2013 HOF In Balloting Thread

[Edgy MD]

Ceetar wrote: There are already users in the Hall, and more will go in...

This implies that you know.

[Ceetar]

All I said was there are already users in the hall. That's what I (and others) believe.

And hell, it's more sound than some of the accusations voters are tossing around. Rather admit a billion users than keep one innocent person out, whereas most voters don't even have a firm stance on what they want out of this situation, but it's on them and "well, maybe the dust will settle and we'll know more about what to do" doesn't cut it. The rules put in a 5 year "dust settling" period. It's over. Get off the freaking fence or turn in your voter card.

[Edgy MD]

Ceetar wrote: For some players. For others, whatever let 'em in. The only way I buy any moralizing about PEDs is if a writer simply refuses to vote any more for players that played after like..1980?

Well, others have different years selected, but several seem to be doing just this.

The opinion stated as fact continues to be disappointing.

[seawolf17]

Then I want them all to turn in the money they earned from every commentary they wrote about the McGwire/Sosa home run chase, and Roger Clemens being a World Series hero in Toronto, and about Mike Piazza's 9/21 home run.

The more I hear these writers bitch about the steroid era, the more I want Barry Bonds in.

[metsmarathon]

pud galvin.

also, there's fairly strong speculation that both ruth and mantle each missed time as a result of a quackish injection of animal testosterone. sheep testosterone for the babe, and some funky steroid/amphetamine mix for the mick.

people'd been using animal balls for a millenium or more, and testosterone was identified back in the late 1800s. nobody used it (or anything like it) in pro baseball until jose canseco? bullshit.

the synthesis of testosterone earned some handy chemists a nobel prize back in '39. it was in use in us sports programs in the 60s, and wide use by the 70s.

maybe galvin and ruth and mantle get a pass for not knowing what they were doing, or trying to do, but i find it impossible to conceive that they would be the only players to try it.

[Ceetar]

Edgy MD wrote: The opinion stated as fact continues to be disappointing.

the only thing disappointing is the arbitrary and sloppy way voters are choosing to vote. They're doing more damage to the image of the game, in my opinion, than Barry Bonds ever did.

[Edgy MD]

There's no reason to scream.

That's, of course, not the opinion I'm speaking of.

[Guest Swan Swan H]

And look at Pud. If that doesn't swear a fella off the needle, why, I don't know what would.

[Frayed Knot]

Ceetar wrote: The writers are waiting for someone to tell them what to do, or somehow do a retroactive blood test for substances on their naughty list.

This implies that the writers are voting as if a solid bloc all with the same reasoning.
But clearly they're not. Some are taking an absolutist 'Steroids = No' policy while others have stated specifically that they don't care. Most are somewhere in between deciding either they'll take each case individually or that their opinions are still evolving.

I may not always like the results but I don't have a problem with the system - and certainly I'm not going to be lobbying for reforms based on the (as yet speculative) outcome from a single year's ballot.

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

Hey, we're having a live chat on the Hall vote tomorrow starting at 1 p.m. and running through the announcement. The debate will be in the comments following this post. We've assembled a pretty nifty panel, if I do say so my self. Includes some very familiar names, because I maintain high standards, of course.

http://www.mlive.com/tigers/index.ssf/2013/01/will_jack_morris_make_the_hall.html

You'll need to create an account to be able to participate. Fear not, it's free, and takes just a moment.

Enjoy.

[Gwreck]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I agree too. Except that I want McGwire, Bonds, and Clemens to never get in. Anyone who has disgraced the game the way that they have should not be enshrined in a Hall of Fame.

What's your position on Gaylord Perry?

[Edgy MD]

Wunnerful.

I don't know how I feel about the roiders. I think they'll eventually get in and that won't upset me to the point where I threaten to walk away from the game or anything. I nonetheless enjoy Clemens getting his comeuppance. But I know that worm always has the potential to turn on Piazza.

I just really don't like Tim Raines on the outside and I think he and Biggio are unambiguously excellent candidates, and I'd hate to see their candidacies hurt by this confusion. Justice delayed is justice denied and all.

[Ceetar]

playing..

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

What, no Fu?

(Fantastic stuff. Yours, Cee?)

[bmfc1]

Nicely done Ceetar.

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

Awesome!

[Ceetar]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: What, no Fu? (Fantastic stuff. Yours, Cee?)

Yeah. photoshop is fun.

[metirish]

Where do the FOX exit polls have Piazza?

[Frayed Knot]

metirish wrote: Where do the FOX exit polls have Piazza?

I don't know, but Karl Rove is vehemently disputing Nate Silver's projections.

[Ceetar]

metirish wrote: Where do the FOX exit polls have Piazza?

Last projection I heard (though granted I think these were only 20-25% released) was maybe Biggio and that's it.

[metirish]

I saw some exit polls that Heyman linked on Twittter....projections for Piazza were at 60%- 65%.....the thinking is he will get in next year.......I mean, this is utter bullshit....so, if those numbers are close was he then punished because he played in that era but we'll let him in next year, but not punished like a McGwire?


Some of these writers must think they are the be all and end all of things.

[Ceetar]

Heyman wants to see what's in Piazza's book.

[metirish]

Ceetar wrote: Heyman wants to see what's in Piazza's book.

Ha!, saw that too.....it's a joke

[Edgy MD]

metsmarathon wrote: pud galvin.

You've certainly got me there. Goat gonads. That's the sort of thing one wipes from one's memory..

[Benjamin Grimm]

Gwreck wrote: Benjamin Grimm wrote: I agree too. Except that I want McGwire, Bonds, and Clemens to never get in. Anyone who has disgraced the game the way that they have should not be enshrined in a Hall of Fame. What's your position on Gaylord Perry?

Even if he hadn't thrown a spitball (and he surely did) I don't know that his numbers would merit election. (As I've said before, my view is that the Hall should be very exclusive.) But I suppose my issue with Clemens and Bonds and McGwire is the disgrace they brought to the game, more than the cheating. These guys gave the game a huge black eye, and that should disqualify them. Their achievements can (and should) be recognized in Cooperstown's museum, but they should not get a plaque in the Hall.

[metsmarathon]

Edgy MD wrote: metsmarathon wrote: pud galvin. You've certainly got me there. Goat gonads. That's the sort of thing one wipes from one's memory..

i suppose it may also be the sort of thing that can get seaed indelibly into one's memory...

[Benjamin Grimm]

So, what time is the big announcement today?

[metsmarathon]

baseball gave itself a black eye - it wasn't clemens or bonds or any player. clemens and bonds just helped wipe away what little concealer was left after the mac and sosa show.

the only reason anyone cares is because home runs are sexy. if the doping in baseball only led to an explosion in stolen bases, nobody would give a shit.

there are no other holy numbers in the american sporting scene beyond ruth's ruthian totals, not even aaron's aaronic sums.

nobody gives a shit about any number ever generated by a football player, season, or career, beyond, i suppose, the over/under. nobody gives a shit about any number ever generated by a basketball player, season, or career, though i suppose wilt's 100-point game may come close. hockey? soccer? track and field? any fucking other sport out there?

bonds and mac and sosa dared pass ruth - blow by him. and for that they are excoriated as putting black eye on baseball.

baseball has suffered many a black eye, and the pugilists have often found ther way into the hall.

ty cobb never gave baseball a black eye? and what of the black eye of segragation? the players and owners who supported and advocated and upheld that shit are in. drinking, womanizing, and self-destroying? hello, mickey mantle. amphetamines? if we must think of the kids who are forced to take steroids to compete, are we really all that cool with them taking fucking amphetamines just to stay in the game? please.

put them in the hall. they reflect and record the state of baseball. they are a product of baseball and of the times. they should not be considered ineligible, but rather they should be considered contextually.

[stevejrogers]

2pm on the MLB Network.

[metsmarathon]

it also clearly helps that steroids made these guys ugly - bulbous, misshapen, over-inflated freaks with ominous veins burting forth from beneath their bad skin - and that the two leaders in teh steroidal clubhouse, bonds and clemens, are raging asshole fuckwads that nobody really likes.