The Jim Gosger Photo

[batmagadanleadoff]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Maybe that would explain why George Theodore switched from 18 to 9 mid-season '73. Maybe Gosger wanted his old 18 back.

This part is plausible because Gosger was a veteran who debuted 10 years earlier, while The Stork was a rookie and one of the last guys on the roster. So Gosger would've had the clout to engineer that switch. Besides, Theodore's reputation was that of very nice guy and so, might have been very willing to accomodate Gosger. Now if only we can get all of the other pieces of this puzzle to work together.

One other thing: Gosger never wore 18 in any of his other major league stints, prior to playing for the '69 Mets.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Milner usually wore a black batting glove on his left hand, but in this photo below, he's wearing a white or tan batting glove, similar to dugout guy's.

[fimg=444:2scvkwp4]https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1592/24583569246_445be5d44f_o.jpg[/fimg:2scvkwp4]

[fimg=555:2scvkwp4]https://goldinauctions.com/ItemImages/000005/5537e1_lg.jpeg[/fimg:2scvkwp4]

Could dugout guy be Clendenon? That would date the photo to '69. And then we'd be back to having to explain the skyline patch.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Guest

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: batmagadanleadoff wrote: Maybe that would explain why George Theodore switched from 18 to 9 mid-season '73. Maybe Gosger wanted his old 18 back. This part is plausible because Gosger was a veteran who debuted 10 years earlier, while The Stork was a rookie and one of the last guys on the roster. So Gosger would've had the clout to engineer that switch. Besides, Theodore's reputation was that of very nice guy and so, might have been very willing to accomodate Gosger. Now if only we can get all of the other pieces of this puzzle to work together. One other thing: Gosger never wore 18 in any of his other major league stints, prior to playing for the '69 Mets.

Even more interesting. Gosger is reportedly the man who coined the "Stork" nickname for Theodore, when they were teammates in Tidewater. So they were buds.

[batmagadanleadoff]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Maybe that would explain why George Theodore switched from 18 to 9 mid-season '73. Maybe Gosger wanted his old 18 back. This part is plausible because Gosger was a veteran who debuted 10 years earlier, while The Stork was a rookie and one of the last guys on the roster. So Gosger would've had the clout to engineer that switch. Besides, Theodore's reputation was that of very nice guy and so, might have been very willing to accomodate Gosger. Now if only we can get all of the other pieces of this puzzle to work together. One other thing: Gosger never wore 18 in any of his other major league stints, prior to playing for the '69 Mets. Even more interesting. Gosger is reportedly the man who coined the "Stork" nickname for Theodore, when they were teammates in Tidewater. So they were buds.

Wow. Never heard that one before. Unless I did, but then forgot that I did.

[dgwphotography]

I tink dugout guy is Clendenon. It just looks like him with the long arms, and overall pose. Plus, The white glove/wristband combination looks similar in a few photos I've seen of him, including this card:

[batmagadanleadoff]

dgwphotography wrote: I tink dugout guy is Clendenon. It just looks like him with the long arms, and overall pose. Plus, The white glove/wristband combination looks similar in a few photos I've seen of him, including this card

[fimg=444]https://goldinauctions.com/ItemImages/000005/5537e1_lg.jpeg[/fimg]

I agree with the pose part. I think that Clendenon leaned his body in the same fashion as dugout guy. What do you think about Gosger's uni? Flannels or double-knit?

[batmagadanleadoff]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: dgwphotography wrote: I tink dugout guy is Clendenon. It just looks like him with the long arms, and overall pose. Plus, The white glove/wristband combination looks similar in a few photos I've seen of him, including this card [fimg=444]https://goldinauctions.com/ItemImages/000005/5537e1_lg.jpeg[/fimg] I agree with the pose part. I think that Clendenon leaned his body in the same fashion as dugout guy. What do you think about Gosger's uni? Flannels or double-knit?

That left hand batting glove on the Clendenon card looks very similar to dugout guy's setup. It's a batting glove, then some skin, then a wrist-band. I thought it was all one piece -- a big batting glove that extended beyond the wrist. But Clendenon might be dugout guy. So explain the patch.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I tink dugout guy is Clendenon. It just looks like him with the long arms, and overall pose. Plus, The white glove/wristband combination looks similar in a few photos I've seen of him, including this card:

Breakthrough!

[dgwphotography]

It's not Jim Gosger - It's Dave Marshall in 1970.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I think we have our answer.

Next question: Why does that card say "SAN DIEGO PADRES"?

[batmagadanleadoff]

dgwphotography wrote: It's not Jim Gosger - It's Dave Marshall in 1970.

Makes sense to me. Marshall explains the patch, too. But it that's Marshall, it could be '71 too. I wonder if Gosger ever signed that pic.

[Guest d'Kong76]

Someone selling a fake autograph on a pic of wrong guy?
Priceless.

[dgwphotography]

Why fake a Jim Gosger? I'm thinking that he signed it at a card show without looking at it too closely.

[Edgy MD]

1969 Mets are easier to market than 1970 Mets, I would guess.

Rocky Dennis' life ambition was to complete his 1955 Dodgers card set. Even with stooges like Joe Pignatano. But how many people are trying to complete a 1956 Dodgers set?

[dgwphotography]

Edgy MD wrote: 1969 Mets are easier to market than 1970 Mets, I would guess. Rocky Dennis' life ambition was to complete his 1955 Dodgers card set. Even with stooges like Joe Pignatano. But how many people are trying to complete a 1956 Dodgers set?

I get that completely. I have a '69 Mets ball that is only missing a Buddy Harrelson signature

[batmagadanleadoff]

dgwphotography wrote: Edgy MD wrote: 1969 Mets are easier to market than 1970 Mets, I would guess. Rocky Dennis' life ambition was to complete his 1955 Dodgers card set. Even with stooges like Joe Pignatano. But how many people are trying to complete a 1956 Dodgers set? I get that completely. I have a '69 Mets ball that is only missing a Buddy Harrelson signature

Yeah. This thread has its roots in my search for a picture of Gosger on the '69 Mets. The photo I posted is all I could find, but the patch threw me off. So if there are no '69 Mets pics of Gosger, maybe some seller decided to fake one.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I'm glad that number was disconnected. Good work, dwg! You're Fred and Daphne all in one.

[dgwphotography]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I'm glad that number was disconnected. Good work, dwg! You're Fred and Daphne all in one.

Max is smarter than Scooby, though...

To be honest, I heavily used a certain MBTN site, and as soon as I saw pictures of Dave Marshall, it just clicked.

[Centerfield]

dgwphotography wrote: Why fake a Jim Gosger? I'm thinking that he signed it at a card show without looking at it too closely.

This is funny. Of all things, you'd think you'd be able to recognize yourself.

That's really mailing it in.

[Zvon]

I will confirm that is most certainly Dave Marshall.
The guy in the dugout is either Agee or Clendenon. The white glove and posture makes it look like it could be either. The glove/wristband set up leans towards Clendenon as opposed to Agee.

[fimg=300]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-xODt2jXmGaQ/UrC_tnS2kWI/AAAAAAAAKGY/MhG4CnwvXQw/s640-Ic42/71tTommieAgeeZ14.png[/fimg][fimg=300]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-MDb4oOdF524/UrCzMN7kyII/AAAAAAAAKE4/ORF-49Uo6Rk/s549-Ic42/71tDonnClendenon.png[/fimg]

[stevejrogers]

I think we have our answer. Next question: Why does that card say "SAN DIEGO PADRES"?

Because it a DIY digital card, using Marshall's real 1973 card and a Man From Topps photo.

As you can see, Topps went with Marshall looking upwards so the cap logo wasn't visable as they doctored up the Met blues for Padre mustard yellow, yet kept pinstripes that the Padres wouldn't incorporate on uniforms for more than a decade!

[stevejrogers]

Why fake a Jim Gosger? I'm thinking that he signed it at a card show without looking at it too closely.

It's probably the "'69 Champs" that is the reason for the possible forgery. Get someone thinking they have an item from a member of one of the most beloved teams in the sport's history.

Let's do a little Gosger autos comparison:

1967 Topps, granted Topps makes a facsimile of a signed contract signature for facsimile autographs on cards, even to this day with the Bowman line (and why you'll get formal names of players listed or different from how they'd sign it for you), but here is the facsimile of a Gosger signature



Note, besides the 1991 SGA set, there are no cards of Gosger as a Met in the TradingCardDB.com I'd go back to the archives of FaFiF to see what Jace has representing Gosger in The Holy Books.

eBay auction supposedly PSA/DNA authenticated Gosger sig on an index card:



Another Met photo, but without the "'69 Champs" inscription:



LOL! Same photo, different auction, but a few dollars more despite not having an inscription:



Steiner Sports has a Gosger ball, with the 1969 inscription:



And here is one with Gosger inscribing as being on both the 1969 and 1973 teams.

[Zvon]

I think we have our answer. Next question: Why does that card say "SAN DIEGO PADRES"? Because it a DIY digital card, using Marshall's real 1973 card and a Man From Topps photo. As you can see, Topps went with Marshall looking upwards so the cap logo wasn't visable as they doctored up the Met blues for Padre mustard yellow, yet kept pinstripes that the Padres wouldn't incorporate on uniforms for more than a decade!

And that's why I made the card. His regular card was hideous. Marshall deserves a few more too if I ever get around to it. Cause him and Boswell had the koolest sideburns ever.

Putting the NOW WITH PADRES on the scoreboard was a joke, and I wrote that I paid the scoreboard guy to do that so I didn't have to do what we see here on his '72 mfc alternate card.

[fimg=300]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-oYmtiTsYQus/UzEXKwrwoAI/AAAAAAAAN2k/SN_Z3Y6sL80/s605-Ic42/73ZPCMarshall-z14.png[/fimg]___[fimg=300]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-lgalA0IGoxU/UyZqIwoBYTI/AAAAAAAANik/b0ExWKQzbzM/s607-Ic42/73OPCMarshall-z14.png[/fimg]

[stevejrogers]

Alright, poking around with a Google image search, lands the photo here at a blogspot blog called CenterFieldMaz with a Gosger bio of sorts:

http://www.centerfieldmaz.com/2012/11/former-member-of-two-mets-pennant.html

He does have an image of a Gosger signed card (oddly its with a fascimile):



Amusingly this DIY digital 1974 card pops up with Gosger's name on it!

[stevejrogers]

Trying to figure out the origin of how Gosger is connected to the photo finds it listed as part of this Goldin Auctions lot of a jacket worn by Gosger during the 1969 season:

https://goldinauctions.com/lot-5537.aspx

For whatever reason, I can't get too much hits on "Dave Marshall Mets" in terms of an in action photo like that on Google image search for comparison, or if an original was posted to figure out why that would be considered a photo of Jim Gosger during the 1969 season.

[batmagadanleadoff]

I think we have our answer. Next question: Why does that card say "SAN DIEGO PADRES"? Because it a DIY digital card, using Marshall's real 1973 card and a Man From Topps photo. As you can see, Topps went with Marshall looking upwards so the cap logo wasn't visable as they doctored up the Met blues for Padre mustard yellow, yet kept pinstripes that the Padres wouldn't incorporate on uniforms for more than a decade! And that's why I made the card. His regular card was hideous. Marshall deserves a few more too if I ever get around to it. Cause him and Boswell had the koolest sideburns ever. Putting the NOW WITH PADRES on the scoreboard was a joke, and I wrote that I paid the scoreboard guy to do that so I didn't have to do what we see here on his '72 mfc alternate card. [fimg=300]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-oYmtiTsYQus/UzEXKwrwoAI/AAAAAAAAN2k/SN_Z3Y6sL80/s605-Ic42/73ZPCMarshall-z14.png[/fimg]___[fimg=300]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-lgalA0IGoxU/UyZqIwoBYTI/AAAAAAAANik/b0ExWKQzbzM/s607-Ic42/73OPCMarshall-z14.png[/fimg]

I think that the best explanation for why that DIY has Padres on it is because it was done in the style of O-Pee-Chee cards.

[batmagadanleadoff]

[fimg=333:20rq6zmd]http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/O4oAAOxyLN9SgXET/s-l500.jpg[/fimg:20rq6zmd]

I came across this Gosger photo in my photo search. This one's very likely from 1969. I say so because of the way the cap creases on the right side of the photo. I think that caps from Gosger's 70's stints with the Mets didn't do that. But I wasn't interested in this photo because it's too much of a head shot and I was looking for more body.

I have this vague memory of Dave Marshall losing his glove. Hank Aaron hit an opposite field HR against the Mets at Shea. Marshall went to the wall and leaped as high as he could, trying to rob Aaron of a would-be HR. Not only did Marshall not make the play, but in the process, he lost his glove, which landed on the other side of the wall. The game had to be stopped so that Marshall could be reunited with his glove.

Does anybody remember this? Or am I imagining this?

[Zvon]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: I think that the best explanation for why that DIY has Padres on it is because it was done in the style of O-Pee-Chee cards.

I thought Topps itself did that a few times in the early 70's but I must be mistaken. Running a search the only notation on a Topps card I see deals with the passing of Gil Hodges.

batmagadanleadoff wrote: I came across this Gosger photo in my photo search. This one's very likely from 1969. I say so because of the way the cap creases on the right side of the photo. I think that caps from Gosger's 70's stints with the Mets didn't do that. But I wasn't interested in this photo because it's too much of a head shot and I was looking for more body. I have this vague memory of Dave Marshall losing his glove. Hank Aaron hit an opposite field HR against the Mets at Shea. Marshall went to the wall and leaped as high as he could, trying to rob Aaron of a would-be HR. Not only did Marshall not make the play, but in the process, he lost his glove, which landed on the other side of the wall. The game had to be stopped so that Marshall could be reunited with his glove. Does anybody remember this? Or am I imagining this?

I can't say for sure but I may have seen this. I know practically every time I saw the Mets play the Braves in those days Aaron hit a homer.

Gosger's hat looks like that because he (like many other players) would fold the hat backwards, folding the brim forward and under the bridge of the cap, wrapping it around the hat. Then they'd stick the folded hat in their back pocket.

[Zvon]

Further inspection indicates that the notation was only on Gil's '72 O-Pee-Chee card and not his Topps. I guess I'm conflating Topps and O-Pee-Chee.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Zvon wrote: Gosger's hat looks like that because he (like many other players) would fold the hat backwards, folding the brim forward and under the bridge of the cap, wrapping it around the hat. Then they'd stick the folded hat in their back pocket.

Interesting. I never thought of that. I've seen plenty of pictures of Mets caps folding in that fashion over the years. But in my mind, all of those pics are from the flannel uniform era. I figured that the 70's caps are different and don't leave those fold marks.