Jose Jose No Jose!

[soupcan]

I'm not leaving it in the shadows but at the same time, I'm not condemning him for it for the rest of his life. I am doing this because of the history that I personally have with him (in my mind of course).

What he did - if he did what we all say he did and he says he did - was horrible and heinous, but again is it something that he cannot ever be forgiven for? Does he not get a second chance to prove he can be a better man?

I'm choosing to believe that he is regretful, that he is attempting to atone for his actions and that he wants to be the guy we always thought he was.

Honestly though - through these past three games he's played for the Mets, it has been harder than I thought to root for him unconditionally.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

What kind of loaded question is that?

It begins by assuming a point of view ("so much love for Jose Reyes") that nobody here has expressed, and then assumes wife-beating and general douchebaggery are apples and apples, AND that the standard of whether one likes a person or not is based on whether they've abused another person?

But just to be clear I believe what Reyes did was reprehensible, AND I don't like Harvey because I think he's a dumb jock and a probably pain in the ass to work with.

[Guest d'Kong76]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: #ImWithGrimm

#MeToo

[Edgy MD]

I don't root for the laundry, I feel confident in saying. Which is good, because some of the laundry has been ugly.

I root for Jeff Wilpon. Love that guy.

[seawolf17]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I think religion instructs us to hate the sin, but love the sinner. (Not that I'm the least bit religious, but whatever. It's a good sentiment anyway.) I'll never have the affection for Jose that I once had, but I hope he plays well for the Mets, and more importantly, I hope he never does anything violent to his wife, or anyone else, ever again. It will be apparent to everyone whether or not he plays well, but unless some other incident becomes public, we'll never know the answer to the second part. He appears contrite. I hope he is. He's saying the right things. I hope he means them. He's in counseling. I hope it's working. But we'll likely never know for sure. This is not only an aspect of rooting for a sports team, but of dealing with human beings in general.

This, all of this.

[Guest themetfairy]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: What kind of loaded question is that? It begins by assuming a point of view ("so much love for Jose Reyes") that nobody here has expressed, and then assumes wife-beating and general douchebaggery are apples and apples, AND that the standard of whether one likes a person or not is based on whether they've abused another person? But just to be clear I believe what Reyes did was reprehensible, AND I don't like Harvey because I think he's a dumb jock and a probably pain in the ass to work with.

It's not that you have to like either. Nor are they apples and apples. But if we're allotting Shaefer points to behavior, abuse has to be worth more than simple jerkery.

It seems to me that Harvey gets a disproportionate amount of hate around here for attitude than Reyes is getting for his actions.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I think Reyes may be benefiting somewhat from nostalgia. If he had been here all along, would the fan reaction be different? It's hard to say.

[Guest d'Kong76]

There's probably some ex-Met-star goodwill going on with some. Here there
seems to be two camps of a potential three. The third being the standing ovation
crowd which we've seen none of.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Certainly the Mets would know better than most clubs what they were getting from Reyes, character-wise. Of course the reason he's here is the low, low price.

[TransMonk]

For me, personally (and I don't think or expect anyone should feel this way), I'm willing to give Reyes the second chance.

What he did was horrible and I could never think in reacting to any situation in that manner myself. He has to own that reaction and understand that he can never take it back. However, I do believe that he needs to have some path forward. He has served his MLB suspension, the criminal charges were dropped (and the reason for that can be debated, but the true facts on why are unknown to anyone but Reyes' family and the PD working the case) and he is still with his wife and family today. I can only take him at his word that he is sorry for what he did and that he is continually working on being a better husband, father and man.

As far as his baseball career is concerned, I believe that the Mets were the best place he could have landed. I think the criticism that has been laid at his feet by the NY media and fans is good for him in order to own up to what he did. However, being back in a familiar place where he did some (most) of his best professional work hopefully motivates him to be that better man. I'm hoping that being in a pennant race where he can contribute gives a better purpose to his life so that he can share in those successes with his family.

I said above that I was never a big fan of Reyes during his first tour. I appreciated the excitement he brought to the team and the stats on the back of his card, but as a player, he always came off as a "hot dog" and someone whose attitude toward playing presented itself as just a bit better than the player he actually was. His last at-bat as a Met in 2011 is a great example of this. I guess I'm hoping that this whole saga has humbled him a bit. I'm hoping he understands that he needs to prove himself (something I'm not sure he needed to do before). So from that perspective, I am rooting for him. I'm hoping that success in his professional career can signal growth and change for him as a person.

YMMV

[Guest themetfairy]

You're a terrible person TM!

J/K While my mileage varies, I appreciate how you arrived at your conclusion.

[Edgy MD]

The thing is, if this is really about abused spouses, there's a strong argument against the notion that folks who have an abuse history should be treated as beyond the pale as far as employees. It creates a huge conflict for a victim spouse in an abuse situation with regard to seeking help.
[list:35uz2mbu][*:35uz2mbu]It can cut the victim off from financial support and benefits.[/*:m:35uz2mbu]
[*:35uz2mbu]It can cut the victim's children off from support and benefits.[/*:m:35uz2mbu]
[*:35uz2mbu]It consigns the perpetrator to the home for many more hours of the week, making the victim-spouse that much more vulnerable.[/*:m:35uz2mbu]
[*:35uz2mbu]It deepens the perpetrator's animus toward the spouse and society.[/*:m:35uz2mbu]
[*:35uz2mbu]It separates the perpetrator from counseling provided through employee assistance programs.[/*:m:35uz2mbu]
[*:35uz2mbu]It lifts from perpetrator the challenge of having to put on his or her best face eight hours a day, which is meaningful practice in getting one's act together domestically.[/*:m:35uz2mbu][/list:u:35uz2mbu]
All that said, even if there's a strong argument against making such persons unemployable, it gets weighed against whether you want to be one doing the employing — to be associated with whatever the person is, whether that makes you an enabler, or feel like one, or be seen as one, whether you can be seen as symbolically endorsing the person's past (and possibly future) behavior to the outside world.

Whatever the answer is, if you buy it, you own it. So the Mets, going in with their eyes open, owe it to themselves and everybody to do what they can to bring out José's best going forward, because it will be nearly impossible to distance or absolve themselves from any future assaults.

And I hope they discussed his employment with some of the players, because they have wives too. And who he is or is not touches the guys who play and dress with him and have his back.

[batmagadanleadoff]

I'll tell you something else: The Mets re-signing of Reyes is another sign that this is more Jeff's and less Fred's team. eff Wilpon would have no part of this version of Jose Reyes.

Jeff ain't taking the side of the Leigh Castergines, I'll tell you that.

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

He's hit better than I expected so far.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Made a last-minute move to score tickets for today, and there was serious chanting action going on prior to the home runs. And plenty of folks in Reyes jerseys... with what seemed like a lot more young women in the gear than men.

[Edgy MD]

Funny that he's swinging a hot bat, and our offense has gone south.

I guess that happens when he arrives and Céspedes promptly gets hurt, and he also displaces Flores in the lineup.

Reyes has taken over Granderson's solo-homerun-specialist role.

[TransMonk]

I've realized two somewhat conflicting things over the past two weeks:

1. I forgot how exciting Reyes is to watch. It helps that he is definitely a catalyst at the top of the lineup and that he has been putting up better numbers than most expected, but the effect of a productive lead off hitter is very noticeable.

2. I do feel slightly more guilty than I thought I would in rooting for him. I stand by all that I posted in this thread last month, but I'd be lying if I said my appreciation for what he provides to the team I love is not soured by his personal conduct last year.

I read this article in the Times over the weekend. The situation is not apples-to-apples, but I think it is a decent idea (even if it comes from a Cubs fan). While there is still no excuse for what Jose did, finding a way to turn his production into a positive step for the future makes sense to me as BOTH a Mets fan and an opponent of domestic violence.

I pledge to donate $10 for each run Reyes scores this season to Safe Horizon. I will do the same in 2017 if his option is picked up.

[Guest themetfairy]

I just can't get into rooting for him.

But that's a cool idea from that Cubs fan!

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

I'm conflicted by a lot of this. Domestic violence is a terrible thing. Drinking and driving is a terrible thing. Assault of anyone is a terrible thing.

We're celebrating the 1986 Mets all season and four members of that team were arrested for fighting with police at a bar after a night of heavy drinking. We don't have any problems cheering them. Darryl Strawberry was arrested multiple times. Dwight Gooden has been arrested multiple times, including for assaulting his girlfriend. They were cheered at the reunion. They are both inducted in our team Hall of Fame, an honor bestowed, I believe, after their arrests.

Reyes is accused of doing a terrible thing. We don't know for sure, but he appears to have reconciled with the alleged victim. He has made public apologies. The team has said he is getting counseling. We have no evidence of other behavior like this from him.

After the collision at the plate the other night, I saw someone posted something like "Now he knows what it's like to be slammed to the ground" or something along those lines. Wow.

My heart says that people make mistakes, even bad mistakes. And when they seek sincere forgiveness and there doesn't appear to be a pattern of continuing mistakes, I'm inclined to extend a hand.

I wasn't in favor of bringing him back, but I was wrong about that.

I don't have a problem cheering for him as long as this appears to be something that is not a continuing issue. Where am I wrong?

[seawolf17]

Mets Guy in Michigan wrote: I don't have a problem cheering for him as long as this appears to be something that is not a continuing issue. Where am I wrong?

This. I'm honestly enjoying having him back, as conflicted as I am.