Catcher 2017

[Frayed Knot]

I have to occasionally remind myself that Ramos won't turn 30 until the second half of next season as I tend to think of him as several years older than that.
At the same time you tend to worry about big, heavy bodies like his (listed at 6' 1'' - [u:2ali4if5]255[/u:2ali4if5]) once they hit 30, especially one who squats for a living and now has now major knee surgery under his belt. He's also missed significant time in other seasons as well and the one other season in which he topped 400 ABs (2015) his OPS was just 616 as opposed to this year's 850 so you wonder which is real.

But it's all kind of moot right now as there's no way he's ready for April and it might be several months after that.
He picked a great time to have a career year but then had terrible timing on his injury, both for the Nats and for himself.

[Centerfield]

You'd have to think he makes sense for an American League team, as he might be ready to contribute with the bat earlier than he can squat behind the plate.

It was a given that he was going to get a multi-year deal and probably bolt from Washington, but now I wonder if he takes the QO, gets healthy, then tries again next year.

It goes without saying, but I'd be wary of giving a guy a multi-year deal who is coming off a year that looks like it might be an aberration, big, on the wrong side of 30, and coming off multiple knee operations.

[Frayed Knot]

Do the Nats even extend a QO at this point?
They obviously would have before the injury. But while it's one thing to pay $14-15 million for a catcher for one season, it's quite another to cough up that kind of cash hoping that you'll get even a half season out of him.
And they'd have to pay that on top of the plans they'd have to make to cover the catching position for the first two?, three?, four? months of the season while Ramos is still recovering.

[Zvon]

I've really liked Ramos, what I've seen of him vs. the Mets anyways. But from what I read here we might have just seen his peak.
Lets make Tebow a catcher.

[Ceetar]

Zvon wrote: I've really liked Ramos, what I've seen of him vs. the Mets anyways. But from what I read here we might have just seen his peak. Lets make Tebow a catcher.

against his religion.

[nymr83]

d'Kong76 wrote: If an ump is calling pitches based on good framing or bad framing they are doing their job properly. Of course I meant NOT doing...

This is definitely true, but until such time as they institute a non-human strike-caller, framing is a good (and pretty measurable) skill. much like a basketball player who is good at pretending to have been fouled.

[Vic Sage]

i don't really get the desire to dump Travis for Plawecki. d'Arnaud has actually shown that, when healthy, he can be a productive player in the majors over the course of a season; Plawecki has not. Plawecki didn't even dominate in the minors; but d'Arnaud did. Nor does Plawecki have any kind of significant defensive edge (if any) over d'Arnaud. Travis is going into his prime, age 27 turning 28 next year. Yes, injuries are an ongoing concern, and availability is one of the most important abilities a player needs. But replacing d'Arnaud with Ramos doesn't really solve the injury/availability issue; plus, he's older (turning 30) and coming off a career year, so he'll cost alot. I think investing in age 30+ catchers coming off career years, whose career stats aren't much better than d'Arnaud, is a bad idea, and expecting Plawecki to outperform d'Arnaud, given what they have each accomplished in their careers to date, isn't a good bet either. Yes, a quality backup is important, particularly one that can shut down the running game for those of our starters who suck at holding runners. That's not Plawecki either.

[Vic Sage]

if we want to try and trade for Zunino, or Swihart, or another strong young catcher, then fine. Even Rupp. The Phillies have a hot prospect, so Rupp might be available. But overpaying for Ramos, or dumping Travis for Plawecki, don't sound like great options.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

With all due respect, anyone saying d'Arnaud is behind Rene Fucking Rivera on their personal depth chart is kinda fucking loony and/or kidding themselves.

I'm open to non-TdA options behind the plate. I'm not necessarily craving 'em, but I'm open.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Edgy MD wrote: There's certainly a handful of good catchers out there to pursue. Wilson Ramos would have been one of the most appealing, but unfortunately, he's going in for knee surgery, and will likely miss most of the first half of 2017.

Might complement TdA's annual injury stint nicely, no?

[Edgy MD]

Well, I was certainly thinking he'd be a possible hedge against d'Arnaud not taking a step forward. Since he's out of action for (let's say) the first third of the season, you can give a one-year deal with a healthy option. Say, $6.5 million for the first year and $11.5 million for the option year. If d'Arnaud isn't prospering, he arrives in June, becomes the starter, and hopefully earns that option. (You can even put a vest on the option to guarantee it if he gets into 100 games, or perhaps 90).

If d'Arnaud is prospering, he becomes the backup. If d'Arnaud and Plawecki are both prospering and healthy and he arrives healthy in June, they have a lovely problem on their hands.

But there's no reason to get too fixated on Ramos. There's Jonathan Lucroy, who a lot of Met fans were clamoring for and offering up shiny pieces in pursuit of a few months back. There's Govany Soto, Nick Hundley, and Matt Wieters. And of course, there's the trade market.

[Centerfield]

I think Lucroy has an option that will be picked up.

[Frayed Knot]

The official word on Ramos became public in the last 24 hours:
- had his surgery (the exact date apparently still a state secret)
- reconstructed his anterior cruciate ligament, repaired the medial and lateral meniscus
- six to eight months rehabilitation time

[Edgy MD]

Soccer surgery.

[nymr83]

I would keep d'Arnaud as the starter with a Rivera-type as the backup on opening day and hope for the best. He still has a higher upside, and at lower cost in dollars or trade chips, than anyone they could get from the outside. Plawecki plays every day in AAA so you can see what you have there too. The pecking order remains fluid if one guy hits and the other doesn't.

[Ceetar]

Outside zone called strikes this postseason

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

Nymr83 wrote: I would keep d'Arnaud as the starter with a Rivera-type as the backup on opening day and hope for the best. He still has a higher upside, and at lower cost in dollars or trade chips, than anyone they could get from the outside. Plawecki plays every day in AAA so you can see what you have there too. The pecking order remains fluid if one guy hits and the other doesn't.

I think Travis needs to show his pitchers that he can throw out someone trying to steal second base. Isn't that how Rivera got his foot in the playing time door in the first place, because people were running wild on the Thor/Travis combo?

[Edgy MD]

I think the notion that d'Arnaud can't throw somebody out is distinctly overstated.

It's not like having Rivera catch Syndergaard in 23 of his 33 starts stopped Syndergaard from allowing the most stolen bases against in decades.

If anything, I'd like to see Travis prove that he can sing as well as his brother.

[youtube:3awpil23]_xnG1Bs4k18[/youtube:3awpil23]

[MFS62]

Frayed Knot wrote: They obviously would have before the injury. But while it's one thing to pay $14-15 million for a catcher for one season, it's quite another to cough up that kind of cash hoping that you'll get even a half season out of him. And they'd have to pay that on top of the plans they'd have to make to cover the catching position for the first two?, three?, four? months of the season while Ramos is still recovering.

Similar issues can be raised in the Walker QO thread. Is he worth it for half a season?

Later

[Frayed Knot]

I don't think there's anything suggesting that Neil Walker's late season injury will cause him to miss any of 2017 and certainly not half of it. It's a far different situation with Ramos who is guaranteed to miss a sizable chunk of the season at best at which point he'll be a 255 pound catcher with a reconstructed knee.

Plus, if/when Ramos does come back will his team be getting the 850 OPS of 2016 or the approx 710 that he averaged prior to last season or even the 616 that he put up in 2015?
Betting on Walker -- whose 2016 season was good but not that much over his career norms -- is a far less iffy proposition.




Back to the catching scene: Brian McCann is probably available from the Yanx for the right price.

[MFS62]

Back to the catching scene: Brian McCann is probably available from the Yanx for the right price.

I can see your point on Walker.
As for McCann, he has both MFY and Braves stench on him.
More importantly, he has a lot of catching miles on his tires. I don't think he can still be a regular catcher and will probably demand too much money to be a platoon player.
That said, he's better than any catcher the Mets now have under contract.

Later

[Centerfield]

That right price might just be taking on the remainder of his salary, which is significant. $17 million a year for 2017 and 2018, plus a vesting option at $15 million for 2019. Going into his age 33 year.

Has largely been considered an adequate defender throughout his career.

Career .799 OPS, and has averaged .742 over his last three seasons, in MFYIII. I don't know him well enough to know how many of those 20 HR's would be F9's in CitiField.

I don't know. Doesn't seem like a Sandy type of move. Aging catcher, signed long-term, coming from a little league park.

I think I'd rather keep Travis than take the risk.

[Frayed Knot]

I'm not advocating for McCann -- just throwing it out there really -- in fact if I got the word that the Mets were interested I'd pretty strongly UNadvocate him.

The biggest problem may be that he, probably more than any other hitter in baseball, has been hurt by the era of defensive shifts.
The tumble his OPS has taken in recent years -- 850 during his peak ATL seasons vs 731 as an MFY -- is almost totally BA-related. So while his walk rate and Isolated Power numbers have stayed more or less constant throughout his career, the .290-ish BAs he was putting up with the Braves from 2006-2011 have plummeted to the .230's in the Bronx. His doubles totals have gone into hiding as well (35-40 per/year has become ~15) as it's tough to hit two-baggers when you only hit to RF, and RF is small, and there are four fielders out there, and if you're not the slowest guy in the league you're at least in the class picture.

I suppose one could argue that without the short YSIII RF porch that he'd have incentive to get less pull-happy, but that's a helluva gamble to take for that kind of money for a guy who's nearly as big and slow as Ramos plus is a full four years older.

[Edgy MD]

Catcher fever ... Catch It!

In-House Options

Player	Age	Level	G (G@C)	PA	BA	OBP	SLG	OPS	HR	RBI	SB	2017 Salary
Travis d'Arnaud	27	MLB	75 (73)	276	.247	.307	.323	.629	4	15	0	$542,604
		AAA	8 (3)	38	.333	.429	.500	.929	0	2	0
		A+	3 (2)	14	.310	.474	.379	.853	0	5	1
René Rivera	32	MLB	65 (59)	207	.222	.291	.341	.632	6	26	0	$1,700,000
		AAA	8 (8)	29	.280	.357	.320	.677	0	5	0
Kevin Plawecki	25	MLB	48 (45)	151	.197	.298	.265	.563	1	11	0	$511,360
		AAA	55 (41)	207	.300	.348	.484	.832	8	40	0

In-House Minor Leaguers

Player	Age	Stats	G (G@C)	PA	BA	OBP	SLG	OPS	HR	RBI	SB
Xorge Carillo	27	AAA	5 (4)	16	.333	.333	.333	.667	0	1	0
		AA	80 (79)	311	.269	.347	.364	.711	4	24	0

In-House Minor League Free Agents

Player	Age	Level	G (G@C)	PA	BA	OBP	SLG	OPS	HR	RBI	SB
Jeff Glenn	24	AAA	6 (1)	5	.400	.400	1.000	1.400	1	3	0
Raywilly Gomez	26	AA	13 (7)	37	.182	.250	.242	.492	0	4	0
Johnny Monell	30	AAA	113 (62)	461	.276	.336	.470	.806	19	75	2

MLB Free Agents

Player	Age	Level	G (G@C)	PA	BA	OBP	SLG	OPS	HR	RBI	SB	2017 Salary
Matt Wieters	30	MLB (BAL)	124 (117)	464	.243	.302	.409	.711	17	66	1	$15,800,000
Wilson Ramos*	28	MLB (WSH)	131 (128)	523	.307	.354	.496	.850	22	80	0	$5,350,000
Jason Castro	29	MLB (HOU)	113 (111)	376	.210	.307	.377	.684	11	32	2	$5,000,000
Chris Iannetta	33	MLB (SEA)	94 (93)	338	.210	.303	.329	.631	7	24	0	$4,550,000
A.J. Ellis	35	MLB (PHI)	64 (57)	196	.216	.301	.298	.599	2	22	2	$4,500,000
Jonathan Lucroy	30	MLB (TEX)	142 (126)	544	.292	.355	.500	.855	24	81	5	$4,375,000
Dioner Navarro	32	MLB (TOR)	101 (90)	334	.207	.265	.322	.587	6	35	1	$4,000,000
Nick Hundley	33	MLB (COL)	83 (79)	317	.260	.320	.439	.759	10	48	0	$3,150,000
			4 (3)	13	.182	.308	.273	.580	0	3	0
A.J. Pierzynski	39	MLB (ATL)	81 (64)	259	.219	.243	.304	.547	2	23	1	$3,050,000
		Rook	3 (1)	11	.444	.545	.556	1.101	0	1	0
Geovany Soto	33	MLB (LAA)	26 (23)	86	.269	.321	.487	.809	4	9	0	$2,800,000
		AAA	10 (7)	38	.194	.216	.389	.605	1	8	0
Alex Avila	29	MLB (CHW)	57 (54)	209	.213	.359	.373	.732	7	11	0	$2,500,000
		AAA	9 (5)	30	.333	.467	.500	.967	1	3	0
David Ross	39	MLB (CHC)	67 (58)	182	.229	.338	.446	.784	10	32	0	$2,500,000
Jeff Mathis	33	MLB (MIA)	41 (38)	132	.238	.267	.333	.601	2	15	0	$1,500,000
Drew Butera	33	MLB (KC)	56 (51)	133	.285	.328	.480	.808	4	16	0	$1,175,000
Josh Thole	29	MLB (TOR)	50 (50)	136	.169	.254	.220	.474	1	7	0	$507,500
Jarrod Saltalamacchia	31	MLB (DET)	92 (68)	292	.171	.284	.346	.630	12	38	0	$507,500
Miguel Olivo	38	AAA	81 (65)	313	.246	.289	.419	.708	10	34	1

[Centerfield]

I don't see a lot of viable options there. I think any upgrade would have to come via trade or pray that Travis gets his act together.

[Benjamin Grimm]

We know the Mets liked Lucroy, but he won't be a free agent unless (according to Baseball Reference) the Rangers decline his 2017 option, which would pay him $5,250,000.

[Edgy MD]

That's what they call an oversight.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

That list is pretty distressing on the one hand but good to see there's plenty of guys to invite to Spring Training.

It might be fun to reunite with original Met draftee Drew Butera who went in the Santana trade iirc.

[Gwreck]

I'd like to see them take a flier on Alex Avila. Change of scenery out of the AL central could be good for him. Still a very good defensive catcher even with the offense is inconsistent.

[Edgy MD]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: That list is pretty distressing on the one hand but good to see there's plenty of guys to invite to Spring Training. It might be fun to reunite with original Met draftee Drew Butera who went in the Santana trade iirc.

Butera is puzzler. He's failed to live up to any lofty hopes prospect watchers once had for him, spending his sporadic career consistently below the Mendoza Line, but getting frequently recalled (and into over 300 MLB games) for love of his glove.

Then came this season, when he hit the ball all over the place for the Royals. At 32, he finally found his stroke, going .285 / .328 / .480 // .808 in 56 games. It really tells you how much of a departure that was, when you see his career line is still only .198 / .253 / .295 // .548 with his breakthrough year factored in.

So yeah, make him a minor league offer and see what comes of it? Why not?