Let's talk about The Grandy Man

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

metirish wrote: 2) he's a proven performer in New York. Ugh .....useless "stat"

There are photographs and ticket stubs and scorecards, man.

Of course, he's also a proven bed-shitter in New York.

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I'd be okay with a fourth year for Granderson. It's not ideal, but it seems that you have to take a risk on the back end of a contract to land some free agents. Sometimes it kills you, but sometimes it doesn't. You just have to hope that the early years of the contract are good enough to offset the last year or so.

But, see, that makes sense if you're not just hoping but planning to contend over the course of those first two years. Whatever Granderson contributes-- assuming it's not a highly-degraded version of what he's contributed over the last 2-3 years-- probably won't be the difference between a playoff spot and no playoff spot. And that makes eating that smelly, smelly back end so much more repugnant.

[ashie62]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: metirish wrote: 2) he's a proven performer in New York. Ugh .....useless "stat" There are photographs and ticket stubs and scorecards, man. Of course, he's also a proven bed-shitter in New York. Benjamin Grimm wrote: I'd be okay with a fourth year for Granderson. It's not ideal, but it seems that you have to take a risk on the back end of a contract to land some free agents. Sometimes it kills you, but sometimes it doesn't. You just have to hope that the early years of the contract are good enough to offset the last year or so. But, see, that makes sense if you're not just hoping but planning to contend over the course of those first two years. Whatever Granderson contributes-- assuming it's not a highly-degraded version of what he's contributed over the last 2-3 years-- probably won't be the difference between a playoff spot and no playoff spot. And that makes eating that smelly, smelly back end so much more repugnant.

The dance chairs are filling..I suggest you get with the Granderson vibe..ok?? lol

[Edgy MD]

Sooner or later, they gots to lay their money down, though, right? Or else you won't invest because the chances you have suggest team isn't worth investing in. Which it isn't, because you won't invest.

So we return to the if-not-him-then-who? territory. But, well, impact free agents all tend to be old-but-expensive. High performance but high mileage. Cano's the young one out there, and he's all about many many years.

One might assume there's a trade or two on the table too. So if Granderson is the big fish they reel in, it could well be part of some broader array of (hopefully improvement-generating) moves.

A big key to looking at the fourth year is that his injuries have not been of the breakdown-from-continual-usage variety.

On the other hand, the dance chair thing doesn't move me.

[Ceetar]

I'm not necessarily petrified of Granderson's age 36th season if we did give him that 4th year.

[ashie62]

Granderson sid he enjoyed the salmon at lunch...

[ashie62]

Edgy MD wrote: Sooner or later, they gots to lay their money down, though, right? Or else you won't invest because the chances you have suggest team isn't worth investing in. Which it isn't, because you won't invest. So we return to the if-not-him-then-who? territory. But, well, impact free agents all tend to be old-but-expensive. High performance but high mileage. Cano's the young one out there, and he's all about many many years. One might assume there's a trade or two on the table too. So if Granderson is the big fish they reel in, it could well be part of some broader array of (hopefully improvement-generating) moves. A big key to looking at the fourth year is that his injuries have not been of the breakdown-from-continual-usage variety. On the other hand, the dance chair thing doesn't move me.

If Granderson comes aboard we can likely kiss Muffy goodbye...

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Huh? What? Huh?

[ashie62]

Grandy in LF Lagares CF Young RF.....Young Jr. to 2b Muffy traded?

[Frayed Knot]

If Murphy gets dealt (and he very well might) it'll be because he's the better trade bait and will bring back something to fill another hole; I don't see him being dealt simply to hand EY Jr. the 2B job.
For all of Murph's faults, he out-hit Young by 30 points and had a greater pct of hits go for XBs.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Like the Mets have anyone better than Granderson that can play the outfield. And if he should suck three years from now, what with him being 31 and all right now, maybe three years from now, the Mets can start acting like the big boy franchise from New York City that they're supposed to be, and just dump Granderson for the next big thing. They surely have no problem charging their fans about the highest ticket prices in the National League.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

I'll say this: he appears to be a real standup guy, charming and generous and thoughtful (he was one of the first players to regularly write/maintain a blog), and it would be a pleasure to be wrong about the presumed Bayishness of a multiyear/big AAV deal with him, should he come our way on one.

[nymr83]

You know who was a better, and younger, hitter than Granderson in the 3 years before the Mets overpaid him? Jason Bay. and that is what I think this contract would look like by year 3.

[Frayed Knot]

So because Bay failed we're to assume that all future FA signings will follow the same path, or is there something in particular here that connects these two specific players?

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Yeah, I'm sure Grandy on some level could disappoint but let's see some evidence he's about to, beyond the coincidence of having similar profile to Bay.

[Frayed Knot]

The latest (acc to Martino at the Snooze):

- talks between NYM & Granderson have been "heating up" since late Tuesday and that there is "increasing optimism" that he will wind up in Queens

- that any deal would almost certainly have to include a 4th year at minimum as, first the Byrd contract (2 x $8), and then the Ellsbury one (7 x ~$22) have raised the stakes

- the outside competition seems to be coming from Seattle & Boston

[MFS62]

I see Boston being competitive in this now that they don't have to pay Ellsbury and need a center fielder.

Later

[Frayed Knot]

Boston has prospect Jackie Bradley Jr. tagged as their potential CF of the future so if they're signing Granderson is likely to be as a corner OF to pair with Victorino. This past season the opposite corner was handled by a combination of Daniel Nava, Jonny Gomes, & Mike Carp

Bradley was up for a brief time in 2013 to not-much success, but he's a 23 y/o former 1st round draft pick who's a glove and a speedster with little left to prove in the minors so I believe the job is pretty much his to lose going into ST.

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

I confess my only fear is this nagging wonder why the MFYs, apparently with more money than they can spend intelligently, didn't try to re-sign him.

[metsmarathon]

because they liked ellsbury better perhaps...?

[Edgy MD]

Yeah, I mean, the obvious extension of that logic is to fall into "We shouldn't do this because if it was such a good idea, somebody else would have done it, so let's not do it or anything else."

It's not the only kind of defeatist logic going around, but it's maybe the most pernicious.

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

Edgy MD wrote: Yeah, I mean, the obvious extension of that logic is to fall into "We shouldn't do this because if it was such a good idea, somebody else would have done it, so let's not do it or anything else." It's not the only kind of defeatist logic going around, but it's maybe the most pernicious.

I never said we shouldn't do it. I think he's an outstanding player and an obvious upgrade from anyone in our outfield -- and probably any hitter on the roster not named Wright. A super-nice guy when I interviewed him.

I'm just wondering why the MFYs are willing to let him walk when they could obviously afford him. Don't they have people like Ichiro in their outfield?

[metsmarathon]

they have ichiro and (a practically free) soriano in addition to the undervalued brett gardner.

bringing back granderson doesn't improve the team and weaken the sawx in one fell swoop. adding ellsbury does.

[Edgy MD]

I know you didn't say it. I'm extending the reasoning.

The reason they didn't make the move and the Mets might is because different teams have different needs, different standards and philosophies, and different assessments of different talent. And that's good. But teams have to believe in the judgment they have.

People make trades with the Yankees often enough. They can't stop and say, "Wait a minute. You're the Yankees. Why would you be offering me this player if he was any good? Why would I give up this other player if the MF Yankees want him?"

You simply got to believe that you're the smartest one in the room, even if recent or ancient history doesn't support that. Or at least believe you're the one who sees the angles on this particular issue that everybody else is missing.

[dinosaur jesus]

The smartest person in the room doesn't sign Granderson.

[Ceetar]

metsmarathon wrote: they have ichiro and (a practically free) soriano in addition to the undervalued brett gardner. bringing back granderson doesn't improve the team and weaken the sawx in one fell swoop. adding ellsbury does.

Yeah, but Granderson is the best OF of those, so really they're weaker. Maybe the Sox are hurt by losing Ellsbury, or maybe it's something they already planned for.

Maybe the Yankees are just banking on saving A-Rod's $20+ million. Maybe they're confident they can resign Cano, see that as the harder to lock down position, and didn't want to just re-sign everyone.

[metsmarathon]

yes, of course, the yankees would be a better tem if they re-signed granderson and cano, and also signed ellsbury.

the issue is that the yankees thought themselves a better team signing ellsbury instead of re-signing granderson, and they are likely right, in th short term at least, and especially since yankee finances aren't remotely liek real-team finances (not that the mets have real-team finances)

i also think that in signing ellsbury, they are in a better position to tell cano's agents that their remaining money isn't limitless, so dont go asking for 300 mil that you're never going to get. getting ellsbury allows them to play harder with cano, whereas signing cano early and to an (even more) ridiculous contract could preclude them from getting in on ellsbury and weakening boston.

and believe me, weakening boston (both in the baseball sense and the PR sense) is a huge factor here.

[Ceetar]

metsmarathon wrote: and believe me, weakening boston (both in the baseball sense and the PR sense) is a huge factor here.

It's fair, but what if it means losing Cano? For a team bleeding fans, does losing your best player and signing a hated enemy bring those people back (well yeah, if they win I guess)

[Edgy MD]

dinosaur jesus wrote: The smartest person in the room doesn't sign Granderson.

What about for the right price at the right time in the right market? I mean, who did he kill?

There's always a time to say yes. There's always a time to say no.

I don't think Granderson is a hated enemy.

[Frayed Knot]

Boston made, at best, a weak effort to retain Ellsbury (see Reyes & Mets) and were pretty much resigned to seeing him go (see: Bradley, Jackie). That he wound up w/the Yanx certainly wasn't part of their plan but they don't really have any control over that except to over-pay him themselves which they clearly didn't want to do.
IOW, the Yanx' signing of Ellsbury didn't really subtract him from Boston as he was being subtracted one way or another. Plus the whole idea of signing someone so as to weaken your opponent is, in general, a really bad idea that harkens back to the days when George would go on the warpath.

[Benjamin Grimm]

And even if we decide to concede that the Yankees are the smartest team in the universe, and that Ellsbury is better than Granderson, well... Ellsbury is off the table. It's too late for the Mets to sign him. That doesn't mean that Granderson isn't the second best available outfielder in the universe.