Keith Hernandez is Keith Hernandez and we're not.

[Guest 41Forever]

A Boy Named Seo wrote: what a great photo. I mean I know he'd be worse than Adrian Gonzalez, but, like, how much? And we all know he's better than Jay Bruce, cause everyone is. [tweet]https://twitter.com/keithhernandez/status/986634731600207877[/tweet]

I miss Old-Timers Day!

[Guest d'Kong76]

[fimg=650:2ubtdkho]http://www.kcmets.com/CPF/keithbird.png[/fimg:2ubtdkho]

[Guest d'Kong76]

Keith and His Kitty got a big write-up in today's New York Times.

[bmfc1]

Last Sunday:
Gary: "If you're just tuning in, Yoenis Cespedes left the game with a sore hip"
Keith (a second later): "If you're just tuning in Cespedes left the game with a sore hip"
Gary: "Well somebody just tuned in".

[Edgy MD]

Gary busting Keith's chops for wavering levels of engagement is great theater.

[Guest cooby]

A Boy Named Seo wrote: I'm just here to say that Keith Hernandez is making Twitter "a thing to look at" for me. [tweet]https://twitter.com/keithhernandez/status/986625944520708096[/tweet] [tweet]https://twitter.com/keithhernandez/status/986631219055071237[/tweet]

Okay I did something I never thought I would do...I just signed up for a Twitter account, but for the sole purpose of following Keith and hadji.
Keith is tweeting away right now but I’m getting no notifications. Am I doing something wrong?

Also is there some sort of ‘home page’ where you can see everyone you’re following?

[Guest d'Kong76]

I have two twitter accounts, one I just made in case I need it one day.
I just looked at @kcmets account and my last post is...
[tweet:3u54v6z9]https://twitter.com/kcmets/status/779125498408529920[/tweet:3u54v6z9]
...and now I'm posting lineups here from twitter all the time.

[Guest cooby]

Well eventually I might follow the Mets but wow that looks busy! I guess my main concern is not getting uh ‘tweet’ notifications? Also following CPF and CPF new topic

[batmagadanleadoff]

Keith Hernandez on his Cardinals career, the modern game and a Mets trade that never was

As someone who has co-authored a recent baseball memoir, I can tell you that for a book of this kind to resonate with the audience, the author needs to accomplish four things: — Provide enough pre-fame moments for the reader to identify with the subject; — Provide enough nostalgia so the reader enjoys the ride; — Drop in a “Holy Cow” moment once every few chapters; — Admit to on-the-field faults, mistakes, errors in their life. Bonus points for owning up to off-the-field issues. Does “I’m Keith Hernandez” meet these criteria? It sure does. The former All-Star first baseman, who starred on World Series-winning teams for both the Cardinals and Mets, paints a portrait of a 1960s kid under the extreme direction of what may be the first sports helicopter parent on record. Hernandez endured much pain, strife and pressure from his father, a former minor league player, who shared the outfield with Stan Musial on a Navy team during World War II. Many of us have dealt with parents who pushed us to succeed, sometimes to exhaustion. Turned out that John Hernandez’s assessments of his son’s ability were well-founded. The ballplayer went through many growing pains in his early life, issues with unfair coaches, experimentations of youth, dalliances with women along the way, scared-straight moments occurring in strange towns on the road, all fueled by a strong affection for Rock & Roll. It’s an easily relatable story. Hernandez chooses to focus on his upbringing, his minor league seasons and his initial years with the Cardinals. There’s no talk about his reluctance to come to the Mets in 1983, hardly much mention of his time in a Mets uniform at all for that matter, no mention of the drug trials which interrupted his 1985 season for a short time. What does exist is a behind-the-scenes look at Hernandez’s day-to-day in the Mets’ broadcast booth as a starting point to express his current views on the game. Cardinals fans seeking nostalgia will also find a lot here, with ample stories and anecdotes on players like Bob Gibson, Reggie Smith, Ted Simmons and manager Ken Boyer, whose influence on Hernandez’s career cannot be measured. Hernandez talked with Sporting News about the book, his Cardinals career, and thoughts regarding baseball today, both on the major league diamond as well as 2018’s version of the “prep” game. Sporting News: I did a little research while reading the book and found some fascinating nuggets. The Oct. 14, 1974, St. Louis Post-Dispatch story on the Joe Torre trade had a great opening line: “Okay, Keith Hernandez. First base is yours.” Did you have a sense that Torre, who won the NL Most Valuable Player award as well as the batting title for the Cards three years earlier, was going to be traded during the 1974 off-season? Keith Hernandez: I was pretty certain that he would be, yes. I hit .351 that year at AAA Tulsa. They called me up and gave me a long look in September. SN: Would you say going into 1975 spring training that the first base position was yours to lose? KH: Even after the Torre trade I didn’t feel it was mine to lose so much as it was mine to hold onto. I really wasn’t ready emotionally at 20, I was still a little kid, you know, over-awed by playing in the big leagues, facing guys like (Tom) Seaver. SN: Was that because of Ron Fairly’s presence? The former bonus baby’s final statistics for ’75 came out very similar to the type of numbers you would normally produce during your career (.301 batting average/.421 on-base percentage.) When the Cardinals acquired Fairly from the Expos in December of 1974, did you think he was going to eat into your playing time? KH: I felt that, yeah, they got him as an insurance policy, but also a veteran bat off the bench. But at that age, I didn’t have the brain to consider how St. Louis was molding the club. I learned a lot from Ron. He showed me how to break in my first basemen’s mitt, even better than I knew how to break in a glove. He also taught me how to cheat around first base on defense. But at the same time, he was a no-nonsense guy, kind of a Marine, a rough and gruff guy. Look, he wanted the job too, and I sensed his hunger to still want to play regularly — and why not? So when I started struggling, I felt his presence. It didn’t help, but that’s the name of the game — the game’s full of competition. SN: Let’s skip a few years forward and talk about one of the great managers you ever played for, Whitey Herzog. Do you think his experience managing a “turf team” played into the decision to hire him in St. Louis? Was it proximity to the Royals, the other Missouri-based ballclub? KH: Whitey had success in Kansas City and when you read Whitey’s book, he says it quite blatantly. He wanted full power. And to do that, he had to befriend and become close with Auggie Busch. Whitey didn’t want a general manager over his head — he just took over. He was general manager and the manager. I could just imagine Whitey with Auggie Busch, cigars, whiskey, playing poker and tossing the bull around. Whitey brought great years to St. Louis. He was a great manager, best I ever played for. SN: Did you have any expectations as to what he his managerial style would be like? KH: No. I never followed the American League at all back then. Whitey set the tone when he joined the team (in the middle of the 1980 season); things were in flux at the time. He managed for like three weeks and then had Red Schoendienst handle the team in the dugout for the last 35-40 games. He went into the front office for the rest of 1980 to observe from above and make his evaluations of the ballclub. When it came to first base, Whitey had to make one choice: Leon Durham was coming up, and he was wildly talented, or keep me. I was gonna be 27, just about to enter my prime. I had a big contract at the time, and Whitey chose to stay with me and I think it was the right choice. Wound up trading Bull Durham to Chicago and getting Bruce Sutter. Here’s where the conversation got interesting. One of the most prominent moments in Cardinals history was the 1980 offseason, when Herzog traded away nearly 40 percent of the big-league roster (nine players total, including six starters and Rollie Fingers, who was a Cardinal for less than a week.) Rumors were published every day. One article, buried deep in the Daily News archives, was revealing. SN: Did you know that Whitey offered you to the Mets and asked for Tim Leary, Doug Flynn and Neil Allen? KH: I didn’t know that. Who did he ask for? History and sabermetrics haven’t been kind to Flynn, the Mets’ 1980 starting second baseman and only the most diehard Mets fans of the day remember what great hopes the franchise held for Leary. Neil Allen was a valuable trade chip but not crucial to the team’s success, with rookie Jeff Reardon who could’ve easily slid into the fireman role in the Mets’ bullpen (Reardon would go on to pitch 16 seasons and is currently 10th on the all-time saves list.) SN: Neil Allen, Tim Leary, and Doug Flynn. KH: He offered to trade me in 1980? Wow. If he wanted that deal, Whitey was out of his mind. Interesting. What makes this a truly compelling “what-If” scenario is that three days after the Winter Meetings ended, the Mets signed Rusty Staub to play first base. The ironic aspect is that, considering Hernandez’s well-known friendship with Staub, had the trade been completed, “Le Grand Orange” probably does not return to Flushing and his former team. At least, not for the 1981 season. SN: Not only that, but according to an AP article from a week earlier, Herzog had this to say about the state of the Cardinals in December 1980 in relation to his trading plans. KH: Oh my God. Are you serious? Do you think he was BSing? Most baseball fans can understand this reaction — not to mention Cardinals fans of the past 38 years. The following season, Herzog traded Templeton to the Padres in exchange for Ozzie Smith, who would become a beloved Hall of Fame player in St. Louis. KH: Garry was a great player, but Whitey liked to toss the BS around sometimes. I can’t imagine when he was getting Sutter and Rollie Fingers that he was pursuing Neil Allen, too. SN: He must have been mightily impressed, as Herzog pursued Allen in 1980, 1982 and then finally sending you to the Mets in June 1983 for the reliever and pitching prospect Rick Ownbey. KH: Neil Allen had good stuff and some good years, but … wow. SN: Here’s another question: The 1982 Cardinals led the National League in on-base percentage and stolen bases, were fifth in runs scored and last in home runs. Only Porter and Hendrick hit more than 10 dingers. Can you even build that team today? KH: The teams don’t want to. I’d like to go up against them. The artificial turf aspect is irrelevant. Today’s grass is just like turf. We’d run circles around them. They don’t know how to hold runners on anymore. It’s not their fault. SN: Funny you bring up holding runners on. I remember you often positioned yourself in front of the runner at first. I recall John Olerud playing the same way. I don’t understand why infield coaches in 2018 don’t emulate the fielding strategies of arguably two of the top three statistically finest first basemen who ever played the game. KH: I only did that with slow runners. I never did it with someone like Vince Coleman, guys like that. Only slow runners that I knew weren’t gonna steal. It gets tiring coming on and off the bag and covering the hole. It was taking away a step. SN: Do you see players doing this much in today’s game? KH: Ken Boyer always told me that you’re gonna get hurt more in the hole than down the line, so get out and cover as much as you can. Take away the hole. That requires extra effort, and I see a lot of first basemen today — and I keep my mouth shut — but they don’t even move and it’s just lazy. SN: You talk a lot about your father’s efforts to relentlessly push you in sports after witnessing your native ability at age 11. You must have some thoughts on the travel baseball craze happening in this country right now. You reference how teams are fed all this data about high pitch counts ruining arms. I’ve always thought it was the year-round throwing of high school pitchers in their teens at max effort that’s the problem. KH: I don’t believe in playing just one sport. I believe it results in burnout and each sport trains your body in a different way. I played football in the fall when I was in high school. Then basketball, a different conditioning — you’re running up and down the courts. Then you come into baseball, you’re doing a sprint to hit a triple. We had enough kids to have town leagues back then — the baby boomers — it was very competitive. I think now with these travel leagues, it’s greed. People are making money and they’ve got their little niche in there now. The great thing about Little League was that anyone could play it. With travel, it literally costs a fortune, the parents are paying for it, and for kids and families without those resources, they’re getting shafted. I don’t like it, I don’t like it one bit. SN: According to my own research, wild pitches are at an all-time high and have been for the past three years. What do you think is the explanation there? KH: I only have a theory, but I talk to scouts and they have these “combines” like the NFL and all they’re looking for is the kid who can hit the ball the farthest and the kid who could throw the ball the hardest. There are no pitchers anymore, just throwers. I see so many 0-2 counts turn into 3-2 counts and it just drives me crazy — they don’t know how to put a hitter away and they miss badly. Whitey will confirm this, we had a long conversation over the winter about the amount of pitches. It’s outrageous, but with all the 3-2 counts, the way the game is today, you’re not going to be able to go seven innings. There’s not the guy out there today who’s not a hard thrower who knows how to pitch. It’s all raw power now. It just is what it is. SN: I loved how in the book you discussed the Ron Darling/Davey Johnson AAA story about how he left Ronny out there to “take care of his own mess.” I specifically remember Tim McCarver referencing this during a game in Philly in 1984 where Ron stayed out there and took a beating — gave up six runs in five innings. Do you see managers allowing their starters to “learn through pain” anymore? KH: No, they’re babied and it’s wrong. I absolutely despise when the pitcher gets to his prescribed pitch count, and not someone coming off injury, but someone over the course of another start. Whatever the limit is, even if he’s throwing well, he’ll have runners on base with two outs and they’ll pull him. Let him get out of the inning. Then they’ll say, “We want him to feel good about himself.” He’ll feel better about himself if he gets out of the jam. Drives me nuts. It’s such a paradox. “I wasn’t gonna give into the hitter 2-0,” so he throws a breaking ball or a secondary pitch. In our day, that was giving into a hitter. When he fell behind 2-0, he threw the fastball, he went after him. It’s completely upside down, a whole new philosophy. SN: Let’s end on this note. You retired from the game in 1990 and basically took a complete break from baseball for many years. Once you returned in 2002-2003 and entered the broadcast booth, what had changed in your mind from when you walked away? KH: Coming back to the game, it was the height of the steroid era. The difference was that Tony La Russa and Bobby Cox brought in the one-inning pitchers era. I didn’t like that, and because they were successful, which says something, people started doing the same thing and all of a sudden the middle reliever was becoming lost. It’s starting to come back a bit. The Mets have two guys that can pitch three or four innings. Over the course of a season you’re gonna need that. But I miss the complete game. I don’t think pitchers should throw 300 innings anymore, but from 200 to 250 should be fine. But those days are gone. It’s all about protecting the investments. It’s a different game.

http://www.sportingnews.com/mlb/news/keith-hernandez-book-stats-cardinals-mets-trade-broadcast-interview/ktn2tv1tar4k1swk28fzlccsd

[Guest cooby]

Terrific article

Thanks batmags!

[Edgy MD]

Keith's positions on women in the game are ... complex.

[A Boy Named Seo]

Anybody else read or is reading Keith's book? It's exactly Keith, for the record. I've appreciated the candor about drug use and prostitutes, things that could be embarrassing or even damaging to him. But the part about the trainer in San Diego seemed kinda bullshitty. He tied his feelings to women in baseball back to when female journos were allowed in the clubhouses he played in the 70s which he said made him uncomfortable (OK, fine). But then told a story how he dealt with feeling uncomfortable by dropping all his clothes and streaking through the clubhouse naked in front of the female reporters. That'll show them! Keith seems like a guy I wouldn't take to IRL, but I still love him for some reason. 3/4's of the way through the book. If you enjoy Keith even when you know maybe you shouldn't, read the book. If you don't, don't.

[seawolf17]

A Boy Named Seo wrote: Keith seems like a guy I wouldn't take to IRL, but I still love him for some reason.

This. He *unquestionably* fails the "would I hang out with this person?" test. And yet...

[Benjamin Grimm]

That article says the book only covers the St. Louis portion of his playing career? Is this true? If so, it makes the book considerably less interesting to me.

[A Boy Named Seo]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: That article says the book only covers the St. Louis portion of his playing career? Is this true? If so, it makes the book considerably less interesting to me.

Maybe. At the 3/4 mark, he's still a young Cardinal trying to get established. I still enjoy it, but I get what you mean. The chapters go back and forth from young Keith (growing up, minors, early MLB days) to present-day Keith (working at Citi, playing with his cat). The present-day Keith is plenty Met-centric.

[Edgy MD]

Maybe he got a two-book deal, and his saving the bulk of his Mets life for the sequel.

[seawolf17]

He also already wrote "If At First," so maybe he felt he didn't need to cover that again.

[A Boy Named Seo]

seawolf17 wrote: He also already wrote "If At First," so maybe he felt he didn't need to cover that again.

Was If at First the one where he broke down 2 baseball games? how many damn books does Keith have?

[seawolf17]

A Boy Named Seo wrote: seawolf17 wrote: He also already wrote "If At First," so maybe he felt he didn't need to cover that again. Was If at First the one where he broke down 2 baseball games? how many damn books does Keith have?

No, that was "Pure Baseball," which is also excellent.

He's got those three addressed here, plus his children's book. That's it, I think.

[A Boy Named Seo]

I don't know if you were joking about the childrens book. I hope not. I mean I hope so?

[seawolf17]

https://www.amazon.com/First-Base-Hero-Pop-Up-Golden-Books/dp/0307106268

[Guest d'Kong76]

I won a signed copy of that at a charity raffle years ago.

I sold it on eBay lol.

[A Boy Named Seo]

https://www.amazon.com/First-Base-Hero-Pop-Up-Golden-Books/dp/0307106268

1.5 star rating on Amazon!

"Do I hold the bat like this, Mr. Keith?"

"If you want people to think you hit like a girl, that you're some Punch and Judy, then sure, go right ahead."

"Oh. Then maybe can you show me how to catch the ball instead, Mr. Keith? Is this where I should stand?"

"It doesn't matter where you stand. They'll move you anyway because nowadays everybody loves to over-shift. In the 80s, we positioned ourselves based on how our pitcher would pitch to the hitter, and where that hitter would hit it in response. No StatCast. No algorithms. On the balls of your feet, then pick it, Wilson!"

"Mr. Keith, remember I'm Timmy? Not Wilson."

"Take John Candelaria. Toughest sonofabitch I ever faced. Would turn his back to you and would laredo this frontdoor slider towards home plate. Felt like the ball was coming from behind you! So you'd need to let the pitch get deep and go the other way. Forget launch angles and stop stepping in the bucket trying to pull everything for cryin' out loud. You think the great Stan Musial worried about exit velocity?"

"Baseball has a bucket? Say, Mr. Keith, can I try to pitch?"

"Sure, throw it to me then. But don't aim it, throw it. Good fundies are key. You don't want to pull an oblique, whatever that is."





"Jeez, you're gonna get your tits lit lobbing it in like that. Hadji throws harder."


"Timmy! It's time for dinner!"

"WOW, is that your mom?!?"

The End.

[Benjamin Grimm]

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

that's great lollool

[Edgy MD]

Bring on the dancing bears. That's got to go in the lobby at CPF headquarters.

Actually, fuck, that should be guest-read tonight at Two Boots.

[Guest cooby]

A Boy Named Seo wrote: Anybody else read or is reading Keith's book? It's exactly Keith, for the record. I've appreciated the candor about drug use and prostitutes, things that could be embarrassing or even damaging to him. But the part about the trainer in San Diego seemed kinda bullshitty. He tied his feelings to women in baseball back to when female journos were allowed in the clubhouses he played in the 70s which he said made him uncomfortable (OK, fine). But then told a story how he dealt with feeling uncomfortable by dropping all his clothes and streaking through the clubhouse naked in front of the female reporters. That'll show them! Keith seems like a guy I wouldn't take to IRL, but I still love him for some reason. 3/4's of the way through the book. If you enjoy Keith even when you know maybe you shouldn't, read the book. If you don't, don't.

I am currently also reading it. Yes it’s only about his early years but I am feasting on it because I remember every single player he talks about. Including what they looked like. Including opposing teams. Geez I miss that

There are times he starts discussing hitting and I zone out but if you’re a Mets fan you will love this book if only because it is written by a totally honest Keith (and whatever other kind of keith is there? lol)

[seawolf17]

Interestingly, Book Revue called me tonight and said they *do*, in fact, have an autographed copy waiting for me. Good thing I didn't buy it yet.

Also, holy crap, ABNS. That's hilarious.

[Fman99]

https://www.amazon.com/First-Base-Hero-Pop-Up-Golden-Books/dp/0307106268 1.5 star rating on Amazon! "Do I hold the bat like this, Mr. Keith?" "If you want people to think you hit like a girl, that you're some Punch and Judy, then sure, go right ahead." "Oh. Then maybe can you show me how to catch the ball instead, Mr. Keith? Is this where I should stand?" "It doesn't matter where you stand. They'll move you anyway because nowadays everybody loves to over-shift. In the 80s, we positioned ourselves based on how our pitcher would pitch to the hitter, and where that hitter would hit it in response. No StatCast. No algorithms. On the balls of your feet, then pick it, Wilson!" "Mr. Keith, remember I'm Timmy? Not Wilson." "Take John Candelaria. Toughest sonofabitch I ever faced. Would turn his back to you and would laredo this frontdoor slider towards home plate. Felt like the ball was coming from behind you! So you'd need to let the pitch get deep and go the other way. Forget launch angles and stop stepping in the bucket trying to pull everything for cryin' out loud. You think the great Stan Musial worried about exit velocity?" "Baseball has a bucket? Say, Mr. Keith, can I try to pitch?" "Sure, throw it to me then. But don't aim it, throw it. Good fundies are key. You don't want to pull an oblique, whatever that is." "Jeez, you're gonna get your tits lit lobbing it in like that. Hadji throws harder." "Timmy! It's time for dinner!" "WOW, is that your mom?!?" The End.

Brilliant. And, not to take away from this, anyone who's spent years listening to GKR do games should be able to channel this kind of energy and use it as it's used here, for the greater good.

[bmfc1]

I read "I'm Keith Hernandez". I enjoyed the first half, which switched between his growing up, his days in the minor leagues and his time on Long Island. The second half, which talks about the Cardinals, his father not letting go, and his opinions about today's game, is not as good. It ends with 1980 and a reference to cocaine so I would be interested in a sequel.