What's next for Harvey?

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

The other post was kind of a dumb joke. So I'm re-doing this very important poll

Edited May 20, 2016 by Guest

[Zvon]

I will after the post game interview sessions.

[Edgy MD]

When will he retire as many as 19 batters in an evening?

[Edgy MD]

Maybe he sees some time in the pen.

[Zvon]

lol, oh what a dolt.

[Zvon]

Maybe it's a simple thing....




I say he gets thru this thick patch of woods and comes out the other side just a tad more humble and less of a douche.

[Lefty Specialist]

I think skipping a start is in order. I wouldn't want him going out there against the Nats again in 4 days.

If there's nothing physical (The Guys haven't picked up on anything that could be injury-related), then he needs to work on stuff on the side with Warthen. All his pitches seem to be up.

Now that being said, I think there's a mental component too. He seemed to give up after the flubs in the field. Very Niese-esque, and that's not where you want to be. Clear the mechanism.

[Edgy MD]

In the old days, he'd
[list:4i2lem0j][*:4i2lem0j]miss two starts,[/*:m:4i2lem0j]
[*:4i2lem0j]work out of the pen three times, [/*:m:4i2lem0j]
[*:4i2lem0j]declare himself fixed, whether it was true or not,[/*:m:4i2lem0j]
[*:4i2lem0j]return to the rotation, and[/*:m:4i2lem0j]
[*:4i2lem0j]either succeed or fail.[/*:m:4i2lem0j][/list:u:4i2lem0j]

Nowatimes, switching somebody from the pen to the rotation or the rotation to the pen is just too much drama, with hours of talk about the trauma of foreshortening his workdays and then stretching them again.

But the bullpen is what is they should do.

[ashie62]

Status quo. He starts against the Nats and we shall see.

If Cabrera and Conforto make their plays this may be a moot issue. I hope.

[Frayed Knot]

If Cabrera & Conforto make their plays last night would only have been a smaller disaster. Yeah their errors and/or non-plays (along with Wright making two questionable throws) contributed but let's not wallpaper over the line-drives being hit all over the field last night, even some of the outs were hard.

I'm clueless as to what's wrong. There were brief references in the papers as to 'arm slot' issues but, even if so, those didn't just start yesterday and aren't going to make the entire problem go away by tomorrow.
Banishment to the bullpen for one go-around might be interesting if only in that it would let him 'air it out' for one trip through the lineup without the fear of getting mugged the 2nd time through which has been his undoing. A day off next Thursday (and the one after that) would allow more like a start and a half gap before he'd need to go again so maybe he'd get a couple of times relieving.

[Edgy MD]

It's funny, because there were twin ideas years ago, firstly, that a successful starter who was scuffling could work his problems with a temporary trip to the bullpen, and secondly, that a successful reliever who was scuffling could work his problems by getting a start or two. They were somewhat contradictory, but given a lack of options, managers tried them both, often enough.

[Benjamin Grimm]

"Scuffling" is my least favorite baseball euphemism, by the way.

[Edgy MD]

I'm in a funk, posting wise.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Ah, you're just scuffling.

[Guest d'Kong76]

Tuesday=Harveyday! Big. Huge. Rinse, repeat.
I don't know what's wrong with him, he looks troubled. Do people still take
Quaaludes these days? We slander him a lot, myself included, I hope he's
ok. We need The Dark Knight back NOW!!!

Edited May 20, 2016 by Guest

[MFS62]

He's been "working on stuff" between starts and any results haven't been too obvious. I think he needs to do it somewhere else.

I voted for two weeks in the minors. (hopefully, they're on a road trip- away from the bright lights of Vegas)
Let him work on stuff (mechanics? grip? release point? whatever) away from the constant scrutiny of the New York media and gain back some confidence by getting some hitters out.

Later

[Ceetar]

He's too good not to work through it, and I think ultimately he'll be better for it. I don't know what to make of the velocity issues unless they're just mechanics that he's still working on. arm strength. something? Hope it's not a warning sign of injury but if he's truly got less movement too sounds like it's probably mechanics.

For the most part he's been sorta okay. Maybe would've been last night with some better defense and some better luck on where those balls were hit. Seems like the best thing for him is to pitch more and work on it. I'd understand if they wanted to try to dodge the Nats before he's right, but I think you gotta throw him back in there. Get back on the horse. Metaphors. Plus, an adjustment might fool the Nats hitters who just saw him. They'll be expecting easy to square up Harvey and if he can get just a little bit more on the pitches, he should fool them nicely.

[Frayed Knot]

He's gone from a career of 7 H/9 to over 12 this season; from 0.6 HRs/9 to 0.9; a 4.78 K/BB ratio to 2.87; and a 2.53 ERA to 5.77

Small sample size or not (and it's a quarter season now so we can debate how small is really small) he ain't even close to sorta OK

[Benjamin Grimm]

I agree. I have no idea if it's physical, mechanical, mental, or what, but something is definitely very wrong.

It may right itself quickly. Or it may not. I expect the Mets will give him at least a little more rope.

[TransMonk]

Give him a couple weeks in Vegas away from the city and the team. He needs to get right.

Harvey's suckitude is not only costing games now, but I'm also weary of trading starting pitchers before the deadline to improve other areas if Harvey isn't himself.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I voted disabled list. His "rehab" in St. Lucie actually at a fat farm.

[Edgy MD]

Ceetar wrote: He's too good not to work through it, and I think ultimately he'll be better for it.

It's pitching, and successful pitching is ephemeral. That list I occasionally refer to of starting pitcher rankings is filled with guys who were a revelation at one point. Now they're bouncing around the league trying to find out where it all went wrong, trying to get the pieces in place again. Dwight Gooden was the greatest pitcher anybody had ever seen for 2 1/2 years. For four years after that, he was just a good pitcher. For the rest of his career, he was just a pitcher.

Tim Lincecum was a terror for a few years there. The last guy in the league you wanted to see. Now here he is at 31, so indifferently effective that he's just getting signed in late May. Hasn't even had arm surgery.

Maybe he will work through it, but I don't think anybody is too good not to work through it. Sometimes, you never find it again. And that, in addition to injuries, is why long-term deals for pitchers are terrifying. And that's why you build as much redundancy into your staff as possible.

[ashie62]

d'Kong76 wrote: Tuesday=Harveyday! Big. Huge. Rinse, repeat. I don't know what's wrong with him, he looks troubled. Do people still take Quaaludes these days? We slander him a lot, myself included, I hope he's ok. We need The Dark Knight back NOW!!!

He could see whoever inherited Dr. Lans job as the Mets behavorial health practioner.

I'd hat to find out he is drinking two six packs a day.

Might it be as simple as some people come back from Tommy John better or worse than others?

[Edgy MD]

I believe the man you are looking for is Dr. Jonathan Fader.



Dr. Jonathan Fader is a clinical and sport psychologist who works with individuals and organizations to improve mental performance, motivation and enjoyment. Jonathan is also the team psychologist for the New York Mets and co-founder of Union Square Practice, a leading mental wellness clinic in New York City.



Foreword by Sandy Alderson!

http://jonathanfader.com

[Chad ochoseis]

I turned on the game in the 4th and he was already gone, so I didn't actually see him, but the consensus seems to be that it's his head, not his arm. So he needs to spend a few weeks somewhere that he can get his head straight again. Somewhere quiet and peaceful, away from all the excitement, bright lights, and wild women. Where he can just focus on pitching, and not his image. Somewhere like Vegas.

[Guest d'Kong76]

Chad Ochoseis wrote: Somewhere quiet and peaceful, away from all the excitement, bright lights, and wild women. Where he can just focus on pitching, and not his image. Somewhere like Vegas.

You funny man!
Port St Lucie is probably a better idea (prescription) if it comes to demotion.

Edited May 20, 2016 by Guest

[Lefty Specialist]

You don't send someone to work on things in the PCL if you're trying to build up their cahnfidence. He should go to Port St Lucie or Binghamton if anywhere.

Either way, I don't see him (or Boras) accepting a voluntary demotion. So he'll have to straighten things up here while the Mets go a player short (again).

[Frayed Knot]

And then there’s this

———	GS	ERA	IP	WHiP	XBH
MATT HARVEY	9	5.77	48.1	1.66	20
STEVEN STRASBURG	9	6.50	44.1	1.69	19

Those are Harvey's 9 starts from this year as compared to Strasberg's first 9 starts in 2015.
The bad news in that contrast is that Strasburg did require a trip to the DL a short time later -- two actually, I forget the official reason(s) -- as he started only 3 games between the end of May and early August.
The good news is that Strasburg has essentially been the best pitcher in baseball (non-Kershaw division) since returning.
In 19 starts covering the final 10 of last season plus his first 9 this year, he's racked up: 2.33 ERA; 0.91 WHiP; 167 K/24 BB; and the Nats are 17-2 in those games

[Edgy MD]

Yeah, I was surprised to see that he was able to salvage his 2015 season, as poorly as it started. I guess I should be encouraged by that now.

[Frayed Knot]

That Strasberg signed long-term with the Nats when he did was, for a variety of reasons, surprising to most within baseball.
That same scenario posed a year ago at this time would have been utterly shocking.