2013 HOF In Balloting Thread

[Edgy MD]

Under reported, but it's not like other professional sports leagues didn't practice segreagation and de facto bans on African Americans. Baseball's black eye in this regard was little different from society's.

Perhaps the same can in some sense be said of 'roids.

[Gwreck]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: But I suppose my issue with Clemens and Bonds and McGwire is the disgrace they brought to the game, more than the cheating.

Not to be unnecessarily argumentative but what's the difference?

[Benjamin Grimm]

I'd say that Clemens, for example, was defiant when caught, and started suing people and acting like an asshole. If he had been contrite from the beginning, and apologized, then this would have been a much quieter story, and it would have faded quicker. Instead, he brought a great deal of negative attention to the sport and was part of a big ugly mess.

Personally, I don't mind at all when baseball gets a black eye. Since 1994, I get a perverse enjoyment out of it. But as I've said before, it's not the "Hall of Great Statistics", it's the "Hall of Fame" and there is a morality clause. Sure, they're part of the permanent record and I would be against having Bonds' home runs, for example, erased. And Barry's bat and uniform and stuff should definitely be displayed in the museum. But don't give him a plaque.

[Valadius]

My one consolation on Piazza is that Yogi Berra only received 67% of the vote his first year, and all the writers loved him.

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

SteveJRogers wrote: 2pm on the MLB Network.

And on MLive, too! (I'll stop promoting our live chat now.)

[stevejrogers]

Latest exit poll projection

Well, on the bright side I can make my cousin's wedding without annoying him all weekend that I'd (and he as well since he is a big Met/Piazza fan), rather be in Cooperstown that weekend.

Also it will be less annoying asking either of my bosses at the sites in my signature if I can get press credentials for all HOF weekend events after a year and change under my belt at those sites!

=

[metirish]

Exit polling

http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/newsstand/discussion/the_2012_hall_of_fame_ballot_collecting_gizmo


70.1 - Biggio
60.3 - Piazza
59.8 - Raines
59.3 - J. Morris
59.3 - Bagwell
45.4 - Bonds
44.3 - Clemens

[Ceetar]

metirish wrote: Exit polling http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/newsstand/discussion/the_2012_hall_of_fame_ballot_collecting_gizmo 70.1 - Biggio 60.3 - Piazza 59.8 - Raines 59.3 - J. Morris 59.3 - Bagwell 45.4 - Bonds 44.3 - Clemens

Woah, someone voted for Bonds and not Clemens? how's that work?

[metirish]

No one voted in...what a load of bolloxs

[Gwreck]

Nobody gets in this year.

[metirish]

Piazza 57.8%

[Farmer Ted]

Boo!!!!!!!!

[Gwreck]

Ceetar wrote: Woah, someone voted for Bonds and not Clemens? how's that work?

Clemens got 8 more votes than Bonds. Of course that makes no sense.

[metirish]

Clemens - 37.6%
Bonds - 36.2%

[Edgy MD]

I can kind of buy going in for Bonds and not Clemens, depending on how you buy the narrative about when they started dosing and how much value they derived.

I can also kind of buy going in for Clemens and not Bonds, depending on how you buy the theory of white racial superiority.

[Gwreck]

Craig Biggio 68.2%
Jack Morris 67.7%
Jeff Bagwell 59.6%
Mike Piazza 57.8%
Tim Raines 52.2%
Lee Smith 47.8%
Curt Schilling 38.8%
Roger Clemens 37.6%
Barry Bonds 36.2%
Edgar Martinez 35.9%

[Edgy MD]

A story that'll get overlooked: Kenny Lofton is one and done.

[Gwreck]

Alan Trammell 33.6%
Larry Walker 21.6%
Fred McGriff 20.7%
Dale Murphy 18.6%
Mark McGwire 16.9%
Don Mattingly 13.2%
Sammy Sosa 12.5%
Rafael Palmeiro 8.8%
Bernie Williams 3.3%
Kenny Lofton 3.2%
Sandy Alomar Jr. 2.8%
Julio Franco 1.1%
David Wells 0.9%
Steve Finley 0.7%
Shawn Green 0.4%
Aaron Sele 0.2%

[metsmarathon]

lofton being one and done sure does cut down on some future hof-worthiness debates, doesn't it?

[Edgy MD]

Mr. Aaron-Sele-Voter, step right up.

[metirish]

Edgy MD wrote: Mr. Aaron-Sele-Voter, step right up.

looks like he voted for Green too.

[seawolf17]

Edgy MD wrote: A story that'll get overlooked: Kenny Lofton is one and done.

More importantly, so is Bernie Williams.

And there are a lot of outfielders who are more hallworthy than Lofton. Hell, maybe even Bernie Williams, and he isn't hallworthy either.

[Valadius]

What a fucking joke.

Kenny Lofton joins the Lou Whitaker club of one-and-doners that should have stuck around longer. At least Bernie Williams drops off the ballot.

[Edgy MD]

seawolf17 wrote: And there are a lot of outfielders who are more hallworthy than Lofton. Hell, maybe even Bernie Williams....

BOOOOOOOO!!!!!! Get off the stage!!!!!!!

[Guest Mets � Willets Point]

The upside of Mike Piazza not getting into the HOF is that the Mets won't be able to immediately trade his plaque for low-level prospects.

[metsmarathon]

per bbref, lofton has the 7th most WAR for a player they have listed as a centerfielder, sitting just ever so slightly below the level of average among all hall of fame centerfielders. the only player better than him who is not in the hall is griffey.

bernie williams is down at 27th best cf.

looking at peak value of 7 best years, lofton is 10th best, with only griffey and andruw jones ahead of him among guys not in. again, he is just slightly below the average level of the 18 hall of fame centerfielders.

bernie is 23rd.

now, WAR includes offense and defense, so its easier to look at offense. and as a power hitter, and overall offensive player, williams takes hte slight edge, with a career 59.5 to 54.5 o(ffensive)WAR edge.

fwiw, fangraphs has hte difference between the two players at a similar level, but rates williams more highly offenseive, and therefore more critically defensively. either method you use, it's not close when you look at total career.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

In related news, Piazza a first-rounder in the Hall of Bacne.

[Edgy MD]

Supposedly, Ken Rosenthal just went on MLB telebision and likened the "sabermetric community" to the Tea Party for "hijacking the system" with their "internet crusade" to keep out Jaques Morris.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Well Morris shouldn't have taken all those steroids.

[Edgy MD]

I liked how thousands of tweets went out at once. Apparently "the sabermetric community" = "the unemployed community watching TV during the day."