Hall of Fame ballot

[ashie62]

Mets Guy in Michigan wrote: seawolf17 wrote: I'm coming around on the whole thing. Despite my vicious hatred for Roger Clemens, I feel like you have to put him in there. Bonds too. It's just not a representative Hall without them. But then what about Pete Rose, who clearly had a gambling addiction, now recognized as a mental wellness problem?

I agree although it may be be too progressive for many to accept.

[nymr83]

Mets Guy in Michigan wrote: seawolf17 wrote: I'm coming around on the whole thing. Despite my vicious hatred for Roger Clemens, I feel like you have to put him in there. Bonds too. It's just not a representative Hall without them. But then what about Pete Rose, who clearly had a gambling addiction, now recognized as a mental wellness problem?

Gambling on games in which you are a participant does more harm to the credibility of the game than drugs ever could.

[Frayed Knot]

Steroids were also much more of a gray area during most of that (pre-2003) period. Nothing uncertain about either the legality of, or the punishment for, gambling within MLB.

[Edgy MD]

Hard to speak about Pete Rose's gambling problem as a thing of the past.

[MFS62]

Murray Chass submitted a blank ballot, because he's a gigantic douche. Absolutely unacceptable. Thank you, Mr. Chass. We're going to strip you of your vote and give it to someone who gives a damn. http://mlb.nbcsports.com/2017/01/08/murray-chass-intentionally-turned-in-a-blank-hall-of-fame-ballot/ Chass' column: http://www.murraychass.com/?p=10495

Since the admission is based on percent of votes cast, his actions could theoretically deprive a player who is just short of the 75% needed for induction.
As the writer said, if he doesn't like the system, he should find a way to improve it.

Chass hole.

Later

[Valadius]

We're up to 191 ballots, or about 44% of the expected vote. Raines and Bagwell seem to have cleared the threshold for induction. Raines needed 20 new votes and has picked up 25, while Bagwell needed 12 and has picked up 16. It's going to be very close for Pudge, Vlad, and Hoffman. Closers, for whatever reason, seem to do better on non-public votes, while Pudge and Vlad are facing the (frankly, idiotic) "first-ballot" question. Pudge, of course, also has Jose Canseco's book to deal with.

Raines - 91.6%
Bagwell - 91.1%
Pudge - 80.1%
Vlad - 74.3%
Hoffman - 73.3%
Edgar - 67.5%
Bonds - 64.4%
Clemens - 63.9%
Mussina - 61.3%
Schilling - 52.4%
Smith - 29.3%
Manny - 25.1%
Walker - 23.6%
McGriff - 16.2%
Kent - 13.1%
Sheffield - 12.6%
Wagner - 11.5%
Sosa - 9.9%
Posada - 4.2%

[seawolf17]

Would love to see Posada fail to crack 5%.

[Edgy MD]

I'm being foolish, allowing myself to get very excited for Tim Raines.

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

.

Edited January 11, 2017 by Guest

[nymr83]

Mets Guy in Michigan wrote: Encouraging to see Edger Martinez getting closer to 70 percent. Bodes well for eventual selection.

I still don't know about him. its a tough sell.

[Valadius]

The announcement is at 6 PM tomorrow. Over half of the ballots have been made public. Many of the ballots released in the past few days have been inexplicable, including one from AP's Canadian Bureau chief Rob Gillies that only contains Guerrero and Walker, and one from ESPN's Pedro Gomez, which consists of Hoffman, McGriff, Mussina, and Smith. The Cleveland Plain Dealer's Bill Livingston signed and sent back a blank ballot, but now says he thought that was how you abstain from voting. (It isn't.) It does appear that many of the "first-ballot" purist votes have been revealed in the past couple of days, as Pudge and Vlad's chances have been trending down.

Raines - 89.8%
Bagwell - 88.4%
Pudge - 78.2%
Hoffman - 72.4%
Vlad - 72.0%
Edgar - 66.2%
Bonds - 62.7%
Clemens - 61.8%
Mussina - 59.1%
Schilling - 51.1%
Smith - 30.2%
Manny - 23.6%
Walker - 23.1%
McGriff - 17.3%
Kent - 15.6%
Wagner - 11.6%
Sheffield - 11.1%
Sosa - 9.3%
Posada - 4.4%

[Vic Sage]

i thought the rise of the Quants would have an effect on HOF voting, but seeing Hoffman at 72% and Wagner at 11% (when it should probably be the reverse) makes me think we're not as far along as i thought.

[metsmarathon]

Valadius wrote: ...that only contains Guerrero and Walker, ... which consists of Hoffman, McGriff, Mussina, and Smith.

these voters realize, don't they, that not voting for one guy doesn't help, in any way, the guy(s) you are voting for.

they're not being compared against each other, but against the total number of ballots received.

it would be a far different (and, ooh, much more interesting - so voting for one player on your ballot would carry more weight than voting for ten players!) story if you needed to receive a certain percentage of the total number of votes cast to receive enshrinement.

so for instance, if the standard was to carry 10% of the vote, last year, both griffey (12.5%) and piazza (10.44%) would've still gotten in, but the prior year, only randy johnson (11.55%) and pedro (10.82%) would've gotten in, leaving smoltz (9.84%) and biggio (9.82%) out in the cold, presuming voting remained the same. a lower standard of 9% would've seen bagwell (9.01%) join the club last year, though that "9%" seems more arbitrary than a round "10%"

aaanyways... back to the thread.

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

I'm guessing just Raines and Bagwell, with Pudge and Vlad and maybe Hoffman getting in next year.

Wouldn't want Murray Chass to have to sit through too many induction speeches. (And yes, that was one of his reasons for not voting for too many players.)

[Valadius]

Mets Guy in Michigan wrote: Wouldn't want Murray Chass to have to sit through too many induction speeches. (And yes, that was one of his reasons for not voting for too many players.)

To be clear, he submitted a blank ballot with the full intention and knowledge that it counted.

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

Valadius wrote: Mets Guy in Michigan wrote: Wouldn't want Murray Chass to have to sit through too many induction speeches. (And yes, that was one of his reasons for not voting for too many players.) To be clear, he submitted a blank ballot with the full intention and knowledge that it counted.

Yup. Awful.

[Valadius]

Here are all of the Post's ballots.

Larry Brooks (9): Jeff Bagwell, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Edgar Martinez, Mike Mussina, Tim Raines, Ivan Rodriguez, Gary Sheffield, Larry Walker

Don Burke (8): Jeff Bagwell, Vladimir Guerrero, Trevor Hoffman, Jeff Kent, Edgar Martinez, Tim Raines, Ivan Rodriguez, Billy Wagner

Brian Costello (10): Jeff Bagwell, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Vladimir Guerrero, Trevor Hoffman, Manny Ramirez, Ivan Rodriguez, Curt Schilling, Gary Sheffield, Sammy Sosa

Ken Davidoff (10): Jeff Bagwell, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Edgar Martinez, Mike Mussina, Tim Raines, Manny Ramirez, Ivan Rodriguez, Curt Schilling, Larry Walker

Mark Hale (10): Jeff Bagwell, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Vladimir Guerrero, Edgar Martinez, Mike Mussina, Manny Ramirez, Ivan Rodriguez, Curt Schilling, Larry Walker

Kevin Kernan (10): Jeff Bagwell, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Trevor Hoffman, Edgar Martinez, Fred McGriff, Tim Raines, Ivan Rodriguez, Curt Schilling, Gary Sheffield

George A. King III (9): Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Vladimir Guerrero, Trevor Hoffman, Mike Mussina, Manny Ramirez, Ivan Rodriguez, Gary Sheffield, Sammy Sosa

Mike Puma (10): Jeff Bagwell, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Vladimir Guerrero, Edgar Martinez, Mike Mussina, Tim Raines, Ivan Rodriguez, Curt Schilling, Billy Wagner

Joel Sherman (9): Jeff Bagwell, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Vladimir Guerrero, Edgar Martinez, Mike Mussina, Tim Raines, Ivan Rodriguez, Curt Schilling

Mike Vaccaro (10): Jeff Bagwell, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Vladimir Guerrero, Edgar Martinez, Mike Mussina, Tim Raines, Manny Ramirez, Ivan Rodriguez, Billy Wagner

George Willis (10): Jeff Bagwell, Vladimir Guerrero, Jeff Kent, Edgar Martinez, Fred McGriff, Mike Mussina, Jorge Posada, Tim Raines, Gary Sheffield, Lee Smith

Totals (out of 11): Jeff Bagwell — 10; Ivan Rodriguez — 10; Barry Bonds — 9; Roger Clemens — 9; Edgar Martinez — 9; Vladimir Guerrero — 8; Mike Mussina — 8; Tim Raines — 8; Curt Schilling — 6; Manny Ramirez — 5; Gary Sheffield — 5; Trevor Hoffman — 4; Billy Wagner — 3; Larry Walker — 3; Jeff Kent — 2; Fred McGriff — 2; Sammy Sosa — 2; Jorge Posada — 1; Lee Smith — 1

[Edgy MD]

Montréalaise favorite memory of Tim Raines is his comeback game against the Mets in 1987, after being forced to sit out the first month of the season due to collusion.

Also, Expo hats were multi-colored on the inside, too.

Jonah Keri, author of a book about the Expos titled Up, Up, & Away: “I watched it on TV. It was May 2, 1987 and 1986 was the offseason when owners colluded against the players and Raines and (Andre) Dawson both got hosed. Dawson goes to the Cubs, Raines goes back to the Expos, and there’s an obscure rule that’s triggered because he signed so late that he has to sit out the first month of the season. He’s not even allowed to train with the team, so he has to go to a local high school team (in Florida) to work out — obviously not the best way to prepare for a major-league season. I’ve asked Raines about this on a number of occasions and he said he was terrified. In batting practice, he said he couldn’t hit the ball out of the cage, he kept fouling balls off. He was so nervous … more nervous than for his major-league debut, more nervous than for any other game in his career. Raines comes around third base (after hitting his grand slam) and you see the guys in the dugout bowing to him. It was just an incredible thing. One of the great moments in Expos history.”

[Ceetar]

lol. Russo's an idiot

[tweet:2hacaa89]https://twitter.com/MLBNetwork/status/821805661692497921[/tweet:2hacaa89]

[Edgy MD]

Chris, use your inside voice.

[Frayed Knot]

Edgy MD wrote: Chris, use your inside voice.

That IS his inside voice.

[Guest MadDog]

Frayed Knot wrote: Edgy MD wrote: Chris, use your inside voice. That IS his inside voice.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA GOOD AFTERNOON, EVERYBODY!

YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME! BARRY BONDS IS! A! HALL! OF! FAMER!

---six seconds of awkward silence--

SAY SOMETHING FUNNY, MIKE!

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Welcome back, you goofy idiot, you.

[Edgy MD]

Frayed Knot wrote: Edgy MD wrote: Chris, use your inside voice. That IS his inside voice.

And you're telling me people listen to that? Voluntarily? And somehow maintain their mental stability?

It explains Trump, I guess.

[ashie62]

I'm officially going with Raines, Bagwell and Hoffman.

[Edgy MD]

[Edgy MD]

Jeff Bagwell ... !

... and ...

[Edgy MD]

... Tim "Torrential" Raines!

[Edgy MD]

... Ivan Rodriguez (announced in Spanish!)!

[seawolf17]

Good class. All good picks.