Managing to Five Consecutive Losing Seasons

[Gwreck]

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/55550/on-the-hot-seat-terry-collins-bud-black

Excluding Connie Mack (who owned his team), there have been only five mangers who have managed a team to five consecutive losing seasons.

This year will be Terry's fifth. (Same situation in San Diego for Bud Black).

(I do disagree with Schoenfield's claim that Collins' "job will be in jeopardy" if the team gets off to a slow start. He's not getting fired mid-season. but I doubt he returns without a winning record).

Edited March 9, 2015 by Guest

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

This is the year Terry's streak ends, but also, his last year as Mets manager anyway.

He'll be one of those guys who will find it hard to retire.

[Edgy MD]

A lot of talk about "what it will take to get Terry fired" in the blogosphere this last week.

[Gwreck]

One would think it have to be something egregious/felonious and non-baseball related

I don't see any baseball scenarios in which Terry doesn't finish the season as manager. Afterwards, it breaks down pretty simply:

Team gets worse/doesn't improve: They just don't renew his contract.
Team gets only slightly better: ??
Team gets significantly better/makes playoffs: Terry gets new contract if he wants.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I don't know. I imagine that if the Mets start out 3 and 18, or something awful like that, Terry would be fired.

I think, however, that the Mets will play well enough for him to keep his job the whole season.

[Vic Sage]

of all the problems this franchise has, Terry Collins is among the least of them.

[Lefty Specialist]

I get the feeling that win, lose, or 81-81, this is Terry's last season. But short of a calamitous start, he'll keep his job the whole year.

[HahnSolo]

The way most of the organization is speaking this spring about how this is the year the team makes the leap, Terry included, I'd have to think a 15-28 start or something similar would have Terry feeling the heat.

But I don't expect a 15-28 start, and I don't expect Terry to go anywhere.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I think I'd fire Terry if they started 15-25.

[TransMonk]

I believe Terry will be here all year, but unless the squad makes the playoffs, 2015 will be his last season with the Mets.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Take on the tougher scenarios. What if the Mets go 84-78 but don't make the playoffs? Then whaddya think would happen to Terry?

[Benjamin Grimm]

I think it would depend on why they won 84 games instead of 90. If it's key late-season injuries, then he might come back. If it's an 8 and 18 September, then he's probably gone.

[Ceetar]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Take on the tougher scenarios. What if the Mets go 84-78 but don't make the playoffs? Then whaddya think would happen to Terry?

How do they finish? 12-12 with half the team injured? 16-4 and get beat out?

A lot depends. Do they finish 8-12 but it's because Wilmer Flores goes 3/45 and the bullpen implodes?

Or do they finish 8-12 and [crossout]Argenis Reyes[/crossout] Wilmer Flores goes 3/45 and Tejada is 80/240 on the season with 3 HR and a .360 OBP? but only gets 4 AB the final week?

[batmagadanleadoff]

I agree with both of you (Ceets and Grimm). Only after I posted, did I really think my post through. And then, I concluded that my post was an over-simplification of a possible scenario. I suppose anything could plausibly happen, even under one specific finish. For example, if key players were to turn on Terry, he might be gone even with a playoff spot. David Wright, by himself, probably has enough clout to get Terry axed. And though Wright seems like a nice enough guy that he wouldn't do something like that, you never know. Derek Jeter is supposed to be half angel (and not the California of Anaheim type) and half Greek God, beyond reproach. I don't see that. I think Jeter's extremely manipulative in his own way. The Mets could win 84 games, but if the higher ups decide that they oughtta have won 88 and blame Terry for the shortfall, then he's probably a goner. So who knows?

I'd answer the original thread question by simply saying that I don't think Terry's automatically gone after this season, even if the Mets don't make the playoffs.

[Ceetar]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: He'll be one of those guys who will find it hard to retire.

I think so too. I could see the Mets doing very well and him transitioning back to a minor league coordinator type role or something else altogether.

That may in fact be the best solution, I'd hate for the Mets to feel like they need to replace him immediately and not do the due diligence in finding an actual quality replacement rather than just falling to Wally, who I think would be worse.

[Edgy MD]

Other things that could get him fired:

• Openly drinking, in the dugout, during games.
  
  
  
• Deliberately setting fire to the clubhouse.
  
  
  
• Overturning the post-game spread. Every day. Win or lose. In the opponent's clubhouse too.
  
  
  
• Carrying a Fred Must GO! banner in the Banner Day Parade.
  
  
  
• Working on Flores' footwork by shooting live ammo at his feet.
  
  
  
• Letting his game drag on in the CPF Scrabble Classic.

[Ceetar]

Edgy MD wrote: [*]Overturning the post-game spread. Every day. Win or lose. In the opponent's clubhouse too.

I dunno, this one sounds fun. I bet the beat writers love it. Start tweeting play by play and slo-mo video of it.

[Zvon]

Vic Sage wrote: of all the problems this franchise has, Terry Collins is among the least of them.

Basically this.


ADD to list:

� really screw the pootch, as in literally rape a dog right there in the dugout.

[Frayed Knot]

Part of Terry's 'safeness' (or not) should he endure a slow start occur might depend on whether or not mgmt has a replacement in mind that they view as something other than an interim caretaker following a change just for change sake.
There's no one on the current coaching staff who screams 'Next man up' and -- (just a guess here) to the eternal dismay of a certain segment of the NYM fan base -- I don't believe that Sandy et al are all aboard the Backman train.

[TransMonk]

Frayed Knot wrote: Part of Terry's 'safeness' (or not) should he endure a slow start occur might depend on whether or not mgmt has a replacement in mind that they view as something other than an interim caretaker following a change just for change sake.

Mostly this. My view is that management has always seen Terry as a placeholder...though I'm not sure if they are waiting for a replacement so much as simply a better team. I still think it's a safe bet he'll end the season with the Mets barring a complete disaster.

[G-Fafif]

Don't worry. As if on cue, Fred's got this.

Wilpon also vowed to be around much more this spring training. �He expects it to be a much better team. There�s no doubt about that,� Collins said. �He told me two weeks ago, �Look, I�m going to be here a lot -- a lot,� where, in the past, he�d come in and he�d be gone for a week or 10 days.�

[ashie62]

Terry seems long in the tooth for this job beyond this season.

[Guest d'Kong76]

Maybe if they're doing well by the all-star break he can get
that tooth shortening thing they'be been working on in Japan!

[Guest d'Kong76]

Wilpon also vowed to be around much more this spring training.

Oh joy! I hope Jeffie joins him very soon too!

[G-Fafif]

The more the owners hang around, the more the manager is likely to grind his teeth to a fine powder.

[Guest d'Kong76]

Nicely played!

[MFS62]

Wilpon also vowed to be around much more this spring training. ... �He told me two weeks ago, �Look, I�m going to be here a lot -- a lot,�

Terrific. That's like telling the army unit that General Custer will be there.

Later