The Willets Point Mall Is Dead

[Benjamin Grimm]

After eight years, two lawsuits, countless delays, & three city reversals, the plan for a mall at Willets Point has finally been defeated. And much like the Mets these days, it lost badly. In a 5-1 decision, the Appeals Court upheld a lower court ruling that held the owners of the Mets could not build a mall on city-owned parkland. The land in question, the former site of Shea Stadium, which was demolished in 2008, is currently the Mets parking lot. A 1961 law allowed that parkland to be used for stadium purposes, a cut-out that a mall would not have satisfied, the court found.

Full article:
The Willets Point Mall Is Dead

[Ceetar]

The Village Voice wrote: A 1961 law allowed that parkland to be used for stadium purposes, a cut-out that a mall would not have satisfied, the court found.

I don't know why they didn't just call it the "Shea Stadium Mall at Citi Field" and include a covered walkway into Citi Field. suddenly it's part of the stadium. boom.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I happened to notice recently that the entire Iron Triangle is now clear of body shops and parts yards of all kinds. There is still years of environmental remediation required but what would make sense is a restaurant/retail/hotel strip fronting 126th that would resemble the "ballpark village" opposite the outfield entrance at the St. Louis park we saw last year.



The rear of Busch is on the right hand side of the street; the "Village" (mix of restaurant, Cards hall of fame and rooftop seating providing distant OF views into the stadium a la Wrigley on the left). The latter wouldn't work at Citi unless they were really high or Batmags gets his wish and they remove the ugly scoreboards.

[ashie62]

They already have a mall called "Citifield.

[Frayed Knot]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Willets Point Mall Is Dead

He is?!?!
Oh, wait a minute ... you said the MALL.
Whew! Nevermind. I thought we were going to be down one poster there for a minute.

[metirish]

Scott and Ron were talking about the Rangers new stadium being built and showed a computer generated version, ballpark and Mall type deal too....

[Frayed Knot]

metirish wrote: Scott and Ron were talking about the Rangers new stadium being built and showed a computer generated version, ballpark and Mall type deal too....

That's essentially what the Braves have created at their new crib in [crossout]Atlanta[/crossout] Cumberland, GA
Not coincidental, I don't think, that both the Braves and the Rangers are in suburbs more than actual cities -- Arlington, TX is some 20 miles outside of Dallas -- and so the suburban mall type thing works better there.
I guess one can say that Flushing is kind of a city/suburb hybrid.

The Cards park is in the city right next to where the old one was but we're talking about a much smaller city in StL

[Guest 41Forever]

Frayed Knot wrote: metirish wrote: Scott and Ron were talking about the Rangers new stadium being built and showed a computer generated version, ballpark and Mall type deal too.... That's essentially what the Braves have created at their new crib in [crossout]Atlanta[/crossout] Cumberland, GA Not coincidental, I don't think, that both the Braves and the Rangers are in suburbs more than actual cities -- Arlington, TX is some 20 miles outside of Dallas -- and so the suburban mall type thing works better there. I guess one can say that Flushing is kind of a city/suburb hybrid. The Cards park is in the city right next to where the old one was but we're talking about a much smaller city in StL

The Ballpark Village thing in St. Louis is pretty neat. We were in Cincinnati for a game last month, and there is a restaurant/shopping area building up around that stadium, too. It's filling the space between GAB and the football stadium.

[Edgy MD]

I swear, what I loved about watching TBA last night is that, not only was the house packed, but 85% of the folks seemed to be in their seats watching baseball.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I went there once on a biz trip many years ago, when Arod was still a Ranger. I got a seat a few rows behind the 3rd base dugout. Small Sample Size, but my neighbors were completely ignorant there was a baseball game going on there, and this was long before I was a dad or anything, felt compelled to remind a guy near me to remind his kids that a right handed batter was going to kill one of them with a foul ball if they didn't start paying attention. Sure enough we got a whizzer nearby soon after (no injuries, a section over and maybe a row higher).

I thought the grass thing was kinda cheesy (I guess they regulate who is allowed to retreive the balls out there or you could imagine the injuries) and it was definitely a suburban, off-ramp, highway accessed kind of Fake News park.

[Edgy MD]

I swear, what I loved about watching TBA last night is that, not only was the house packed, but 85% of the folks seemed to be in their seats watching baseball.

Yes, I should have put a caveat in there: " ... in their seats seemingly watching baseball."

The long tangent on the two-foot frank was frustrating.

[Guest d'Kong76]

Building a mall there would have been financial disaster before the last slab of
cement dried. Malls are almost as out of style as Jeff's hairdo (or whatever that
thing is). I don't really get the whole thing, parking sucks as it is and they wanted
to build a mall there? Apartments? A school? What's next, Madoff Amusement Park?

[Ceetar]

d'Kong76 wrote: Building a mall there would have been financial disaster before the last slab of cement dried. Malls are almost as out of style as Jeff's hairdo (or whatever that thing is). I don't really get the whole thing, parking sucks as it is and they wanted to build a mall there? Apartments? A school? What's next, Madoff Amusement Park?

Casino. Honestly I'd put 4:1 odds on Casino at this point.

[Benjamin Grimm]

d'Kong76 wrote: I don't really get the whole thing, parking sucks as it is and they wanted to build a mall there?

I agree. Maybe they could have been clever and built the mall on stilts, so that all (or most, actually) of the parking spaces would still be available. It would still be a problem, because mall parking would interfere with game parking, but it would have had less of an impact. I don't know if they would have gotten away with it.

[Frayed Knot]

Yeah, what the aim of the whole plan was is still unclear to me although it obviously has the ultimate goal of bringing in more cash, particularly on the near 300 days/year with no games.
By coincidence I was just reading an article about how both aging malls and some newer big box stores are looking to turn their parking areas -- in many cases overbuilt and now far larger
than what they need -- into extra retail space.

[Guest Mets Willets Point]

Reports of my being mauled to death are greatly exaggerated.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Here's what they should do: Build the mall on stilts, so that there would be less of an impact on parking, and make it look, from the outside anyway, exactly like Shea Stadium!

[Benjamin Grimm]

Assocated Press wrote: NEW YORK (AP) — A long-planned redevelopment project for a neighborhood of run-down car-repair shops next to the New York Mets' stadium is back on the drawing board, Mayor Bill de Blasio announced Tuesday. Under the revamped version of the Willets Point project adjacent to Citi Field, all of the 1,100 apartments will be affordable to low- and moderate-income New Yorkers, the Democratic mayor said. "This project delivers big on the No. 1 priority for people in Queens: finding an affordable place to live," de Blasio said. The project also will include a public elementary school, open space and retail shops. The redevelopment was first proposed by former Mayor Michael Bloomberg, an independent who vowed to transform Willets Point's grimy auto body shops and potholed streets into "New York's next great neighborhood." The original Bloomberg plan called for 5,500 apartments, a hotel, convention center and retail stores. The plan appeared dead in 2015 when a court ruled the city could not take a piece of Flushing Meadows Corona Park for a 1.4 million-square-foot shopping mall. The latest version of the plan will not include the mall. The New York Times reports the city has spent $287 million on land in the Willets Point area, cleaning it of the remains of hazardous chemicals and paying for the relocation of businesses. City officials said the latest redevelopment plan will make good use of the site. "After years of false starts and controversies, this is a thoughtful way to get shovels in the ground, keep our promises to this community, and begin building an affordable neighborhood for seniors and working families," Deputy Mayor for Housing and Economic Development Alicia Glen said.

I'm glad the mall is still off the table, but I'm a little disappointed about the loss of the hotel. It would have been potentially convenient for me. But the idea of an elementary school is pretty cool. I would have loved it if my elementary school was across the street from a major league stadium instead of across from a fire house.

[Ceetar]

A nice pregame restaurant spot would be nice, or postgame?

we got the brewery part covered now, so whatever.

[Guest d'Kong76]

Mets Willets Point wrote: Reports of my being mauled to death are greatly exaggerated.

Many months later, still funny...

[Guest Mets Willets Point]

There's a high school directly across from Fenway Park. I'm guessing my son will want to go there when the time comes.

[HahnSolo]

Mets Willets Point wrote: There's a high school directly across from Fenway Park. I'm guessing my son will want to go there when the time comes.

Dobbins Tech in Philly was across the street from old Connie Mack Stadium.

[Centerfield]

I think an area of residential/retail would be terrific. They have water right there. I wish there was some way to turn that area into Baltimore.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

I mean, all of youse pining for pregame restaurants and stuff to do... do any of you guys get across the bridge into Flushing, like, ever? Crazy good restaurants abound-- including a NY Times 3-star Sichuan joint-- and plenty affordable, too. Closer to Manhattan, five minutes by train, there are countless Thai, Salvadorian, Filipino, and Mexican delights.

It would be cool to have a bar or three across the street, granted. But anyone decrying the neighborhood has never gone a train stop/bus stop or two in either direction.

[nymr83]

LW, thats nice for people who are taking the train, but nobody who drove to the game wants to park the car, leave the stadium by train, go somewhere, and come back by train before the game. Nor do they want to fight the mobs to the train when the game ends to do it then. If its not walkable it might as well be in Manhattan for most people.

[Lefty Specialist]

Yeah, it's got to be walkable. I've been to the Cards thing and it's pretty nice. They have a clean slate across the street from Citi so there are things they can do if they don't screw it up. But with the Wilpons involved, who knows.

[Centerfield]

Nymr83 wrote: LW, thats nice for people who are taking the train, but nobody who drove to the game wants to park the car, leave the stadium by train, go somewhere, and come back by train before the game. Nor do they want to fight the mobs to the train when the game ends to do it then. If its not walkable it might as well be in Manhattan for most people.

That's the thing. You don't have to.

Drive to Flushing and park there. The paid garages cost less than the parking at Citi and the muni lots are super cheap (just make sure it's a 24 hour lot in case the game lets out late). In the area you have the best Korean in all of NYC. Some great Chinese food as well. You hop on the Subway and you're one stop from Citi. No crowds since very few approach the game from Flushing. It's just as easy to leave. After the game, the hordes are heading to the express Manhattan bound side. You and four others will be looking for the Flushing bound train. You'll get a seat or ten if you want to stretch your legs. Leaving Flushing is a hundred times easier than trying to fight the Citifield traffic.

[Centerfield]

But that being said, none of the restaurants or neighborhoods in either direction have any Mets flavor at all.

Having a strip of retail specifically geared toward Mets fans would be something.

[Ceetar]

Centerfield wrote: Nymr83 wrote: LW, thats nice for people who are taking the train, but nobody who drove to the game wants to park the car, leave the stadium by train, go somewhere, and come back by train before the game. Nor do they want to fight the mobs to the train when the game ends to do it then. If its not walkable it might as well be in Manhattan for most people. That's the thing. You don't have to. Drive to Flushing and park there. The paid garages cost less than the parking at Citi and the muni lots are super cheap (just make sure it's a 24 hour lot in case the game lets out late). In the area you have the best Korean in all of NYC. Some great Chinese food as well. You hop on the Subway and you're one stop from Citi. No crowds since very few approach the game from Flushing. It's just as easy to leave. After the game, the hordes are heading to the express Manhattan bound side. You and four others will be looking for the Flushing bound train. You'll get a seat or ten if you want to stretch your legs. Leaving Flushing is a hundred times easier than trying to fight the Citifield traffic.

nah. I did that while they were building Citi. It was not an overall pleasant experience, and it's completely unwieldy if it's a day game. Yes, the subway is somewhat easier, but there are plenty of times when they're backed up going into flushing because all the trains are on the other side going the other way waiting to pick up crowds of people. Sometimes you have to wait for a train too. And then for those of us coming from the west/northwest it's actually driving PAST the park. Plus many of us non commuters/city dwellers don't always have a metrocard or one with money and that becomes an additional expense, especially if you're a family.

And it's not that hard to get out of the parking lot if you park in the right spots. There are times I made the 24 mi 30-45 minute trip home (standing watching for the final out and then walking down the stairs) as the postgame show ended. I had similar success going the other way to Valley Stream, similar eta probably.

I mean, you could eat before you come to, or go inside and eat there. But there's something to be said for a neighboring place that you KNOW will be packed with Mets fans at the appropriate times. Like watching a 4pm Nats start before a 7pm Saturday game or something.

[Centerfield]

Ceetar wrote: nah. I did that while they were building Citi. It was not an overall pleasant experience, and it's completely unwieldy if it's a day game. Yes, the subway is somewhat easier, but there are plenty of times when they're backed up going into flushing because all the trains are on the other side going the other way waiting to pick up crowds of people. Sometimes you have to wait for a train too. And then for those of us coming from the west/northwest it's actually driving PAST the park. Plus many of us non commuters/city dwellers don't always have a metrocard or one with money and that becomes an additional expense, especially if you're a family.

It's not for everyone. My kids love the train. And to emerge from underground and see the field as you approach. To me, that's part of the fun.

Plus the Korean food. So good. Say what you will about the BBQ everyone else gets, the noodle houses are the best. Sam Won Gak has the best Cha Jang Myun.

Ceetar wrote: But there's something to be said for a neighboring place that you KNOW will be packed with Mets fans at the appropriate times. Like watching a 4pm Nats start before a 7pm Saturday game or something.

And this is the thing really. Something like Ballpark Village for the Mets would be amazing. You have the water, the harbor, so much potential.

Maybe the Wilpons should sell to someone who has some experience in real estate development. Someone capable of turning that area into gold.