Feb 11 2009 10:24 AM ="metirish":z7miuiq4]12 pages..... Not sure if it was last season or the one before that Alomar was shown in the stands at Shea watching a game , looked pretty good then , may have been Father's Day IIRC.[/quote:z7miuiq4] I believe so. I think he, his dad and brother took the Shea countdown number down on Fathers Day. I didn't see him that day. Vic Sage Feb 11 2009 10:51 AM there is no evidence that he knew he was positive until 1/06, and the complaint doesn't allege any. That he SHOULD have known before then, based on his various symptoms, is a matter of conjecture, and not the basis of "criminal" conduct. It might rise to tortious conduct, if her allegations are proven true, and though sections 29-34 of the complaint are worded broadly (as such complaints generally are), they clearly are about what he SHOULD have known. Of course, during all this time HE should have known, shouldn't she have? Why would she continue to have unprotected sex with someone whose symptoms she alleges were so obvious that ignoring or denying them rose to the level of negligence (civil, much less criminal negligence!). Wasn't she contributorily negligent? Oh the other hand, if he actually told her that he'd been tested on the numerous times that she alleges, and always told her he had tested negative, that's fraudulant behavior. Still, in most jurisdictions "emotional distress" needs at least some element of physical damage to be actionable, and certainly so for a criminal prosecution. She doesn't claim any battery, and as long as she tests negative, neither she nor any state may have a claim against him for what he might have or should have known. But certainly, if her allegations are true, there is moral culpability here. Edgy DC Feb 11 2009 11:05 AM Possiblities also exist that (1) he honestly had been tested, and received a false negative, and (2) had honestly been tested, and received an accurate negative, but contracted the disease subsequently. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 11 2009 02:20 PM A suit for distress several years after the supposed diagnosis... and after she continued to cohabitate (and, presumably, perform girlfriend-ly duties) with the guy for 3-plus years after THAT? I'm guessing that he's not a fantastic breaker-upper. metirish Feb 11 2009 06:05 PM My wife tells me that of course this is shocking news in Puerto Rico , anyway Robbie's current squeeze is a TV personality and model and she has been all over TV over there today talking about how all of this is false and that in due course all will be reveled , she did say that the ex told Alomar that when they broke up she was going to ruin him.Current GF also claims that Robbie is in good health. Edgy DC Feb 11 2009 06:16 PM I hope that's true. Good health doesn't necessarily mean virus-free, but it's good to have a woman stand by you when another is airing you out. metirish Feb 11 2009 06:22 PM More news , that picture is recent because they have been dating for only six months , current girl is the object of much scorn and ridicule in Puerto Rico , she is known for being an air head...also known as "dark cloud" as a BF from a few years ago killed himself and a guy she dated last year got cancer.....crazy stuff. Edgy DC Feb 11 2009 06:27 PM La Nube Oscura. Ouch. Frayed Knot Feb 11 2009 07:03 PM Robbie will be part of next year's 1st timers club for HoF consideration. Fman99 Feb 11 2009 07:56 PM ="metirish"]My wife tells me that of course this is shocking news in Puerto Rico , anyway Robbie's current squeeze is a TV personality and model and she has been all over TV over there today talking about how all of this is false and that in due course all will be reveled , she did say that the ex told Alomar that when they broke up she was going to ruin him.Current GF also claims that Robbie is in good health. I'd shake that shack. soupcan Feb 11 2009 08:37 PM I dunno - he don't look so good to me.. Of course I'm looking at him thinking he's got full-blown AIDS and he's trying to hide it but doesn't he look a little gaunt? He looks older than a 41 year-old former professional athlete should and he was always a pretty youthful looking guy. SteveJRogers Feb 11 2009 09:11 PM Shots of him getting inducted into the Blue Jays' Level of Excellence (they don't retire numbers) last spring Edgy DC Feb 11 2009 09:39 PM ="The New York Times":gev7takj]After he joined the mediocre Mets in 2002, Alomar�s play took a sharp turn for the worse.[/quote:gev7takj] Hey, paper of record, easy on the editorializing. That's not a blog you're writing. metirish Feb 19 2009 08:32 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Feb 19 2009 08:44 AM Nothing new in this case , some pictures here of Alomar's GF... Be careful Opening These At Work[/url:2ob5iosb] scroll down John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 19 2009 08:35 AM Looks like she's smuggling a few batting helmets in her top. metirish Feb 26 2009 07:03 PM Update if anyone is interested......Gisselle a famous Puerto Rican Merengue singer and ex squeeze of Alomar's felt compelled to take a HIV test and go public with the results today because of a smear campaign down there in the gossip pages....she tested negative. Also his current GF holds daily news briefs on Robbie and has taken to calling him her husband....my wife tells me this girl is really a hate figure down there and it's worse now because she is seen to be using Alomar for her own publicity. I didn't appreciate how highly thought of the Alomar family are in Puerto Rico and it's a circus there right now. TransMonk May 06 2009 01:00 PM That's settled: http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2009/05/06/2009-05-06_alomar_settles_suit_with_former_gal_pal.html Ex-Met Roberto Alomar settles suit with former gal pal in AIDS lawsuit BY John Marzulli DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER Wednesday, May 6th 2009, 4:00 AM The ex-girlfriend of Roberto Alomar has settled her lawsuit that accused the former Mets' second baseman of being stricken with full-blown AIDS and having unprotected sex with her, according to court records. No terms of the settlement was disclosed. Ilya Dall, 31, had alleged that Alomar had been in declining health for years, but insisted he was disease-free before testing positive for AIDS in February 2006, according to the suit filed in Brooklyn Federal Court. She sought $15 million in damages. The couple had been dating since 2002 and broke up last October. Dall claimed in the suit that Alomar had told her he was suffering from erectile dysfunction and had been "raped by two Mexican men" when he was 17. Asked if she regretted the public disclosure of intimate details of Alomar's health, Dall told the Daily News: "I'm sorry, but I have no comment." Alomar's lawyer would not comment on whether the baseball legend had AIDS. "He's healthy and he looks great," said Charles Bach. "The matter is over. The plaintiff [Dall] has withdrawn her complaint." As part of the settlement, Dall agreed not to file any future lawsuit against Alomar. Dall's suit originally filed in Queens Supreme Court in January, was transferred to federal court at Alomar's request because they live in different states - he in Florida and Dall in Whitestone, Queens. Dall's lawyer, Robert Sullivan, also declined to comment on the settlement. jmarzulli@nydailynews.com metirish May 06 2009 01:06 PM My wife was telling me last night that Robbies current GF who also serves as his spokesperson in PR has been all over TV there boasting that they are getting married and showing off a ring that she says cost $300K . This information was blurted out during a press conference yesterday to announce the settlement. Benjamin Grimm May 06 2009 01:16 PM Of course, this settlement doesn't settle the issue of Alomar's health. It just got the plaintiff to agree to shut up. He's still just as HIV positive, or not, as he was before today. So that issue remains up in the air. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr May 06 2009 03:18 PM ="metirish"]My wife was telling me last night that Robbies current GF who also serves as his spokesperson in PR has been all over TV there boasting that they are getting married and showing off a ring that she says cost $300K . This information was blurted out during a press conference yesterday to announce the settlement. This GF... is she actually made of plastic, or does she just seem as if she must be?

I don't love Abreu but he's fine, yeah he's getting fat, yeah he's getting old, but with the $$$ the Mets have i don't think you can ever really go wrong with a 1-year deal. getting stuck with Castillo for 4 years sucks, getting a repeat of Alou '08 with Abreu '09 would be a worst case scenario and not too big a problem going forward. also, i'd bat him 2nd with that OBP, Wright 3rd, Beltran 4th, Church/Delgado 5th/6th depending on which Delgado shows up. he's not at all ideal because the Mets could use a Righty not a lefty, but you'd face the same problem with Dunn, Griffey, or pretty much every other outfield bat that is still available except for Manny Ramirez

]Freddie Coupon's back. Must be a real shitty coupon to still have one of the top payrolls in the sport, does he get $1 off every million spent?